Perhaps not all that furious but it sounded catchy. All of these are meant for use in short action rifles, originally designed for use in the AR-10, but they work quite well in bolt guns as well. Short stiff actions should offer good accuracy potential, and for the not-so-weak-at-heart perhaps a good scout rifle or the last ditch back up ...(an AR-10 spitting out 8 500 grainers from one mag should make even the most determined bull elephant have second thoughts)



Shown are

- bottom magazine (old style DPMS LR) - .500 Phantom with 168 SMK in sabot. Cartridge main purpose to fire .50 BMG bullets from unmodified mag at subsonic velocity. Able to launch 975 gr bullet at 1100 fps with surprising accuracy (moa at 500 yards has been mentioned)

- top magazine (AR-10) - .450 Rhino with 300 gr Barnes X Spitzer. 24" barrel, about 2700-2800 fps with moderate pressure. Case is a modified .500 Jeffery, with same rim as the RSAUM ... which also fits the WSM bolt

In the row left to right

.338 Rhino with 200 gr CT BST. 24" barrel about 2900-3000 fps

.375 Rhino (no bullet shown) with 260 gr Nosler BT around 2750 fps

.416 Rhino (no bullet shown) with 400 gr Nosler Partition around 2300 fps

.470 Rhino (no bullet shown) with 500 gr Swift A-Frame around 2150 fps

All from 24" barrels with moderate pressure and unmodified magazines (2.8" overall loaded length). The 20 rounder will hold about 8 of these little gems

What? That little thing all the way on the right? Nope, not a .50 BMG case, bigger, and foreign. Totally different project.....

So any of these to your liking??

Edited to remove UBB code from other source

Looks interesting Marty. Got any case dimensions? Who developed these, I haven't heard of them before?

Cobra -

They are essentially shortened .500 Jeffery cases, necked to different calibers, with the same shoulder location and angle for all of them, just shorter necks. Dimensions are proprietary to our project sponsor, for whom we developed this round. That is also the reason why you had not heard of them before, this is their debut ...

Marty, are these just WSSM cases with a short neck, then? About 60 gr. of case capacity? Dutch.

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch:
Marty, are these just WSSM cases with a short neck, then? About 60 gr. of case capacity? Dutch.

Dutch, nope, MUCH bigger. WSSM are only 1.5" long, the WSM are the 2.0" long but measure "only" 0.55" at the base. These big boys are 0.62" at the base. For comparison, the 338 WSM holds 76 gr water, the 338 RUM holds 111.0 gr water, the 338 Win Mag holds 86 gr water. The 338 Rhino holds 95 gr water but has the length of the 338 WSM. So the case capacity exceeds that of the Win Mag, the length is that of the Short Mag .... giving performance just under the Ultra Mag. The Rhino rim is a standard mag, however, you could form them from Jeffery brass (we have brass made) and have the not-quite-as-rebated rim same size as the Rigby .... also posting on this over in the big bore forum, they are intrigued with the 470 version as the short stubby is putting forth the same numbers as the 470 NE and close to 470 Capstick ....

Edited to add: The WSM cases are based on the .404 Jeffery, the smaller sibling to the .500 Jeffery or 12.7 Schuler. While the same monicker, much larger case.

Dutch,
these's aren't even close to wsm/wssm cases.
the wsm and rum are formed basically from the 404 jeffery, which is a SLIGHTLY rebated case with a .530 casehead,

the 500 jeffe has a HUGELY rebated rim, and that rim is .580... the body is like .610.. i am just being to lazy to walk over and measure some 500's, so this is from memory.


for example, the 500 phantom, if on a 404 based case, would have a "shoulder" of a larger diameter than the case wall... accounting for brass thickness.

in short, no, these arent even close to the wsm/rum/wssm/rsum line, other than the rim diameter being cut down to .530

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

for example, the 500 phantom, if on a 404 based case, would have a "shoulder" of a larger diameter than the case wall... accounting for brass thickness.
jeffe

The Phantom is the shorter version of the Rhino (or actually, as the Phantom came about first, the Rhino is the longer version of the Phantom), therefore both are based on the larger .500 Jeffe case, with the 0.619" base diameter. The .458 SOCOM is based on the .50AE, however, and mimics the .404 Jeffery in that it has a base diameter of 0.543"

Ain't this fun? And you wonder why the Mrs. just shakes her head in confusion when I try to explain it to her.....

