As some of you know, I am interested in a low recoil .416 round for genuine certified woodsloafing.

To that end, I've been chatting with several of the folks here at AR about the concept. MickinColorado has been of particular help by running all my fantasies on QuickLoad. Here is part of a PM to one of the regulars here, for you guys to cogitate over.

"My tastes are pretty catholic. Even the guns I have little use for are interesting...and worth playing with just to satisfy curiosity about them. Besides ever so often they surprise me and really turn out to be maybe ugly, but nifty anyhow.

Speaking of that, right now I am considering chambering my spare .416 barrel to a "mildcat" probably no one but me would ever love.

Basically it is .240 Wby (belted 30-06) brass blown out to make a straight-tapered (no shoulder) small diameter belted case especially for 300 and 350 gr .416 bullets...probably mostly cast. The idea is to create a sort of ".416 Belted Whelan".

That way it will headspace solidly on the belt and still fit through a Mauser or Springfield action. (I have a spare vz-24 at the moment.) And I don't think you even have to open the bolt-face for that little brass.

According to QuickLoad,it should give 100% powder burn and 2,100+ fps with a Speer jacketed 350 gr. bullet at 55,000 psi (maybe 47,000 c.u.p.?). Charge being 45.0 grs of AA 2200. Figure 50 fps more velocity with the same powder charge pushing the same weight cast bullet.

I would use it for just N.A. bigger game, and like the fact it would give 5 down in a standard Mauser or Springfield action and one up the spout....a 6-round .416 can never be a bad thing in the bush where the game lives. It's always nice to have a few more rounds than one will ever need when out doing some genuine certified woods loafing...without having them stuffed in "I can't remember which" pocket. And I like the relatively mild recoil obtained by not using a magnum round.

I don't see it as difficult to make feed. My current Springfield's .458 Win Mag chamber is almost exactly the same taper (though bigger around) and feeds flawlessly from my rifle.

Yeh, I know...there is no need for such a .416 chambering, but it isn't to satisfy a need...just to "scratch an itch".

So, you guys picture a classic Springfield or Mauser in that chambering and in your hands as you wander some gentle hills clad in fairly open timber, where deer, elk, maybe some moose, and even the odd bigger Blackie hang out. Whaddaya think? Sound like a fun project to you?

AC

I have a "thing" for 416's. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. that 240 weather by cart. has always been fascinating.

Good luck and keep us posted

SSR

Here's the QL data on it:

Cartridge : 416-240 Weatherby AC
Bullet : .416, 350, Speer MAG-TIP 2477
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch or 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 610.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 55839 psi, or 385 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

82 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 100,0 45,8 2,97 2182 100,0 55353 4409 1,294 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 100,0 47,8 3,09 2157 99,3 55211 4595 1,308 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 96,8 44,7 2,89 2137 100,0 55840 4151 1,329 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 100,0 47,8 3,09 2123 98,2 51607 4623 1,341
SNPE Vectan SP 10 100,0 47,7 3,09 2123 98,2 51509 4627 1,342
ADI AR 2219 100,0 46,1 2,98 2121 99,0 51578 4513 1,334
Hodgdon H335 100,0 48,7 3,15 2117 98,1 50665 4660 1,345
ADI BM2 99,8 47,4 3,07 2108 97,3 55840 4438 1,323 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 100,0 41,7 2,70 2107 100,0 55712 3854 1,323 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 99,0 44,8 2,90 2105 98,2 55840 4337 1,323 ! Near Maximum !
SF-033 fl 100,0 45,6 2,95 2102 100,0 48261 4121 1,371
Alliant Reloder- 7 98,8 42,6 2,76 2094 100,0 55840 3938 1,333 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 99,3 42,9 2,78 2077 99,0 55840 4071 1,327 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 100,0 46,1 2,98 2073 96,7 52046 4401 1,358
Hodgdon H4198 99,9 41,8 2,71 2067 99,2 55840 3967 1,331 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 94,2 38,4 2,49 2051 100,0 55840 3552 1,334 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 100,0 47,8 3,10 2041 95,8 47423 4405 1,406
Lovex D073.4 100,0 47,8 3,10 2041 95,8 47423 4405 1,406
Alliant Reloder-10x 100,0 42,1 2,73 2041 99,9 46150 4148 1,417
IMR 4227 93,1 38,0 2,46 2037 100,0 55840 3523 1,339 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 100,0 43,6 2,83 2036 99,9 50852 3938 1,381
Ramshot TAC 100,0 47,8 3,09 2032 94,2 44735 4557 1,420
IMR 4198 100,0 40,0 2,59 2031 100,0 49329 3783 1,377
Vihtavuori N120 100,0 40,7 2,64 2027 100,0 51773 3505 1,372
Winchester 748 100,0 48,0 3,11 2023 94,3 42416 4619 1,439
Lovex S053 94,9 37,9 2,46 2020 100,0 55840 3361 1,353 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 100,0 48,0 3,11 2012 94,0 42853 4569 1,447
Lovex D073.5 100,0 47,8 3,10 2011 95,1 43824 4428 1,450
Accurate 2460 100,0 47,8 3,10 2011 95,1 43824 4428 1,450
Hodgdon H322 100,0 43,3 2,81 2003 97,6 42479 4301 1,445
Accurate 2015 100,0 43,1 2,80 1992 99,3 43047 4086 1,464

