The 450 Marlin necked to .416 would be a shortened 416 Taylor which could retain a usable case capacity of 60 grs h2o if stretched out to a COL of 2.80 inches when using 300, 325 and 350 grain bullets. These have sectional densities of .248, .268 and .289 pespectively. Velocities work out to 2600, 2500 and 2400 fps at 60,000 psi.

Those wanting to use the long Barnes X spitzers could use the Savage 11 short action and go to a COL of 3.1 inches. A 300 WSM base action has the right bolt face and with minimal work to the feed ramp, it should be quite slick. The magazine is fine as is.

The expansion ratio would be the same as the 458 Win Mag, which operates over the same velocity range with AA2230 and bullets of 350 to 400 grs in weight.

For hunting in NA, one would have the velocity and trajectory of the fine 35 Whelen loaded with 200 to 250 gr bullets. A 22 inch bbl would be more than adequate.

Is there room in the market for this type of short action thumper?

would fit with the 416 barnes (45/70 to 416) and 416 alaskan (348 imp, to 416) and somewhat below the (yet to actually be made) 416 jeffe (45 rcbs to 416)

the 60,000 psi is FAR too high.. for leverguns... 45,000 would be all that's reasonable (and that the 450 marlin is loaded to form hornady)

in fact, your are RIGHT there with what i consider to be topish taylor loads, and those should probably be more like 2400, 2300, and 2100 for .400

didn't barness (the writer) neck one down already?

and yep, it would would EXACTLY be a 416 taylor short, if you accept that the 450 marlin is NOTHING but a 458 american 2" with a higher belt, which is a 458 cut down .5", and 458 necks perfectly to 416 taylor, so it would be 1/2 an ince shorter, and less of a round...


going at it another way, it would be a 405 winchester with a .416 barrel... would would be a GREAT idea

jeffe

Jeffe -

Yor're right...this one is strictly a bolt action. I see some 400 gr loads on the accurate reloading board that are a bit over 2400 fps for the Taylor, but those are seated 0.20 deeper than I had in mind for the 450-416. Same for the 335 gr TBBCs. I am giving up 0.40 in case length and getting .020 back with the seating arrangement I am proposing.

Still, I agree that my velocities are high, but more like 92% of the Taylor...this is what you get with the 15% reduction in capacity I think applies here. Probably about 4200 FPE for 2500 fps with the 300 grainer.

The other way to go is to make the 450 into a straight case and stuff it with .475 bullets, allowing the use of the 275, 325 and 400 gr 475 pistol bullets but this gives up the good BCs of the 416s.

Sabot why don't you make up some 45 to 416 sabots or is the caliber change to small to work with.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Sabot why don't you make up some 45 to 416 sabots or is the caliber change to small to work with.

Thanks for the good thought. essentially, this thickness of sabot would need to be anodized aluminum, and my supplier wants a lot of $ for them.

Probably the best way to go is simply to neck up the 300 WSM to .416 and have done with it. This has been done and reamers and dies are out there. Of course, the Lazzeroni Maverick is the same thing with about 5 grs more case capacity. Both of these cases allow for 400 grainers in a COL of 2.80 inches.

In any event, these rounds get you to 5000 FPE and commensurate recoil. Reloader 7 in smaller doses could still make 4200 FPE and cut recoil back to that of the 300 WSM when using 300 grain 416s.

Are you anycloser to going commercial with your sabots.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Are you anycloser to going commercial with your sabots.

I would do it tomorrow if i could get insurance to cover intervention by BATF. They don't like sabots and a general proliferation if the technology in anything but black powder firearms will trigger more evaluation and less tolerance. The general game in gov't regulation of all types is to just say nothing one way or the other and let the risk of intervention drive away investment. They do tolerate the 30 cal to 22 sabots out there, I think because it is nearly impossible to to do forensics on a blown up 22 varmint bullet anyway.

The other flaw is in the existing rifle dies out there. If you use them and wind up with a strong crimp most plastic sabots will blow out sending the bullet down the bbl and occasionally leave the sabot in the bore. Even if you gas check them, accuracy suffers because starting pressures are all over the map. If the neck is properly sized and camfered, a crimp is not necessary...in fact you can't pull the bullets and sabots with an inertial puller.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
going at it another way, it would be a 405 winchester with a .416 barrel... would would be a GREAT idea

jeffe

Nothing wrong with the old .405 with a .412" barrel for that matter! The .416" bore would give one a better bullet selection though; especially in 350 and 400 grains......

BigRx

BigRx,
yes, there's nothing wrong with the 405... but this is the wildcat forum...the fact that there's a jillion more 416 bullets than .411/.412 would make it attractive to me

jeffe