I had a 6.5 Gibbs built a couple years ago, smith was a guy named Ray Romain, 1K BR smith from pa.
His instructions were to fireform with 54 gr of H4831 and a 140 gr bullet in rem cases, then load up 62 gr of re22 and a 140 for a hunting load. well this rifle loses the pockets the first full power round. He says his gibbs rifles shoot a 140 just over 3300 fps with this load and a 30" barrel. Darrel Cassel backs him up with quotes of 3340 fps with 62 gr re22 and a 140 a-max.
my rifle is an 8 twist (just as darrels is) with a 29.5" kreiger (darrels is a Hart) now, darrels stated in an article that his win cases had been loaded 5 times. I can't seem to get any case life at all if I run a 140 over 3100 fps.
I've had the same results with H4831, IMR 4831, IMR 4350, H1000, and IMR 7828, if I break 3100 fps the case is trashed.
early in the summer I remembered that darrels rifle was throated for a 155 smk (discontinued) seated with the base of the bullet at the base of the neck, so I had my throat lengthened by .100" took a fireformed win brass and loaded it with 61 gr of re22 and fired, loaded and fired, etc, the case lasted 5 rounds before the pocket was unuseable. loaded about 30 rounds the same and recently reloaded them a second time, fired 2 rounds on the second loading and both pierced the primer. I know I'm way overpressure but what I'm looking for is the reason why this rifle will only shoot 6.5/06 velocities with that much more capacity, is it bore diameter ya think? the cut rifled kreiger? what makes a barrel that slow? and would going to a slower powder change anything? say retumbo, or re25, even have some WC872 I could try.
Ray romains told me it would speed up as it broke in, anything to this? if so shouldn't it have happened within 400 rounds?
Sorry for the long post but just trying to figure out whats up with this rifle, it shoots anything well but just seems very slow.
RR

Wow, where to begin.

I shoot a Hart smithed and barreled Rem 700 6.5/284 with a 27" 1 in 9 twist, neck is .294.

Best accuracy is at 3,000 ft/secs with 140/142 grain weights. The 284 case approximates the '06 for case capacity and the Gibbs is a tad more yet, so my loads of 52.5 grains of IMR 7828 or 52 grains of R22 are way below your Gibbs loads. The interesting aspect is the .264 Magnum will struggle to achieve the 3,300 ft/sec range with 140's also, though you have the advantage of the 30 inches of barrel.

The one thing which I feel you may be overlooking is that the other players may be using MOLY COATED bullets and that's why they get the speed and the lower pressures.


I do think that throating is an important aspect of the prssure development and as such agree that a brokin in barrel should be slightly more forgiving, but faster??? Pressure is what produces velocity, less pressure = less velocity.
I would not feel safe with a load which may not give more than 2 loadings... pressures can get ya!

3100 with a 140 is 264 mag veloctiy. Rocky only claimed 3125 with a 140 that was using a 26 measured from the bullet. Basically a 29. I shoot my own version a touch bigger let me pull some data together. I have had twin barrels that would give 150fps difference.

OK my 6.5PDK has 3 grs more capacity than the Gibbs. My chamber was cut to give minimum clearance to my brass. Using MRP and a 29" barrel I could hit 3300 but after the 5th firing the pockets were gone. Based on previous pressure testing with that lott of brass I'd estimate 67,000+. I cut back to 26" and get 3240. I have no data with RL22. Canuck told me he gets 3050 with 57grs of RL 22 has hit 3140 with pressure signs. His barrel is 24" I have a twin 26" for my 6.5PDK and the max for it is about 3150.

Major issue I have is telling someone to fireform with 54grs then jump to 62grs. Even if it works in his rifle all are different. As you see yours has pressure issues. Just looked at the Nosler manual. Max load of RL22 in a 6.5-06 is 50.5. The Gibbs has a capcity gain of around 8% 62grs is a 22% jump. 62 is 6 grains more than max listed for a 264 and 150. The 264 is 27% larger capacity.

thanks guys, appreciate the input!
RR

Had one last thought over morning The early lotts of RL22 were fast. On a couple rifles I had worked up loads on with MRP the early RL22 was several grs hottter. With later lotts I've been able to go back to close to my MRP loading. If you have a fast bottle of RL22 you might get pressure at lower loads that keep you from taking full advantage of the bigger case and long barrel. Might try a different lott of powder. But WORK UP TO MAX.

well making some headway, I backed the 140 bergers .020" off the lands and the pockets are holding up fine, 60 gr of re22 runs it 3215 fps with just a hint of flattening of the fed 210's.
will shoot a few groups this week and see how it does.
RR

Ridge Runner,
keep us updated on this, i have a 6.5/.270 that is doing exactly the same thing. i've posted about it on here as well.

an update,
when I had the thing rethroated, I gave instructions to lengthen it .100", I adjusted my seater to reflect it, but the smith failed to tell me that he only lengthened it .075", actualy .073" so I was jammed tight, then I noticed a bit of a headspace problem due to the smith reccomended "O-ring" on my resizer to keep the necks even had compressed.
bumped the charge up to 60.5 gr of re 22, with the 140 bergers .020 off the lands, running 3250 fps and the primers are still round, is keeping within 1/2 MOA out to 700 yards.
so I had to many problems to fix at 1 time, and was getting all the issues confused, so once again, fix it one step at a time, change 1 thing at a time, saves time money and sanity!
thanks guys
RR

RR,
glad you hear you worked this out. I have long stated my opinion that firm engagement causes higher pressure than the offsetting increase in capacity.

Here's my rule of thumb .. .0275 (actually, .025 to .030) off engagement tends to give my my best accuracy, with my most accurate hunting rifle being the exception. It won't shoot work beans anywhere near the rifling... but that's okay, its a 257 robs that is way sub moa with all the bullets I can shoot in it.

Anyway, glad you are getting what, or nearly what, you had wanted. Remember, lots of wildcat "data" is both enthusiastic and was published without a chronograph!