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270-257 WSSM what is achievable with a 130 grn bullet
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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What kinda velocities do you think are achievable with a 270-257 WSSM wild cat with a 130 grn bullet?


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
What kinda velocities do you think are achievable with a 270-257 WSSM wild cat with a 130 grn bullet?


Do you want quickload data? I think the 257WSSM wild cat would be pretty close to the 25WSSM factory round:

https://load-data.nosler.com/l...r-short-magnum-wssm/

And as for the 270, I'll go ahead and say it: 270 sucks. Just go to 7mm and get like 10x the bullet selection:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6521043/m/7191005091


quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .020 of an inch in diameter, 20 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
 
Posts: 871 | Registered: 13 November 2008Reply With Quote
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JPL,

If you can run a quick load I would find that very interesting...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Not to get a big hoohaw going but I've found QL to be a bit "different" many times on the "I wonder..." cartridges I've played with.

Not saying the 270 WSSM wouldn't be an interesting cartridge to play with...it has about the same case volume as the 270 Savage Imp and can use the same short actions.

I think the 270 WSSM would make a fine single shot where you could take advantage of the shorter receiver to add barrel length and have the same overall rifle length, basically adding 4-6" more tube with attendant velos...might work great in the AR platform also except for the 6.8 SPC having it's toe in the door first.

Luck beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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Posts: 871 | Registered: 13 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Isn't it amazing the dust-ups a few thou can bring on...tsk, tsk, tsk. Big Grin Roll Eyes Eeker

If it puts bacon in the pan, I don't care WHAT caliber it is...it's ALL good. tu2 shocker

Last week I ordered a 6.5 Creedmore barrel for my LR-308 from McGowan, dies/140 gr loaded ammo from Midway arrived a few minutes ago...338 Fed or 450 Marlin follows...I'm a happy camper!!!! jumping

Luck beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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I think that the biggest issue/challenge when building WSSM wildcats is running out of magazine length with a lot of bullets.

I have a bunch of 25 WSSMs, really like the cartridge, but wish that Winchester/Olin would make more factory ammo and keep the scalpers from taking advantage of folks.
 
Posts: 993 | Location: Omaha, NE, USA | Registered: 11 May 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 260remguy:
I think that the biggest issue/challenge when building WSSM wildcats is running out of magazine length with a lot of bullets.


???

One of the reasons I use the WSSM is because it gives me plenty of room. I shoot looong pointy 180gr bergers seated above the NSJ and still have plenty of room. Are you sure you're not thinking of the WSM instead of the WSSM?

 
Posts: 871 | Registered: 13 November 2008Reply With Quote
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What action are you using?

The only WSSMs that I've used have been Winchester/USRA 70s.
 
Posts: 993 | Location: Omaha, NE, USA | Registered: 11 May 2005Reply With Quote
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I am considering building an AR-15. Also, looking at 7mm Valkyrie since it has already been invented.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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With a 130 grain bullet you will get around 3000 fps out of a 26 inch barrel, out of a 16 inch, 2677 fps. With a 95% fill rate of IMR 4064
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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Mick,

Thanks!!!!


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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So...Mick and Mike, you have peaked my curiosity. I don't have a 270 cal, never have and it's one of those life's quandaries as I have nothing whatsoever against the 270 anything. I have looked at the 270 WSM in passing and almost bought a Savage 11 just for the action.

I just acquired both an DPMS AR-15 and LR-308 and a couple extra uppers done or in progress...maybe it's time I did a 270 something.

I ran A 54 gr volume case through QL using a 26" bbl and several bullets and powder and got a surprise with the results.

My question to you Mike is...are your velo numbers from an actual 270 WSSM???...what actual bullet and seating numbers???...where did you get your dies???...and how many other bullets have you tried???


The number's, specifically from QL, using the Hornady 270 130 SP #2730, 2.750" COAL, 0.225" seat depth, 49 gr RL-17, 26" bbl, gave 3127fs/58501 psi/2823ftlbs...and the Sierra 130 SP #1830, 2.72" COAL, 0.220" seat depth, 49 gr RL-17, 26" bbl, gave 3125fs/58304 psi/2819 ftlbs.

