The Accurate Reloading Forums
270-257 WSSM what is achievable with a 130 grn bullet
08 February 2017, 09:26
Mike_Dettorre270-257 WSSM what is achievable with a 130 grn bullet
What kinda velocities do you think are achievable with a 270-257 WSSM wild cat with a 130 grn bullet?
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
09 February 2017, 04:00
jplquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
What kinda velocities do you think are achievable with a 270-257 WSSM wild cat with a 130 grn bullet?
Do you want quickload data? I think the 257WSSM wild cat would be pretty close to the 25WSSM factory round:
https://load-data.nosler.com/l...r-short-magnum-wssm/And as for the 270, I'll go ahead and say it: 270 sucks. Just go to 7mm and get like 10x the bullet selection:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6521043/m/7191005091quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .020 of an inch in diameter, 20 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
09 February 2017, 05:11
Mike_DettorreJPL,
If you can run a quick load I would find that very interesting...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
09 February 2017, 22:38
NONAGONAGINNot to get a big hoohaw going but I've found QL to be a bit "different" many times on the "I wonder..." cartridges I've played with.
Not saying the 270 WSSM wouldn't be an interesting cartridge to play with...it has about the same case volume as the 270 Savage Imp and can use the same short actions.
I think the 270 WSSM would make a fine single shot where you could take advantage of the shorter receiver to add barrel length and have the same overall rifle length, basically adding 4-6" more tube with attendant velos...might work great in the AR platform also except for the 6.8 SPC having it's toe in the door first.
Luck
10 February 2017, 03:21
NONAGONAGINIsn't it amazing the dust-ups a few thou can bring on...tsk, tsk, tsk.
If it puts bacon in the pan, I don't care WHAT caliber it is...it's ALL good.
Last week I ordered a 6.5 Creedmore barrel for my LR-308 from McGowan, dies/140 gr loaded ammo from Midway arrived a few minutes ago...338 Fed or 450 Marlin follows...I'm a happy camper!!!!
Luck
10 February 2017, 04:00
260remguyI think that the biggest issue/challenge when building WSSM wildcats is running out of magazine length with a lot of bullets.
I have a bunch of 25 WSSMs, really like the cartridge, but wish that Winchester/Olin would make more factory ammo and keep the scalpers from taking advantage of folks.
10 February 2017, 04:52
jplquote:
Originally posted by 260remguy:
I think that the biggest issue/challenge when building WSSM wildcats is running out of magazine length with a lot of bullets.
???
One of the reasons I use the WSSM is because it gives me plenty of room. I shoot looong pointy 180gr bergers seated above the NSJ and still have plenty of room. Are you sure you're not thinking of the WSM instead of the WSSM?
10 February 2017, 05:34
260remguyWhat action are you using?
The only WSSMs that I've used have been Winchester/USRA 70s.
10 February 2017, 05:41
Mike_DettorreI am considering building an AR-15. Also, looking at 7mm Valkyrie since it has already been invented.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
10 February 2017, 08:36
MickinColoWith a 130 grain bullet you will get around 3000 fps out of a 26 inch barrel, out of a 16 inch, 2677 fps. With a 95% fill rate of IMR 4064
10 February 2017, 08:45
Mike_DettorreMick,
Thanks!!!!
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
11 February 2017, 00:22
NONAGONAGINSo...Mick and Mike, you have peaked my curiosity. I don't have a 270 cal, never have and it's one of those life's quandaries as I have nothing whatsoever against the 270 anything. I have looked at the 270 WSM in passing and almost bought a Savage 11 just for the action.
I just acquired both an DPMS AR-15 and LR-308 and a couple extra uppers done or in progress...maybe it's time I did a 270 something.
I ran A 54 gr volume case through QL using a 26" bbl and several bullets and powder and got a surprise with the results.
My question to you Mike is...are your velo numbers from an actual 270 WSSM???...what actual bullet and seating numbers???...where did you get your dies???...and how many other bullets have you tried???