AC

Fascinating.
How difficult would opening the case up, be?
I opened up 30-06 cases to make 375 Whelen, which was easy compared to your effort. Wouldn't there be a high rate of case loss?

Jim

AC

Actually, after I finish playing with the 416/284, I was thinking of trying that next. I have three 240 Weatherbys, so no money for cases. I think it would work perfectly, chambering the same as I did the other. Run in a 240 reamer then a neck and throater.

If you do a search, I think that you will find a bunch of references here on a 411 on the same case. I think there have been a couple of rifles built already. Loading data should be the same, as it would be for the 416/284. Same case volume and essentially the same bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
AC

Fascinating.
How difficult would opening the case up, be?
I opened up 30-06 cases to make 375 Whelen, which was easy compared to your effort. Wouldn't there be a high rate of case loss?

Jim

Possibly, but not necessarily. Depends on the approach taken, and what one starts with. I might start with .240 Wby brass, just to see how I like the cartridge.

But if it works out as the sort of cartridge I want, I'll likely switch to belting my own '06 brass and expanding up from there. As I have quite a few thousands of '06 brass on hand and unused for anything else recently, it would cost little or nothing in expense to work out a reliable procedure with that stuff.

Would be a good way to use up some brass that's in the way, too. I just had to move 4 bushels of it from my shop out into the storage shed yesterday because I kept tripping over it. And I've still got over 1,000 rounds of it on a shelf in the shop....just in case I ever need to make any more .244, .257, .270, 7x57, .280, or whatever other brass from it. It comes in handy all the time, but seems to breed in the dark...always seem to have more of it than the last time I looked...

Anyway, I figure that fireforming will take most of the work away, and most of the loss out of the brass-making. And if a guy was already belting such brass, he could just use the same equipment to belt 9.3x62 or .35 Whelan brass and open that to .416, which should be a piece of cake.

in 423 bullets, it is the 425 fossdal
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/a...BXhLDgDLsZ&catid=601

I wasn't trying to create a "first", just a nice gentle round to use for my spare .416 barrel and action.

I don't plan to ever use 400 grain bullets anyway. The rifle as it will be throated won't accept 400 grain bullets without seating them way deeper into the case than I have in mind. If I wanted 400 gr. bullets I'd chamber for .416 Ruger or, more likely, .416 Chatfield-Taylor.

One of my objectives is to build a round and rifle where a person, even if tempted, can't easily create or use any magnum power loads. But it will still have enough "whump" at 100 or 150 yards for hunting NA game from deer and hogs up.

Most of the time I might end up using 300 grain bullets at the same velocity for an even more gentle load.

If you do a search on the forum for ".416 240 Weatherby" you will come up with pages of info.

There seem to be numerous versions of this and similar cartridges out there. I was like you and had a couple of barrels and a 284 based reamer, so I started the 416/284 for convenience. i will have to say I like the idea of the 240 Weatherby case as to feeding. All things considered, if I were starting from scratch, I would likely go with one of the .411 versions. People have reamers available, and the bullet selection is much better in the lighter weights. More importantly, they are geared toward the proper velocity range for expansion.

I did pretty much the same thing as a 400PDK using 06 cylinder brass but in .411. I had done one earlier with blown out 280 brass and .416. I happen to love both. The 416 is used in Alaska every year my a buddy that has it on long term loan.

In the 400 I use anything from 210gr pistol, 300gr 350speers(416s drawn down to .411) and 400s. I find it very fun to shoot light on recoil and still give me something big enough for anything I would care to shoot.

Sounds like a great new project.

Sounds like a great cast bullet cartridge.
I've seen a 416/303 Brit that the owner loved in his shortened No.4 Enfield.

Good Luck with the project
Cheers, John

I think it was Ken Waters that designed a cartridge called the 416 Woods Walker/Loafer, or something like that.
It was a 350 Rem Mag necked up to 416.