Going to 16 " dropped the velo to ~2775 +/- a bit.

These are very excellent numbers for such a small case which is basically 20% smaller than the 270 Win. and the pressures are in the 270 Win range.

You can definitely get a couple hundred fs more by going to the 270 WSM (at higher pressures) in the LR-308 PLATFORM but getting 270 Win velos with such a small case is really amazing.

I need to take a closer look at this WSSM case...OR maybe revisit the 270 WSM and have McGowan do me another barrel. Big Grin tu2


Thanks for any info. Smiler

Luck beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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Couple of comments. I am thinking about doing this have not done it yet.

If I do it, I will put it in an AR-15 where the coal is limited to ~2.25.

I am only estimating that velocities will be ~2750 or so with a 22 inch bbl.

My interest is that I prefer big game rounds to start at .264. So I just think it would be cool to have a AR-15 in say 6.5-7mm with a 130-150 grain bullet at ~2750 fps or so


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I think the AR-15 platform would limit the options severely including the pressure and wear characteristics, deep seating and loss of case volume and so forth...no question it could be done but I'm not sure I would like to turn loose 58-60 KPSI in the AR-15 receiver...35-40 KPSI OK.

There are 300 WSW and 325 WSM's and probably several other WSM's listed for that platform but NOT on MY shoulder.

Luck beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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I have more time to respond to this post tonight. First off I use a program called Quick Design which if all the data is entered right, Quickloads can make a somewhat accurate prediction of what a wildcat cartridge can do.


 Cartridge          : .270 Mike Dettorre
Bullet             : .277, 130, Sierra SPBT 1820
Useable Case Capaci: 51.566 grain H2O = 3.348 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 56880 psi, or 392 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