The number's, specifically from QL, using the Hornady 270 130 SP #2730, 2.750" COAL, 0.225" seat depth, 49 gr RL-17, 26" bbl, gave 3127fs/58501 psi/2823ftlbs...and the Sierra 130 SP #1830, 2.72" COAL, 0.220" seat depth, 49 gr RL-17, 26" bbl, gave 3125fs/58304 psi/2819 ftlbs.
Going to 16 " dropped the velo to ~2775 +/- a bit.
These are very excellent numbers for such a small case which is basically 20% smaller than the 270 Win. and the pressures are in the 270 Win range.
You can definitely get a couple hundred fs more by going to the 270 WSM (at higher pressures) in the
LR-308 PLATFORM but getting 270 Win velos with such a small case is really amazing.
I need to take a closer look at this WSSM case...OR maybe revisit the 270 WSM and have McGowan do me another barrel.
Thanks for any info.
Luck
11 February 2017, 00:47
Mike_DettorreCouple of comments. I am thinking about doing this have not done it yet.
If I do it, I will put it in an AR-15 where the coal is limited to ~2.25.
I am only estimating that velocities will be ~2750 or so with a 22 inch bbl.
My interest is that I prefer big game rounds to start at .264. So I just think it would be cool to have a AR-15 in say 6.5-7mm with a 130-150 grain bullet at ~2750 fps or so
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
11 February 2017, 05:11
NONAGONAGINI think the AR-15 platform would limit the options severely including the pressure and wear characteristics, deep seating and loss of case volume and so forth...no question it could be done but I'm not sure I would like to turn loose 58-60 KPSI in the AR-15 receiver...35-40 KPSI OK.
There are 300 WSW and 325 WSM's and probably several other WSM's listed for that platform but NOT on MY shoulder.
Luck
11 February 2017, 05:54
MickinColoI have more time to respond to this post tonight. First off I use a program called Quick Design which if all the data is entered right, Quickloads can make a somewhat accurate prediction of what a wildcat cartridge can do.
Cartridge : .270 Mike Dettorre
Bullet : .277, 130, Sierra SPBT 1820
Useable Case Capaci: 51.566 grain H2O = 3.348 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 56880 psi, or 392 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
148 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60 100.0 49.9 3.23 3005 100.0 55955 12839 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 99.6 49.7 3.22 3000 99.7 56880 12738 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 99.6 49.7 3.22 3000 99.7 56880 12738 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 98.5 49.5 3.21 2939 95.9 56880 12520 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 98.5 49.5 3.21 2939 95.9 56880 12520 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 94.4 46.3 3.00 2926 100.0 56880 11690 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 96.8 47.5 3.08 2922 99.3 56880 11903 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 100.0 50.6 3.28 2918 96.4 54971 12499 1.031
Ramshot Big Game 93.7 47.5 3.07 2916 99.2 56880 11792 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 100.0 48.6 3.15 2912 98.0 55520 12305 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 93.1 44.2 2.87 2906 99.4 56880 11760 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 94.4 44.9 2.91 2896 99.3 56880 11630 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 93.9 44.6 2.89 2896 99.0 56880 11679 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 93.9 44.6 2.89 2896 99.0 56880 11679 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 93.9 44.6 2.89 2896 99.0 56880 11679 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 96.0 46.1 2.99 2894 99.7 56880 11552 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 96.0 46.1 2.99 2894 99.7 56880 11552 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 98.2 46.2 2.99 2888 99.6 56880 11461 