While the .375 Dakota is based on a shortened .404 Jeffery case to 30/06 length, are their currently any .375 wildcats based on the 416 Rigby case also shortened to 30/06 length?

Does anyone think this would be a worthwhile wildcat?

Performance wise, same as .375 Weatherby or a bit more?



Michael.

Sounds like a decent wildcat and should produce something like a 375RUM, or a tad more, in a 30-06 magazine.

You can go 2.6" (like 300WM) to 2.65" with the case in the 30-06 action length. Get a fast twist in case you want to use longer bullets. I would recommend 10" twist.

Good luck.

I designed a couple .. well, doodled on some cad software about them --

the short answer is "full length, and improved" ? yes, the 378 weatherby -- that is your top performance "what can i do with a .375 in a 416 case" answer -

somewhere i have a reamer for a 416 rigby 2.5" that could be reground to .375, if i cared to -- but i also didn't build the 375 AccRel because that space is SO crowded --

IIRC my case volume estimates wound up with 3% of the now 375 remington -- at 2.5" case

why 2.5? most .375 and up "big bore" have the grove about 0.8 off the nose, which takes us to 3.3", leaving some wiggle room .. most of my big bore cases are right at 2.55 --just for that TINY bit of extra capacity -

you would wind up with about 110-115gr H2O capacity from a 2.5" rigby - though unless you just hate belts, the weatherby case seems to be more common in the US

the 338-378 weatherby has a capacity of about 125, the 375 weatherby about 97

Can it be done? sure -- is it any practical improvement over the 375 ruger, the closest length and caliber cart? Nah, not the $1500 for reamers, gauges, barrel, brass, gunsmithing, and dies ..

Sorry mate, it's not been done, as far as I know, but its be blanketed

I fiddled with the Lapua, Rigby, Weatherby 378 and 505 Gibbs cases, full length, blown out and shortened, from 375 to 50 cals with Load from a Disk software.

What's those saying's..."There's No replacement for displacement"..."Big dogs bite HARDER"..."There's NO substitute for CUBES"...etc.

The only way I could get a 375 cal wildcat above the already available offerings was to use the Gibbs case and as Jeffe said it's cost PROHIBITIVE...a case with ~175 plus gr H2O, if you stretch it every which-a-way, you run into diminishing returns with available powder selections very quickly...not to mention the recoil factor. ...but you DO have bragging rights for certain.

If you got/want more hair...get a bigger cal...bullet selection becomes an issue also...although you would get higher BC's as weight/bullet length goes up.

Good hunting

Many thanks gents for the advice.

More curiosity than anything else. Going to stick with the 375 Ruger on a Pre 64 M70. Toying with the idea of getting a longer magazine box / longer throat to get a bit more velocity after reading Atkinsons post on doing the same with his .338 Winchester Magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
Toying with the idea of getting a longer magazine box / longer throat to get a bit more velocity after reading Atkinsons post on doing the same with his .338 Winchester Magnum.

Note:NOT picking a fight with Ray - he and I have this settled -

here is the rule of thumb, proven by decades of truth and "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"

AT THE SAME PRESSURE, same barrel settings
The (all in percents) gains in velocity is 1/4 of the gains in capacity, unless comparing RADICAL (not "improved") changes in case design.

if you increase case capacity 10% you get (10/4) 2.5% increase in vel --

So, a 110 grain H2O case2 will have a 2.5% increase in vel

So, in a 2500fps 375 case to a larger, a 10% larger case would be SIXTY-TWO.5 FPS faster --

2500 vs 2562.50 --- for $1500

lengthening the throat (I have done this, so has weatherby and winchester) CAN allow hotter loads if used in a shorter throat

BUT -- the neck is literally the smallest part of a case -- you can prove the gains yourself -- take a 375 HH case, will the case with water to the bottom of the neck, and weigh it ...

then fill to the top of the neck, and weigh THAT ---

find the difference, and cut that 50% - THAT is your possible case increase, assuming you are willing to go at or less than 1 caliber bullet insertion ...

then determine the percentage difference in that by case volume, and DIVIDE by FOUR --

that will be your real world gain for a long throat, at the same pressure -

let's assume you get FOUR% -- you get 1% gain in vel

now, the good news, is that this is only about $150 for a throater - for less than the SD of some loads gains ...

and you get the downsides for free -- hot loaded XXX cart, which will blow primers in a normal chambered round, won't fit in a normal mag, and, frankly, nil gains

i got around all this by finding what a HOT loaded top of the chart, ugly pressure, and backing off to something more realistic, and pegging my rounds in the lower part of the top quarter, as "that last 100fps is REALLY expensive in terms of pressure" -- i say this A LOT ...

jeffe

Its a 375 Wby without a belt..so is the 416 Wby. You can make 416 Rigby cases by turning the belt off a 416 Wby..

IMO the sole purpose of a wildcat is to create something that we don't have and that would darn hard to do these days.

Yes it has been done pre internet ,375 IH magnum.