148 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60                  100.0     49.9     3.23    3005   100.0    55955   12839   1.009  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                            99.6     49.7     3.22    3000    99.7    56880   12738   1.007  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  99.6     49.7     3.22    3000    99.7    56880   12738   1.007  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        98.5     49.5     3.21    2939    95.9    56880   12520   1.019  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      98.5     49.5     3.21    2939    95.9    56880   12520   1.019  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52                   94.4     46.3     3.00    2926   100.0    56880   11690   1.028  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11                   96.8     47.5     3.08    2922    99.3    56880   11903   1.022  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                100.0     50.6     3.28    2918    96.4    54971   12499   1.031
Ramshot Big Game                    93.7     47.5     3.07    2916    99.2    56880   11792   1.022  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                    100.0     48.6     3.15    2912    98.0    55520   12305   1.039  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            93.1     44.2     2.87    2906    99.4    56880   11760   1.033  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B                          94.4     44.9     2.91    2896    99.3    56880   11630   1.034  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                  93.9     44.6     2.89    2896    99.0    56880   11679   1.033  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11                        93.9     44.6     2.89    2896    99.0    56880   11679   1.033  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation          93.9     44.6     2.89    2896    99.0    56880   11679   1.033  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                       96.0     46.1     2.99    2894    99.7    56880   11552   1.044  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3                          96.0     46.1     2.99    2894    99.7    56880   11552   1.044  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903                       98.2     46.2     2.99    2888    99.6    56880   11461   1.044  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                            95.9     44.8     2.90    2883    99.3    56880   11284   1.017  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        95.3     46.3     3.00    2883    98.0    56880   11716   1.036  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       90.4     43.0     2.79    2880    99.6    56880   11348   1.034  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355                        98.0     45.6     2.95    2879    99.5    56880   11400   1.040  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031                            93.4     41.5     2.69    2879   100.0    56880   10554   1.035  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H                        90.7     43.1     2.80    2876    99.3    56880   11374   1.034  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516                 91.7     46.5     3.01    2875    98.0    56880   11547   1.028  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9                    91.5     44.9     2.91    2872    99.3    56880   11300   1.029  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6                        90.9     44.5     2.89    2869   100.0    56880   10859   1.047  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data      94.8     46.5     3.01    2868    98.1    56880   11425   1.032  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                       95.7     44.5     2.88    2867   100.0    56880   10850   1.066  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation        96.9     46.5     3.01    2866    96.2    56880   11407   1.012  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50                   95.0     47.0     3.04    2860    96.5    56880   11490   1.032  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208                         96.0     44.3     2.87    2857    98.9    56880   11178   1.024  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET                      96.3     44.3     2.87    2857    98.9    56880   11178   1.024  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                  100.0     49.8     3.23    2857    97.0    50403   12319   1.080
Lovex S062                          94.8     43.8     2.84    2857    99.9    56880   10965   1.042  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            97.0     43.5     2.82    2851    99.1    56880   11016   1.029  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation        98.7     46.6     3.02    2850    97.2    56880   11224   1.022  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron                    98.5     46.2     3.00    2850    95.7    56880   11409   1.023  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540                     93.5     44.9     2.91    2848   100.0    56880   10673   1.037  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                       99.9     46.6     3.02    2846    95.1    56880   11467   1.035  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7                          99.9     46.6     3.02    2846    95.1    56880   11467   1.035  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        96.8     46.7     3.02    2846    95.1    56880   11458   1.035  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                       90.0     41.9     2.71    2845   100.0    56880   10392   1.072  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202                           91.2     42.6     2.76    2845   100.0    56880   10507   1.040  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201                           91.8     42.7     2.77    2844    99.8    56880   10875   1.046  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902                       93.6     42.9     2.78    2836    99.8    56880   10753   1.047  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      100.0     47.5     3.08    2829    97.3    50456   11992   1.096
Norma URP                          100.0     47.0     3.05    2824    97.2    50261   11880   1.082
IMR 4166 Enduron                    97.4     44.3     2.87    2824    95.9    56880   11040   1.028  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation         100.0     47.0     3.05    2823    97.1    50211   11874   1.082
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation        90.4     42.7     2.76    2823    99.6    56880   10569   1.029  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140                     93.3     43.5     2.82    2822   100.0    56880   10121   1.037  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135                     99.4     42.8     2.78    2821   100.0    56880    9899   1.045  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                         100.0     46.5     3.01    2819    96.8    54538   11340   1.059
Ramshot Hunter                     100.0     49.1     3.18    2815    95.0    49381   12064   1.084
Lovex S060                          91.0     42.1     2.73    2812    99.4    56880   10503   1.029  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                          100.0     49.1     3.18    2811    91.8    51530   11799   1.061
ADI AR 2206                         90.3     42.5     2.75    2803    99.6    56880   10351   1.029  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700                       96.7     48.0     3.11    2799    94.8    56880   10803   1.038  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                         100.0     47.0     3.05    2794    95.0    52080   11501   1.081
PB Clermont PCL 518                100.0     49.1     3.18    2790    94.1    48097   11995   1.096
