What are your guys' thoughts on these. I would like a 257 wby to be honest with ya'. At the same time I can not seem to shake the wildcat bug. I have been trying to deal with it for over a year now and seem fixed on a quarter bore. The 25-300 was the first to catch my eye but I have heard of problems with pressures with these. Does the 25-284 have the same problem?

P.S. I can't seem to find a 25-300 or 25-270 load on ammoguide.com. Does anybody know if it is listed under another name?

so, i'll be blunt
i did the 257 jls (wsm) .. it is about 100 fps slower than a weatherby..

a weatherby is probably over pressure for me

and a 25-284 is EXACTLY a 25-06 and not a dog in this fight, ever

jeffe

quote:

I can't seem to find a 25-300 or 25-270 load on ammoguide

A 25-270 is the same as a 25-06. Only difference betweent he two cases is a longer neck on the 270. Net powder capacity is the same. With a 25-300Wmag the case capacity will be the same or within 1-2 grs as a 257Wby. Can't imagine why there would be a pressure issue with a 25-300wsm.

A Hawk, Howell, Gibbs will give you a slight increase over a 25-06. A 25-264/7mag and 25-300Wsm will give you about 5-7 grs less than the 257Wby. The 25-300wmag is a 257 Wby with a normal shoulder. Then you jump to something like a 257STW.

A 257-284 gives you less capacity than a 25-06 in a short action and basically the same with a long.

I'd offer two options if you really wanted to chase the 25cal wildcat bug. Look at the SAUM case for a short action or the 300WinMag case on a standard action. The 257WSM has been reported over here as being very sensitive to powder choice ... the lesser capacity of the SAUM case may fix that ... but you wont be knocking on the door of the 257Wby either. The 300WinMag case may get you above the 257Wby and should be fairly easy to put together. The old Royster however looks pretty good for what you get.
Cheers...
Con

Have you thought about a 25-06 AI ?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

I can't seem to find a 25-300 or 25-270 load on ammoguide

A 25-270 is the same as a 25-06. Only difference betweent he two cases is a longer neck on the 270.

Little confusion there, the 270 I was referring to was the wsm not the all time classic winchester.

Found this interesting

http://www.realguns.com/archives/053.htm

I did the 257 WSM thing and was able to match .257WBY ballistics. The problem I had with it was a serious brass flow problem. The case necks needed constant attention. I eventually came to my senses and realized I was working myself to death to save what? 3/8" of an inch action length? I sold mine and built a .257WBY. The Weatherby would be my choice.

Terry

I've been contemplating a 25-264mag with a 40 degree shoulder. Basically a 257 weatherby.

Unless you are looking to have something different, I wouldn't even fool around with the others. Go with a 257wby but have one built with a good action like a model 700 and a Hart, Lilja, or Shilen barrel. Weatherby factory guns look very pretty but Weatherby builds so much free bore into their guns it's a luck of the draw if you get one that shoots well. If you are interested in going one step bigger don't overlook the 270wby. It's my personal favorite and very versatile medium range hunting rifle. A 270wby will push a 130gr pill faster than a 257wby will a 120gr.

@ TC1: Kind of sounds like more trouble than I want to deal with. A Weatherby must be the best choice for right now. Just need to figure out how I want to do it.

@B-23: M700's aren't really my thing. Nothing against them other than my personal preference is for CRF and claw extraction. My father has an M70 in 270 wby and it is one hell of a rifle. I wouldn't mind one like it but it is pretty far down my list since I all ready have a 270 and 270wsm in model 70's.

@ramrod: thnx for that link

GrosVentreGeorge, I'm not a fan of Weatherby rifles. I like the cartridges but the rifles just have no appeal to me.

You can take any rifle set up for any of the belted magnums and use it for a donor. All that's needed is a new barrel.

Here is a picture of the one I did, nothing special. It's a Ruger 77 MKII. It started life as a 7mag and a new barrel was screwd on.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
GrosVentreGeorge, I'm not a fan of Weatherby rifles. I like the cartridges but the rifles just have no appeal to me.

You can take any rifle set up for any of the belted magnums and use it for a donor. All that's needed is a new barrel.

Here is a picture of the one I did, nothing special. It's a Ruger 77 MKII. It started life as a 7mag and a new barrel was screwd on.

Terry

I had that idea about a year ago. A friend of mine had that same rifle and wasn't happy with it. It had hardly been used and didn't want to much for it so I was going to take it off his hands. He then put a hogue on it with the full aluminum bedding and it turned into a tack driver with his 165gr tsx handloads. So now he loves it and I can't seem to find another one like it for the same price.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
so, i'll be blunt
i did the 257 jls (wsm) .. it is about 100 fps slower than a weatherby..

a weatherby is probably over pressure for me

and a 25-284 is EXACTLY a 25-06 and not a dog in this fight, ever

jeffe

So what problems have you had with the 25-300 wsm aka 257 jls?

NONE .. once i started using 270wsm brass, everything was perfect... i just bought a redding set, with neck bushing, as all i did was caliber change, .. though initially i was using wsm cases... dave kiff ground mine the "second" the wsm drawing was released

but boring!

quote:

So what problems have you had with the 25-300 wsm

Based on my playing with the various 257s I just feel the WSM case won't get me there. The following data is my reading from my rifles and the same Chrono. I'm sure there are plenty of higher velocities. I tried to load to appoximately the same pressure.


Looking at some of my data a 257RAI from a 24" barrel gave me just shy of 3000fps with a 115.

A 24" 25-06 gave me 3100. So a 7.8% capacity increase gave me a 3% velocity.

My own 250PDK (like a 25Gibbs) has a 11% increase over the 06 gave 3175 or 2.4%.

