The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Wildcats And Their Development Forming cases, wrinkled necks??Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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HI all, I cut a 338 RUM die down on the chop saw, smoothed it up on the lathe, cut a radius leading into the bottom for makeing shorter cases similar to the 330 Dakota without the expensive dies. My problem is that I'm getting some wrinkles in the neck sholder area when forming. I'm thinking that I have too much lube on the case. If I go in slowly and take it back out and wipe off the sholder area then I get much better results. Is there something else I need to look at? The first day I started, I could run them through in one pass without any problems, but last night I scrapped about 15 cases. I'm trying 300 RUM and 375 RUM cases. If I try shooting the cases with small wrinkles will they just rupture on me? I'm fairly sure the ones with BIG wrinkles will, but what about the small ones? Thoughts? | ||
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Lar, For reforming cases the best stuff I have found is imperial size wax. If you suspect the wrinkles are caused by too much lube try that stuff. Remember that you only need a trace of lube, it doesn't disappear it just gets pushed down the neck into the shoulder and builds up there which causes the dents. Try reducing the lube until just before you get a case stuck  Also, remove the expander so you can tap the case out with a rod if you do stick one. Also, clean out the die in case you have a build up inside it. I've found most wrinkles shoot out. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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 I think Mark has it. The lube I prefere ,However is Bardahl.I do a lot of reforming on wildcats and such and this is the only thin film slimy stuff that seems to work all the time. I haven't stuck a case since I started using it. That's about 6 years now.Polishing your die may help a lot.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I have the Hornady die that seems to be working okay. I just got an RCBS 325 WSM die and it crumples the cases every time I try to set the sholder back even just a little bit. The expander button on the Hornady is soo much better than the RCBS that I don't think I'll ever buy RCBS again if a Hornady die is availible. So what is the currently accepted method for fireing the first round on formed brass? Top pressure or mild pressure? I'm about ready to cut the chamber and put things together. I'll post details after I go shoot it. Hopefully sometime this comeing week. | |||
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Ive had the best results fireforming when I used a medium loading. And if a case has minor dents from overlubing the firforming will take care of that too. Ive also had better luck with seating the bullets well rather than seating them out to the lands. Good luck with your! One shot , one kill | |||
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Years past I shot a25-06 IMP quite a bit. Most of the time I got my cases from firing the factory loaded 25-06 ammo in my rifle. You be the judge if that's a hot or moderate load. Never lost a case on the first firing. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I haven't fireformed tons of wildcats, but I have formed some 244 Durham Mag, (264 to 6mm). After forming the necks I would load 11 grns of bullseye fill the case with cornmeal and top off with a piece of paper towel. Never split a single piece but it didn't burn too clean. | |||
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My problem with cornmeal is even though it fills out the shoulders I still would not get sharp corners until I fired bullets in them, so I just started fireforming with bullets. Accuracy is acceptable for plinking and hunting at 100 yards or so. I also heard that cornmeal could be abrasive to the throat, but I suspect that may be an old wives tale. At any rate, it's a non issue for me anymore. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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I information retrieval balistic of the gauge 244 Durham Magnum is the measurement of the casing is of it casing one can take the base for the fomer thank you | |||
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Just remember that brass should be swadged down a maximum of.30" at a time. If the brass is once fired it wil be harder than virgin brass, you may have to anneal first. I have a .257 wildcat that is based on the 300 RUM, however it is shortened 2/10th". I have to use 6 forming dies to get where I want. I scrapped a lot of cases in the beginning before everything settled down. I have an excellent article in making wildcat brass if youy're interrested. As far as cornmeal, that WILL add wear to the barrel. You can chamber your formed case in the rifle with an interferrance fit (I can explain it greater detail if you're interrested) and fire form with bull's eye only and get sharp shoulders with less barrel wear. | |||
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Lar45: I have been making 22 Jet cases from 357 Mag, Latley, and I have been having the same experience as you. Here are a couple of things that I have found will cure these problems. Too much lube will certainly leave dents, like the other guys have said they will mostly disappear when shot. Have you cleaned out the lube relief hole in the die? A paper clip or straight pin will do the job. If that hole plugs up, it will lead to dents. Annealing the cases is a must. On the Jet forms, if I don't anneal the parent 357, they all crack in the shoulder to neck junction about 50% of the time, and when I shoot the cases that have not been annealed, they crack on the 1st firing about 50% of the time. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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Howdy 257 just for the record, swaging only gets larger, drawing gets smaller (sounds like a little picky thing, but it's actually like "welding" vs "grinding") It's not very probable that cornmeal will add wear to the barrel, at least appreciable wear, in that the corn meal, even burnt, is cooler and softer than the powder (burning or not) Glenn, trim the cases roughly 1 shoulder length too long, rough form them, fire form with bullseye and cornmeal then final size them... amazing how easy... I honestly have not lost ONE case on the AR rounds from roughing to fireforming (knock on wood) jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The Random House Dictionary of the English Language defines SWAGE #5.to reduce or taper(an object),as by forging or squeezing. WC | |||
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machining terminology, not general use english I'll post you a quote from corbin, a gent that knows just a bit about swaging and drawings, as well as a fantastic gneral info like on swaging bullets
http://www.swage.com/ebooks/hb-8.htm btw,
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=swage not trying to be a jerk, just trying to info.. with humor, random house (as well as every other dictionary) has exactly the same def for ravel and unravel!! jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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You focused on the word swaging and not on the dimension? .30"? Bit much ; don't you think?  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Neither,was I trying to be a jerk. My intent was to show that swaging dies could be used for diameter reduction as well as expansion. http://www.efunda.com/processes/metal_processing/swaging.cfm A goodly portion of my 40 years in employment were spent as a Toolmaker.My work was mainly building and repairing dies,all types. WC | |||
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To "swage" or to "draw"... I'm not trying to get into a debate. I was just trying to help the gentleman with his problem and sharing my experiences with brass and fireforming. We all have methods that are effective and I'm sure all of us asked another person for help when we were first starting out. | |||
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Persoally I think Corbin erroniously generalized for his own procedures in bullet making. Focusing then on bullet making by Corbin and using the term SWAGING is like putting on blinders to the rest of the metal moving world. And really with respect to the intent of the thread , who cares?  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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No kidding! WHat were you thinking .257? Also, its 2/10ths not 2/10th. Get it together! If you can't offer something constructive maybe you should stick to SWAGING bullets......bonehead.  IV minus 300 posts from my total (for all the times I should have just kept my mouth shut......) | |||
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Stick to what you know, you don't even wildcat! Your idea of wildcating is changing primers...Yep, stick to what you know... | |||
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You can change primers???? WWWWHHHHHAAAAAATTTTT????? Are you nuts! Mongoloid. IV minus 300 posts from my total (for all the times I should have just kept my mouth shut......) | |||
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Sweeeeeet! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Wildcats And Their Development Forming cases, wrinkled necks??
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