Somchem S335                        91.1     42.4     2.75    2780   100.0    56880    9693   1.048  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                 100.0     46.3     3.00    2778    97.3    45819   11886   1.122
Somchem S365                       100.0     47.3     3.06    2775    99.0    44906   11775   1.132
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation       100.0     48.3     3.13    2774    93.7    50021   11514   1.088
IMR 4350                           100.0     47.3     3.06    2770    93.6    51062   11235   1.074
Vihtavuori N150                    100.0     44.8     2.91    2761    99.7    51527   10539   1.084
Vihtavuori N133                     92.7     40.3     2.61    2761   100.0    56880    9207   1.038  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70                  100.0     50.6     3.28    2758    91.9    45430   12356   1.116
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                100.0     46.0     2.98    2724    98.0    45822   10978   1.124
Hodgdon H4350                      100.0     46.5     3.01    2717    92.6    48179   11004   1.103
Bofors RP4 ~approximation          100.0     47.5     3.08    2712    90.0    46406   11334   1.115
Raufoss RA4                        100.0     47.5     3.08    2712    90.0    46406   11334   1.115
ADI AR 2209                        100.0     47.3     3.06    2682    88.9    44386   11322   1.133
Alliant Reloder-26                 100.0     51.1     3.31    2677    92.1    38879   12685   1.205
Alliant Reloder-19                 100.0     47.5     3.08    2668    89.0    43285   11345   1.151
IMR 4831                           100.0     45.5     2.95    2665    95.4    42896   11133   1.175
Rottweil R904                      100.0     46.9     3.04    2665    88.4    45830   10833   1.126
Somchem S361                       100.0     50.6     3.28    2659    87.5    47180   10682   1.122
Winchester Supreme 780             100.0     50.1     3.25    2650    89.0    44252   10928   1.140
Norma MRP                          100.0     49.6     3.21    2644    88.6    39232   12054   1.202
Bofors RP14 ~approximation         100.0     47.5     3.08    2640    88.5    42306   11150   1.164
Somchem S385                       100.0     48.1     3.11    2624    90.2    41933   11023   1.187
IMR 7828 SSC                       100.0     48.8     3.16    2607    83.8    40328   11326   1.184
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   100.0     48.1     3.11    2588    84.5    41573   10664   1.173
Vihtavuori N560                    100.0     48.6     3.15    2579    82.5    38080   11421   1.220
ADI AR 2213                        100.0     48.1     3.11    2578    83.4    39709   11038   1.193
Raufoss RA15                       100.0     48.1     3.11    2569    85.7    37506   11304   1.232
Alliant Reloder-22                 100.0     48.1     3.11    2569    85.7    37506   11304   1.232
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation       100.0     48.1     3.11    2569    85.7    37506   11304   1.232
IMR 4955 Enduron                   100.0     46.2     3.00    2561    85.6    41574   10283   1.180
Accurate MAGPRO                    100.0     50.5     3.27    2531    79.2    36576   11157   1.246
Alliant Reloder-23                 100.0     46.5     3.01    2509    92.5    34091   11016   1.280
Rottweil R905                      100.0     47.2     3.06    2501    82.1    36355   10556   1.251
Ramshot Magnum                     100.0     51.8     3.35    2500    84.3    36364   10799   1.244
Accurate 3100                      100.0     47.5     3.08    2497    89.7    35844   10545   1.284
Winchester WXR                     100.0     47.0     3.05    2489    83.6    34611   10836   1.275
Bofors RP15                        100.0     47.0     3.05    2489    83.6    34611   10836   1.275
Hodgdon H4831                      100.0     46.2     2.99    2472    81.9    36723   10045   1.244
Vihtavuori N160                    100.0     45.6     2.95    2461    84.0    37239    9705   1.245
Vihtavuori N165                    100.0     47.0     3.05    2453    85.9    35491    9938   1.267
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation       100.0     48.5     3.14    2449    78.0    36118   10029   1.252
IMR 7828                           100.0     46.2     2.99    2437    79.6    33887   10332   1.281
SNPE Vectan SP 12                  100.0     50.7     3.29    2421    78.6    33422   10559   1.288
PB Clermont PCL 517                100.0     50.7     3.29    2415    78.2    33251   10518   1.291
Alliant Reloder-25                 100.0     47.3     3.06    2410    85.2    31422   10696   1.323
ADI AP 2214                        100.0     49.3     3.20    2401    78.0    34133   10011   1.280
IMR 7977 Enduron                   100.0     47.0     3.05    2342    72.2    35925    8637   1.270
Lovex S071                         100.0     45.0     2.91    2335    86.0    29825    9733   1.380
Bofors RP30                        100.0     47.5     3.08    2292    75.6    27897    9946   1.391
Norma MRP 2                        100.0     47.5     3.08    2292    75.6    27897    9946   1.391
Hodgdon H1000                      100.0     47.0     3.05    2251    73.6    29108    9051   1.368
ADI AR 2217                        100.0     47.0     3.05    2251    73.6    29108    9051   1.368
Vihtavuori N570                    100.0     50.1     3.25    2221    64.4    27022    9463   1.427
Hodgdon Retumbo                    100.0     47.8     3.10    2168    71.9    25360    9043   1.448
ADI AR 2225                        100.0     47.8     3.10    2168    71.9    25360    9043   1.448
Lovex D100                         100.0     51.2     3.31    2156    62.8    28113    8037   1.416
Vihtavuori N170                    100.0     47.0     3.05    2137    66.9    25759    8267   1.453
Alliant Reloder-33                 100.0     51.6     3.34    2133    61.7    25051    8823   1.477
Vihtavuori 24N41                   100.0     50.6     3.28    2112    57.9    26610    7868   1.447
ReloadSwiss RS 80                  100.0     51.6     3.34    2075    59.5    23884    8367   1.508
ADI AR 2218                        100.0     50.6     3.28    2066    54.2    24930    7709   1.484
Norma 217                          100.0     46.8     3.03    2051    67.1    21633    8588   1.578
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            93.8     22.2     1.44    2036   100.0    56880    4069   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870                       100.0     49.1     3.18    2025    60.1    22028    8068   1.565
Hodgdon 50BMG                      100.0     48.3     3.13    1959    50.7    22050    7003   1.567
Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 100.0     50.3     3.26    1945    52.2    20055    7567   1.628
Hodgdon US 869                     100.0     50.6     3.28    1944    52.9    21671    6979   1.583
Alliant Reloder-50                 100.0     51.4     3.33    1923    53.8    19410    7668   1.641
SNPE Vectan SP 13                  100.0     48.6     3.15    1897    56.2    19727    6934   1.648
Accurate 8700                      100.0     49.6     3.21    1854    51.7    19573    6350   1.655
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520       100.0     48.6     3.15    1845    52.8    18769    6519   1.683
Vihtavuori 20N29                   100.0     51.2     3.31    1813    49.0    18380    6321   1.693
NC A3502 ,test only                100.0     46.5     3.01    1761    37.1    19165    4861   1.676
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only           100.0     46.5     3.01    1732    39.2    17764    5014   1.728
IMR TrailBoss                      100.0     16.0     1.04    1709   100.0    34568    3042   1.425
ADI AS 25 BP                       100.0     16.0     1.04    1709   100.0    34568    3042   1.425
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only       100.0     46.5     3.01    1275    18.6    10721    2398   2.157
  