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 95.9 44.8 2.90 2883 99.3 56880 11284 1.017 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 95.3 46.3 3.00 2883 98.0 56880 11716 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 90.4 43.0 2.79 2880 99.6 56880 11348 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 98.0 45.6 2.95 2879 99.5 56880 11400 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 93.4 41.5 2.69 2879 100.0 56880 10554 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 90.7 43.1 2.80 2876 99.3 56880 11374 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 91.7 46.5 3.01 2875 98.0 56880 11547 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 91.5 44.9 2.91 2872 99.3 56880 11300 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 90.9 44.5 2.89 2869 100.0 56880 10859 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 94.8 46.5 3.01 2868 98.1 56880 11425 1.032 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 95.7 44.5 2.88 2867 100.0 56880 10850 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 96.9 46.5 3.01 2866 96.2 56880 11407 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 95.0 47.0 3.04 2860 96.5 56880 11490 1.032 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 96.0 44.3 2.87 2857 98.9 56880 11178 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 96.3 44.3 2.87 2857 98.9 56880 11178 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 100.0 49.8 3.23 2857 97.0 50403 12319 1.080
Lovex S062 94.8 43.8 2.84 2857 99.9 56880 10965 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 97.0 43.5 2.82 2851 99.1 56880 11016 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 98.7 46.6 3.02 2850 97.2 56880 11224 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron 98.5 46.2 3.00 2850 95.7 56880 11409 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 93.5 44.9 2.91 2848 100.0 56880 10673 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 99.9 46.6 3.02 2846 95.1 56880 11467 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 99.9 46.6 3.02 2846 95.1 56880 11467 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 96.8 46.7 3.02 2846 95.1 56880 11458 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 90.0 41.9 2.71 2845 100.0 56880 10392 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 91.2 42.6 2.76 2845 100.0 56880 10507 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 91.8 42.7 2.77 2844 99.8 56880 10875 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 93.6 42.9 2.78 2836 99.8 56880 10753 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 100.0 47.5 3.08 2829 97.3 50456 11992 1.096
Norma URP 100.0 47.0 3.05 2824 97.2 50261 11880 1.082
IMR 4166 Enduron 97.4 44.3 2.87 2824 95.9 56880 11040 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.0 47.0 3.05 2823 97.1 50211 11874 1.082
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 90.4 42.7 2.76 2823 99.6 56880 10569 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 93.3 43.5 2.82 2822 100.0 56880 10121 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 99.4 42.8 2.78 2821 100.0 56880 9899 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 100.0 46.5 3.01 2819 96.8 54538 11340 1.059
Ramshot Hunter 100.0 49.1 3.18 2815 95.0 49381 12064 1.084
Lovex S060 91.0 42.1 2.73 2812 99.4 56880 10503 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 100.0 49.1 3.18 2811 91.8 51530 11799 1.061
ADI AR 2206 90.3 42.5 2.75 2803 99.6 56880 10351 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 96.7 48.0 3.11 2799 94.8 56880 10803 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 100.0 47.0 3.05 2794 95.0 52080 11501 1.081
PB Clermont PCL 518 100.0 49.1 3.18 2790 94.1 48097 11995 1.096
Somchem S335 91.1 42.4 2.75 2780 100.0 56880 9693 1.048 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 100.0 46.3 3.00 2778 97.3 45819 11886 1.122