Marty,
i think you might have misunderstood me.. i said IF it was from the 404 (wsm parent case) rather than that it IS from the 500 jeffe... hmm, wonder how i know that?!?!

hell, i need to just order my a .475 barrel from bauska and be done with it.

thinking 20" on a 98... or a mexican mauser...

like 8#... shooting pistol bullets at 2000fps...

should be a fun hog carbine

jeffe

Jeffe -

Nah, didn't misunderstand, just trying to add more confusion.

20" barrel, 55Kpsi, 325 Hdy HP/XTP seated 0.335" deep, 2600 fps .... thump them hogs

yup, 2600 fps, about double the energy of a .308 Win ....

am i to assume two down in a standard rifle magazine? single stack/center feed only or can these be fed from a standard box?
just curious as it would make an interesting DM gun in the 700 with the 10 round military conversion.....

woofer

Not sure how they do in a standard box, will test in a Rem700 Friday. Perhaps Jeffe can tell as his shoots the parent case. Best I can tell center feed, single stack. In the AR-10 box, they can move a little (stack and 1/3 or so) but center feed, 20 rd M14 mag will hold 8. Yup, should do well for a DM .... that is what we are targeting with the 338 version. 90% of the Lapua Magnum in an AR-10 package. 8 rounds in unmodified mags. Externally hard to tell apart from an M-16 DM version at distance - no tell-tale as to which of the shooters is the one laying down the hard hitters.

Marty,
I don't know the depth of the DM mag, but as the jeffe is .620 in diamter, 2 rounds, single stack, would be 1.24" plus follower and spring.. call it nearly 2" in most mags.. which is around the depth of most .473 round mag.. and most .473 mags are around .650 (iirc).. then yeah, one could probably get 2 down single stack in a standard mag...

depending on the mag, MIGHT get 2 down and load the third while closing the bolt.

anyone got a .475 barrel they want to part with?

jeffe

Jeffe, I got tired of waiting for my .475 Bauska barrels and orderd from Montana. I called Bauska last week to ask about them and I guess my order got misplaced, so they are sending me a .550 and .510 blank instead.

My question is, can I get the 475 Rhino to function in an AK?

Glen,
marty will ahve to answer that.. my thoughts are that this is designed to function in a 308 sized action, not a x39 action. Perhaps a siaga in 308??

Great news on the barrels though, that you are getting a 550!!!

what ya gunna do with it?

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:
My question is, can I get the 475 Rhino to function in an AK?

In a standard AK-47 rifle, nope. In some of the variants that use a similar receiver, perhaps. First off, we need a bolt capable of accepting the magnum rim size. This limits us fairly quickly to either the Saiga size actions, or perhaps the Dragunov size actions.

Then there is the magazine issue. The Rhino is meant for a loaded length of 2.8", suggesting you use a Draggie ... the rounds would fit the magazine (they make a 308 version) as well as the bolt.

Essentially an oversize AK, it could be made to work. You would need an RPK gas block and custom barrel.....

But again, not in the standard AK action ....

I've got a Brno 98 action that's been sitting around for awhile. I'm thinking the express version looks to be the most practicle. I do have a M-17 Winchester action in a box, but I think it would be better as a 375 RUM. The guy in town still has a couple more enfield actions in the $100 ish range if anyone is interested. I think one is a winchester and another is an Eddy that has been professianly heat treated.
email me at idahobronco@aol.com if you want a phone number for him.

Hi Marty

nice works , and funny things , that will fun on Xp repeater with Sako extractor

good shooting

DAN TEC

Marty,

What might I expect from a 300WSM opened up to 423. Would this get me 404 Jeff numbers?

Roger QSL

roger,
that would be more or less the 416 jamison, and yeah, you could get 404

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
Marty,

What might I expect from a 300WSM opened up to 423. Would this get me 404 Jeff numbers?

Roger QSL

Another way to look at this one is the 458 WSM by John Noveske. Look at his numbers and take off a few fps for the smaller bullet ...

Jeffe and Marty,

Thanks for your responses.
I've been watching John's workups on the 458 Noveske. Very close to what I will do. He has told me he will be doing the 500 grainers as his next loading. Hope he achieves the 2150 with those slugs. Havn't seen too much from him in the past months, as he has been working on a building project.
The 404,(423) should also make for a very nice heavy short round. Has a little likeness to the old Jeffery. Nostalgia, I suspect, getting the best of me.HI

Again, thanks

Roger QSL