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Wow Mick that is cool stuff. If you enter 130 grains for bullet weight will it generate velocities? or do you need to specify a brand of bullet like barnes 130 tsx.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of MickinColo
posted Hide Post
Sorry, it took me a while to figure out how to post it.
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Oh I see it now that is really cool. I didn't expect there to be near those kinda velocities.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of MickinColo
posted Hide Post
QL generates load information for individual bullets, some of that information is the same for different manufactures and sometimes it's not.

QL is just a prediction program not a reloading manual but I love what it does.
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
QL and QD are totally rad...much better than Powley...I have QD also but used data from the 25 WSSM for my numbers so the case volume was higher and used 26" and 16" for the bbl lengths.

There in lies the Rub...predictive, mathematical programing and data overload and the need to actually shoot over a chrono after.

Yes you do have to enter bullet brand, length, BT or not, bullet construction as in monometallic, lead core, "H" mantle type (Nosler Part, etc.), cup and core...EVERY bullet has a "drag resistance" or "shot start" approximate number...every case has a "weighting factor" for straight walled, bottlenecked, overbore bottled neck, and these numbers affect the end result...Muzzle Velocity. I can make the final velo dance a jig by mucking about with those "factors"...but the chrono tells the final tale.

I've found a lot of anomalies, which is good, using QL...that tends to keep my eyes open.

I'm still learning the capacities of the AR-15, but everything I've come across says keep the pressures down as you go up in case rim diameter. The barrel and extension certainly will handle the pressure...all the large cal barrels with case volumes in the 60 gr range and larger rims like my 450 Bushmaster and 458 SOCOM and 50 BEOWOLF all run around 39KPSI or much less...the smaller ~35 gr cases with .378"- .441" rims run 52KPSI AND LESS...just saying...

I still think the 270 WSSM is an interesting cartridge worth looking into but I won't go the 56KPSI+ route without carefully working up no matter WHAT QL predicts...destroying a fine gun isn't worth making a point.


Luck beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of 505ED
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Brass is a problem....I milked out 200 pieces of 243 WSSM for my father in law--before it dried up--Almost impossible to get now...or you pay out the nose from a guy that has cut some 300 WSM down..

Ed


DRSS Member
 
Posts: 2289 | Location: Texas | Registered: 02 July 2005Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
There's that problem too...make your own, pay through the gazoch or secure your brass beforehand...brass is ALWAYS a major problem to solved for/by the Wildcatter. Mad Frowner shocker

Luck beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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