Somchem S365 100.0 47.3 3.06 2775 99.0 44906 11775 1.132
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 100.0 48.3 3.13 2774 93.7 50021 11514 1.088
IMR 4350 100.0 47.3 3.06 2770 93.6 51062 11235 1.074
Vihtavuori N150 100.0 44.8 2.91 2761 99.7 51527 10539 1.084
Vihtavuori N133 92.7 40.3 2.61 2761 100.0 56880 9207 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 100.0 50.6 3.28 2758 91.9 45430 12356 1.116
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 100.0 46.0 2.98 2724 98.0 45822 10978 1.124
Hodgdon H4350 100.0 46.5 3.01 2717 92.6 48179 11004 1.103
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 100.0 47.5 3.08 2712 90.0 46406 11334 1.115
Raufoss RA4 100.0 47.5 3.08 2712 90.0 46406 11334 1.115
ADI AR 2209 100.0 47.3 3.06 2682 88.9 44386 11322 1.133
Alliant Reloder-26 100.0 51.1 3.31 2677 92.1 38879 12685 1.205
Alliant Reloder-19 100.0 47.5 3.08 2668 89.0 43285 11345 1.151
IMR 4831 100.0 45.5 2.95 2665 95.4 42896 11133 1.175
Rottweil R904 100.0 46.9 3.04 2665 88.4 45830 10833 1.126
Somchem S361 100.0 50.6 3.28 2659 87.5 47180 10682 1.122
Winchester Supreme 780 100.0 50.1 3.25 2650 89.0 44252 10928 1.140
Norma MRP 100.0 49.6 3.21 2644 88.6 39232 12054 1.202
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 100.0 47.5 3.08 2640 88.5 42306 11150 1.164
Somchem S385 100.0 48.1 3.11 2624 90.2 41933 11023 1.187
IMR 7828 SSC 100.0 48.8 3.16 2607 83.8 40328 11326 1.184
Hodgdon H4831 SC 100.0 48.1 3.11 2588 84.5 41573 10664 1.173
Vihtavuori N560 100.0 48.6 3.15 2579 82.5 38080 11421 1.220
ADI AR 2213 100.0 48.1 3.11 2578 83.4 39709 11038 1.193
Raufoss RA15 100.0 48.1 3.11 2569 85.7 37506 11304 1.232
Alliant Reloder-22 100.0 48.1 3.11 2569 85.7 37506 11304 1.232
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 100.0 48.1 3.11 2569 85.7 37506 11304 1.232
IMR 4955 Enduron 100.0 46.2 3.00 2561 85.6 41574 10283 1.180
Accurate MAGPRO 100.0 50.5 3.27 2531 79.2 36576 11157 1.246
Alliant Reloder-23 100.0 46.5 3.01 2509 92.5 34091 11016 1.280
Rottweil R905 100.0 47.2 3.06 2501 82.1 36355 10556 1.251
Ramshot Magnum 100.0 51.8 3.35 2500 84.3 36364 10799 1.244
Accurate 3100 100.0 47.5 3.08 2497 89.7 35844 10545 1.284
Winchester WXR 100.0 47.0 3.05 2489 83.6 34611 10836 1.275
Bofors RP15 100.0 47.0 3.05 2489 83.6 34611 10836 1.275
Hodgdon H4831 100.0 46.2 2.99 2472 81.9 36723 10045 1.244
Vihtavuori N160 100.0 45.6 2.95 2461 84.0 37239 9705 1.245
Vihtavuori N165 100.0 47.0 3.05 2453 85.9 35491 9938 1.267
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 100.0 48.5 3.14 2449 78.0 36118 10029 1.252
IMR 7828 100.0 46.2 2.99 2437 79.6 33887 10332 1.281
SNPE Vectan SP 12 100.0 50.7 3.29 2421 78.6 33422 10559 1.288
PB Clermont PCL 517 100.0 50.7 3.29 2415 78.2 33251 10518 1.291
Alliant Reloder-25 100.0 47.3 3.06 2410 85.2 31422 10696 1.323
ADI AP 2214 100.0 49.3 3.20 2401 78.0 34133 10011 1.280
IMR 7977 Enduron 100.0 47.0 3.05 2342 72.2 35925 8637 1.270
Lovex S071 100.0 45.0 2.91 2335 86.0 29825 9733 1.380
Bofors RP30 100.0 47.5 3.08 2292 75.6 27897 9946 1.391
Norma MRP 2 100.0 47.5 3.08 2292 75.6 27897 9946 1.391
Hodgdon H1000 100.0 47.0 3.05 2251 73.6 29108 9051 1.368
ADI AR 2217 100.0 47.0 3.05 2251 73.6 29108 9051 1.368
Vihtavuori N570 100.0 50.1 3.25 2221 64.4 27022 9463 1.427
Hodgdon Retumbo 100.0 47.8 3.10 2168 71.9 25360 9043 1.448
ADI AR 2225 100.0 47.8 3.10 2168 71.9 25360 9043 1.448
Lovex D100 100.0 51.2 3.31 2156 62.8 28113 8037 1.416
Vihtavuori N170 100.0 47.0 3.05 2137 66.9 25759 8267 1.453
Alliant Reloder-33 100.0 51.6 3.34 2133 61.7 25051 8823 1.477
Vihtavuori 24N41 100.0 50.6 3.28 2112 57.9 26610 7868 1.447
ReloadSwiss RS 80 100.0 51.6 3.34 2075 59.5 23884 8367 1.508
ADI AR 2218 100.0 50.6 3.28 2066 54.2 24930 7709 1.484
Norma 217 100.0 46.8 3.03 2051 67.1 21633 8588 1.578
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 93.8 22.2 1.44 2036 100.0 56880 4069 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 100.0 49.1 3.18 2025 60.1 22028 8068 1.565