A 26" 257Wby gave me 3220. A 32% capacity increase over the 06 plus 2" of barrel gave 3.8% velocity increase over the 06. Adjust for the barrel say 50fps and the gain becomes 2.2%.

So take a wsm case which is about 19% larger than the 06 so you might be talking about 100fps over the standard 25-06. If you want to fool with a wildcat go for it. Speaking from plenty of experience it is a lot of work for a few fps.

quote:

GrosVentreGeorge

I did the 25 WSM thing and it does exactly what it should, its faster than my 25-06 and not quite as fast as a weatherby. It can be pushed as fast as the weatherby but if you do you will have problems with case stretch and brass flow.

Its not a bad little wildcat. Its easy to make, i just neck down 270 wsm's with no problems.

It likes slower powders, mine does well with powders like Retumbo and RL 25. I have a 24" pacnor polygonal rifle barrel and it shoots comfortably at 3550 fps with 100 gr bullets and does 3350 fps with 115 bullets.

Take a look at the 257 STW, 100gr @4000 fps, 115gr 3500 fps, 125gr uld RBBT 3400fps
No fire forming, just neck down a 7mm STW.
Dave
http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=239

Sounds like this might contribute to the thread:


Compare ballistics for these rounds

Mike

quote:

Compare ballistics for these rounds

OK what am I missing when they call the 25-06AI as having greater capacity than the 25Gibbs. A Gibbs will give over twice the gain an AI will.

What I don't like about most all comparisons is evident in this one. Why can't these guys use the same bullet weight for all cartridges. 100gr would have been perfect for all of these cartridges. Personnaly I am a 257Rbts fan and Federal ctg has a new loading with the 100gr Partition & the 100gr Ballistic tip. Both in my opinion are bad asses in my gun. Many 257s are handicapped with less than adequate twists. 120gr bullets need a 1in9 to stabilize properly.Most 257 barrels reguardless of manufacturer are a 1in12 or 1in10. I do know of one that lists a 1in9--Shilen. I am sure the others will at request.
Just my 2 cents
Happy Huntin'
Andy

You need a longer barrel than 26" to relly see the difference between the W'by and the .25-06. Othervise you burn a lot of powder for a small gain. At the same prassure, that is.
Yea, I know I sound boring, but the more I play with fancy rounds, the more sence the old workhorses make...

Bent,

You are right on the money. That is my other argument. What barrel length was used for each cartridge in the comparison. A 257Rbts with a 26 in barrel will suprise the heck out of most folks as far as velocity is concerned. Mine has a 27" and I get almost 3300fps with 100gr bullets. I will admit to using a long drop tube, a case vibrator, and loading the bullet within .025 of the lands. I am considering loading bullets from GS Custom and seeing how they perform. I am sure I will be nicely supprised.
257Rbts fan
Andy

quote:

What I don't like about most all comparisons is evident in this one. Why can't these guys use the same bullet weight for all cartridges...

That's a good question. Short answer is the program chooses the bullet weight based on what's most used in the load data, and for good reason. As the program's author, I'll explain why - please bear with me.

Looking at all load data that's available on the site (using a smart 'weighted average' algorithm), the program calculates an average (1) bullet weight and (2) muzzle velocity. Using these, the program can calculate (3) the average muzzle energy. The values define the basic external ballistics for the round, basded on the real-world load data on the website. Hopefully, it is an accurate profile.


So the bullet weight displayed isn't chosen specifically for each cartridge, it's the result of that average calculation. As such, it reveals some interesting info for a round, like does the round favor heavy or light bullets.

For example, short rounds like .300 Whisper simply can't handle 220 gr. .308 bullets, in fact, even the .308 Winchester doesn't do well with them because the long bullet intrudes too deeply into the limited case capacity for shorter rounds. Larger capacity cases can handle the heavier bullets.

This is clear in this comparison of 4 very different .30 dcaliber rounds...


BTW, this comparison is available at:
http://ammoguide.com/?tool=bcompare&it=450%7c92%7c88%7c86

Mike

Comparing the 300 Whisper to the Mighty 30-378 is assanine. These cartridges have totally different intended purposes. The 300 Whisper is actually designed for 220 grain bullets at subsonic velocities. The others due to case capacity do not lend themselves to subsonic application. Mike this was not a good comparison. A better one would be 300RUSM, 308Win, 300 Savage and 30-06 and 300WSM

quote:

Comparing the 300 Whisper to the Mighty 30-378 is assanine. These cartridges have totally different intended purposes. The 300 Whisper is actually designed for 220 grain bullets at subsonic velocities. The others due to case capacity do not lend themselves to subsonic application. Mike this was not a good comparison. A better one would be 300RUSM, 308Win, 300 Savage and 30-06 and 300WSM

Apologies for the misunderstanding. I was trying to address a specific complaint posted above.

My goal was not to illustrate desirable ballistics, it was to show why the comparison tool chooses different bullet weights to use for comparison for various rounds that have the same bullet diameter.

The specific rounds were chosen because they *ARE* so diverse in performance - the extremes help to illustrate the point.

It may help to actually READ the post instead of just looking at the pictures?

Mike

I like the idea of a 25 built on the SAUM case. I also read that Layne Simpson is building a wildcat on the 270WSM case but he is moving the shoulder back for a longer neck and less powder capacity and reducing the shoulder angle to provide better feeding from a magazine. It all seems like a lot of work for the difference between a short action and a long one but if thats what its all about then so be it. DW

anyone made a .257-375 Ruger yet? just a thought . . . seems it ought to be about as much overbore as a .257 STW (a.k.a. .257 "Hot Tamale") but if you're looking to wildcat "something new" it is to be considered . . .

Troy