Basically something in the power range of the 405 WCF.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I think it was Ken Waters that designed a cartridge called the 416 Woods Walker/Loafer, or something like that.
It was a 350 Rem Mag necked up to 416.

That'd be the 416 Express

I can’t find any information on a 416 Woods walker or Woods Loafer.

The 416 Express uses a different cartridge, not the 240 Wby. According to Ken's book "Pet Loads".

quote:

Originally posted by MuskegMan:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I think it was Ken Waters that designed a cartridge called the 416 Woods Walker/Loafer, or something like that.
It was a 350 Rem Mag necked up to 416.

That'd be the 416 Express

Thanks, yes it was called the 416 Express.

I can say that a 40 cal, 300gr bullet at 2200 to 2330fps is a great killer.

I have shot a few deer with the 405 WCF, and a deer and several pigs with my 450/400 using 300gr Hawk bullets at 2330fps.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

quote:

Originally posted by MuskegMan:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I think it was Ken Waters that designed a cartridge called the 416 Woods Walker/Loafer, or something like that.
It was a 350 Rem Mag necked up to 416.

That'd be the 416 Express

Thanks, yes it was called the 416 Express.

I can say that a 40 cal, 300gr bullet at 2200 to 2330fps is a great killer.


I have shot a few deer with the 405 WCF, and a deer and several pigs with my 450/400 using 300gr Hawk bullets at 2330fps.

I agree, and thank you for posting that. I also have two .405 Winchesters, a .450/400, a .411 on the full length blown-out .375 H&H case, and a .404 Jeffery. All of them are good performers with 300 grain bullets on any North American game.

And I think they still will be at 100-to-250 FPS less velocity as well...hence my woods-loafer mildcat. Game-rangering kill-security at low recoil and, in this instance, low price.

Is kinda the same reasoning I used when choosing to build a .416 Aagard. Is a .376 Steyr necked up and improved. Used an old Higgins FN commercial Mauser action.

I do like the idea of good cross sectional area to achieve energy transfer at moderate velocities without beating up the shooter too much. This one is good for about 2200 fps with the 350 gr Speer MagTip from the 22" barrel.

Rifle turned out to be a tack driver with 400 gr cast bullets too ... nothing quite like sub MOA performance at 100 yards.

Could be that you would consider the .376 a middle-cat as opposed to a mildcat, but it does have the advantage of being potent enough for anything in North America if necessary.

(Must be honest here ... my real choice was to install an existing barrel made from Douglas stock, not to have a new tube chambered. Was offered a very reasonable deal on it. So the original project was not my own, but the logic to continue the project was. Glad I did.

BTW: The .416 Aargard just knocks the snot out of piggies!)

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Is kinda the same reasoning I used when choosing to build a .416 Aagard. Is a .376 Steyr necked up and improved. Used an old Higgins FN commercial Mauser action.

I do like the idea of good cross sectional area to achieve energy transfer at moderate velocities without beating up the shooter too much. This one is good for about 2200 fps with the 350 gr Speer MagTip from the 22" barrel.

Rifle turned out to be a tack driver with 400 gr cast bullets too ... nothing quite like sub MOA performance at 100 yards.

Could be that you would consider the .376 a middle-cat as opposed to a mildcat, but it does have the advantage of being potent enough for anything in North America if necessary.

(Must be honest here ... my real choice was to install an existing barrel made from Douglas stock, not to have a new tube chambered. Was offered a very reasonable deal on it. So the original project was not my own, but the logic to continue the project was. Glad I did.

BTW: The .416 Aargard just knocks the snot out of piggies!)

Mike - I think your .416/.376 sounds like a very good choice. I did consider that option several times in this process but the trouble is I am one of those guys who would end up always loading that round to its full capabilities.

So, to thwart myself, I looked around for a case with enough capacity (but no more) to reach about 2,050 fps when just a bit under a 56,000 psi (piezzo) max (47,000 C.U.P.?).

But the .376 itself is an absolute jewel, to me. Ever since I got my .376, my .375 H&H just sits idle and ignored in the vault. The .376 will do everything I wanted my .375 to do, and it does it easier...and it doesn't work me over in the process. The .375 isn't heavy recoil, but the .376 is even more gentle while still killing quickly and well.

AC

You might want to take a look at Hawk bullets for your Mildcat.

In my 450/400 I have shot deer and several pigs with a 300gr Hawk bullet at @2330fps with the .025 jacket.
I also shot one pig with a 400gr Hawk bullet with the .035 jacket.

With the 9,3x74R I have used the Hawk 285gr bullet with the .035 jacket to shoot several deer, pigs and impala, and a "few" baboons.
Velocity @ 2225fps.