Hodgdon 50BMG 100.0 48.3 3.13 1959 50.7 22050 7003 1.567
Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 100.0 50.3 3.26 1945 52.2 20055 7567 1.628
Hodgdon US 869 100.0 50.6 3.28 1944 52.9 21671 6979 1.583
Alliant Reloder-50 100.0 51.4 3.33 1923 53.8 19410 7668 1.641
SNPE Vectan SP 13 100.0 48.6 3.15 1897 56.2 19727 6934 1.648
Accurate 8700 100.0 49.6 3.21 1854 51.7 19573 6350 1.655
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 100.0 48.6 3.15 1845 52.8 18769 6519 1.683
Vihtavuori 20N29 100.0 51.2 3.31 1813 49.0 18380 6321 1.693
NC A3502 ,test only 100.0 46.5 3.01 1761 37.1 19165 4861 1.676
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 100.0 46.5 3.01 1732 39.2 17764 5014 1.728
IMR TrailBoss 100.0 16.0 1.04 1709 100.0 34568 3042 1.425
ADI AS 25 BP 100.0 16.0 1.04 1709 100.0 34568 3042 1.425
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 100.0 46.5 3.01 1275 18.6 10721 2398 2.157
11 February 2017, 06:03
Mike_DettorreWow Mick that is cool stuff. If you enter 130 grains for bullet weight will it generate velocities? or do you need to specify a brand of bullet like barnes 130 tsx.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
11 February 2017, 06:07
MickinColoSorry, it took me a while to figure out how to post it.
11 February 2017, 06:18
Mike_DettorreOh I see it now that is really cool. I didn't expect there to be near those kinda velocities.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
11 February 2017, 06:26
MickinColoQL generates load information for individual bullets, some of that information is the same for different manufactures and sometimes it's not.
QL is just a prediction program not a reloading manual but I love what it does.
11 February 2017, 07:46
NONAGONAGINQL and QD are totally rad...much better than Powley...I have QD also but used data from the 25 WSSM for my numbers so the case volume was higher and used 26" and 16" for the bbl lengths.
There in lies the Rub...predictive, mathematical programing and data overload and the need to actually shoot over a chrono after.
Yes you do have to enter bullet brand, length, BT or not, bullet construction as in monometallic, lead core, "H" mantle type (Nosler Part, etc.), cup and core...EVERY bullet has a "drag resistance" or "shot start" approximate number...every case has a "weighting factor" for straight walled, bottlenecked, overbore bottled neck, and these numbers affect the end result...Muzzle Velocity. I can make the final velo dance a jig by mucking about with those "factors"...but the chrono tells the final tale.
I've found a lot of anomalies, which is good, using QL...that tends to keep my eyes open.
I'm still learning the capacities of the AR-15, but everything I've come across says keep the pressures down as you go up in case rim diameter. The barrel and extension certainly will handle the pressure...all the large cal barrels with case volumes in the 60 gr range and larger rims like my 450 Bushmaster and 458 SOCOM and 50 BEOWOLF all run around 39KPSI or much less...the smaller ~35 gr cases with .378"- .441" rims run 52KPSI AND LESS...just saying...
I still think the 270 WSSM is an interesting cartridge worth looking into but I won't go the 56KPSI+ route without carefully working up no matter WHAT QL predicts...destroying a fine gun isn't worth making a point.
Luck
11 February 2017, 07:51
505EDBrass is a problem....I milked out 200 pieces of 243 WSSM for my father in law--before it dried up--Almost impossible to get now...or you pay out the nose from a guy that has cut some 300 WSM down..
Ed
DRSS Member
12 February 2017, 09:45
NONAGONAGINThere's that problem too...make your own, pay through the gazoch or secure your brass beforehand...brass is ALWAYS a major problem to solved for/by the Wildcatter.
Luck