Tacticool .375 Chey Tac (416Rigby-338Lapua-375 Chey Tac)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.408_Cheyenne_Tactical

There's the: 35 and 400 Whelen
on the '06 case. Any such .375 would be just in the middle of those. Don't sound like much of a big deal from this angle.

George

A friend of mine did one using 9.3 projectile in the 416 Rigby called the 366 DGW. 286 at 3000+ I guess. Don't really get it but whatever.

This post is back asswards, How about a 416 or a 375 Ruger case, but that is or about to be a standard caliber..The 375 Ruger and H&H are about as good as it gets IMO,at least for hunting DG..

As the old saying goes,"If it ain't broke,don't fix it." I have been a fan of the 375 H+H for many years.

Norman,
How could anyone challenge that..Im in your camp..

Today wildcatting is to have something different that nobody else has, damn hard to do if you use ballistic charts correctly..Wildcatters have always made great claims, but few survived over time, some did however, an those few made great strides in calibers available today. IN fact they about cleaned the slate, filled the basket so that now we shoot for something different, not something useful..

Lazzeroni has a 375/416 Rigby - he calls it the Lazzeroni Saturn.

I probably have the first one he built for me - he did not even have brass for it - supplied me with 416 brass which I formed into 375.

Fantastic cartridge - hunted with it using 300 grain Barnes bullets at 3140 fps.

Not very good penetration, due to the very high velocity.

We found 2700-2800 fps gives the best penetration with these bullets.

AGAIN...it don't matter WHAT the 'cat is, whether it "beats" or is no fugging good...be glad there are folks that have the "curiosity bug" crawling all over them, otherwise WHERE would we be, cost not a factor? We WOULDN'T HAVE a BUNCH of commercial cartridges we have available today and I wouldn't have a rack full of those AI 'cats including my own 50 cal Rigby...and all those other "GEM'S that have been learned over the years that increase the efficiency of "standard ol'" everyday shooters.

Today with almost all the slots filled it is difficult to come up with a 'cat that hasn't "alreaybeendone"...that quest for the "perfectly designed and 100 % efficient" cartridge for whatever part of this sport you like will never stop...I HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally I'm finding it difficult to come up with a 'cat that hasn't been done or that I haven't done/have in my rack or looked at to do...BUT I did find one I'm doing now...so Michael...keep looking and dreaming, there still is a few slots yet to fill...the 44 cal slot seems to be a bit thin.

One good thing about today's 'net...you have the ability to research whatever 'cat you are looking to do...on forums and offerings like Ammoguide and reamers/dies relatively cheap compared to yesteryear...that can/will answer your questions.

It really shouldn't matter to anyone, if anyone likes or dislikes whatever commercial/home grown 'cat is developed...if YOU don't like it DON'T BUY IT...vote with your pocketbook...let the other guy have all the fun while you "Grinch" it.

Good Hunting and Merry whatever

I think A-Square had a 3.4" OAL 375 based on the 378 case. So basically the same, not with a belt

O.K. once again I have to bring up my interest over the past few years of Ross Seyfreid's idea on the 30-416 A.I.that will push a 180G. pill @4000 MV. Yeah,yeah,yeah,I've heard all the negatives yet that project still intrigues me.Necking down a 416 to a 30 is daunting so why not neck down a 338
Lapua to 30 + save $900.00 on the case form dies.This is like any other stupid quest;just because.I suppose if we did not have unusual projects in mind we'ed go bonkers.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Lazzeroni has a 375/416 Rigby - he calls it the Lazzeroni Saturn.

I probably have the first one he built for me - he did not even have brass for it - supplied me with 416 brass which I formed into 375.

Fantastic cartridge - hunted with it using 300 grain Barnes bullets at 3140 fps.

Not very good penetration, due to the very high velocity.

We found 2700-2800 fps gives the best penetration with these bullets.

Saeed,

I think the Lazzeroni is a few thou smaller on head size than the 416 Rigby and to stop brass being made from 416 Rigby.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Lazzeroni has a 375/416 Rigby - he calls it the Lazzeroni Saturn.

I probably have the first one he built for me - he did not even have brass for it - supplied me with 416 brass which I formed into 375.

Fantastic cartridge - hunted with it using 300 grain Barnes bullets at 3140 fps.

Not very good penetration, due to the very high velocity.

We found 2700-2800 fps gives the best penetration with these bullets.

Saeed,

I think the Lazzeroni is a few thou smaller on head size than the 416 Rigby and to stop brass being made from 416 Rigby.

I am not home.

When I get back next month I will check if a Rigby case will firbthe bolt.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I am not home.

When I get back next month I will check if a Rigby case will firbthe bolt.

It would fit the bolt but sizing die would be the issue.

Jimmy Sloan, designer of the commercialized .338 Norma Magnum, designed a - for lack of a better term - .375/338 Norma Magnum. I almost purchased a finish reamer and gauges about 8-9 years ago from PT&G.
The case is a 63mm improved case originally using either the 416 Rigby or 338 Lapua Magnum as the parent case.