These Hawk bullets hit like the Hammer of Thor.

I have never had a single animal take a single step after being hit with one of these bullets, except for one pig, hit at 40 yards with the 9,3, he jumped forward at the shot, and nose dived in, moving about 5 feet or so.

In Zimbabwe, every impala but one, hit with the 9,3x74R using 286 gr Woodleigh Softs or 286gr Nosler Partitions, ran for as much as 40/50 yards or so...

Every impala hit with the 285 gr Hawk, fell in its tracks...

For your Mildcat, the Hawk bullets just might be the way to go, IMHO of course.

Seems to me your mild cat would be great fully loaded to drive a 350grain + gas checked bullet to 2200 + fps.ergo**Modest recoil and magnum energy level.That barrel could be reasonably short also. roger

quote:

You might want to take a look at Hawk bullets for your Mildcat.

In my 450/400 I have shot deer and several pigs with a 300gr Hawk bullet at @2330fps with the .025 jacket.
I also shot one pig with a 400gr Hawk bullet with the .035 jacket.

They would probably work well at that velocity. I pushed them WAY to fast(2600+) in my 400PDK.

RR340 & Roger -

When I get it built, I think I'll try both those approaches. They both sound like just the sorts of things I am going to build it for.

I think you have just invented a hi-vel 40-65.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think you have just invented a hi-vel 40-65....

....for a bolt gun.

Just about what I had in mind performance-wise, Rich.

BTW, I would give up the whole idea in a heart-beat if I could get my niece's '86 .40-65. It is about 90-95% condition, and she has a photo and newspaper clipping showing it being presented to one of her great grandfathers, the former Sheriff of the county the Nevada state capital is in, by none other than Buffalo Bill Cody.

It also has a plaque on it stating that, and is accompanied by a Colt Peacemaker presented at the same time, and his Sherrif's badge. No, it isn't for sale, AND WON'T BE IN HER LIFETIME.

AC,

Maybe I missed it. What action are you planning on using? Do you anticipate having feeding issues with the shorter OAL?

My plan is to use a spare VZ-24 action I also happen to have on hand. I don't forsee any feeding problems with a case of about 52-to-54 m/m length instead of the 57 m/m length case the action was designed for. I can always seat those nice fat bullets out a bit if I need more OAL length to make it feed smoothly.

quote:

My plan is to use a spare VZ-24 action I also happen to have on hand. I don't forsee any feeding problems with a case of about 52-to-54 m/m length instead of the 57 m/m length case the action was designed for

Sounds like a plan. I know on my 400PDK we ended up having to open the rails up on my MKX action to allow the big round (flap point) 400s to feed. The 375 version fed ok with no rail work.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
flap point

i know its a typo, but still funny

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
flap point

i know its a typo, but still funny

Yeh, and y'know I think I've shot some of those flap pointed critters? Shots I thought were perfect sometimes ended up going so far off-target I'm almost sure some little denizen residing inside the bullet threw the flap open in flight and waved a wing or something in the air flow over the nose, causing it to veer just like full right flap on one of them airy-planes might do.

Well if I'm this bad at 61 I worry how far apart my mind and fingers will be when I hit 65.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Well if I'm this bad at 61 I worry how far apart my mind and fingers will be when I hit 65.

Cheer up Ramrod, it will get worse!


I'm at the point now where I have to correct every post 6 or 7 times to get everything spelled even close to right. Doesn't make it any better that this danged "Windows 7" keeps filling in words before I even get them typed...and often the word it fills in was not the one I was trying to type.

You'll notice the T and P aren't even on the same side of your keyboard; I'll bet it is doing the same thing to you.

quote:

You'll notice the T and P aren't even on the same side of your keyboard; I'll bet it is doing the same thing to you

You bet thanks for the out. Yep Windows 7 did it. That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

AC

Thought I would cloud the water a little more. I know we have discussed the 416-284 at length and worn the whole 240WM issue out in various threads, but I want to throw out an idea again we discussed earlier, namely the WSSM option.

I had discussed this at one time with someone concerning a Whisper type 338 (which I still think has a lot of merit) and mentioned it as an option when your project first started. I dropped it myself for the 416 at the time since I didn't think it could get into the 400 Whelen territory(and I already had a 6-284 reamer and 416 N&T reamer). However, after your settlement on the Mildcat concept, I got to thinking about it again. I am thinking of building a 243 WSSM, so I picked up a package of brass yesterday. I did a shadetree comparison of case volume by filling a 243 wssm case with varget to the mouth, transferred it to the 240 case, then again to the 284. The results were about what I expected. The full to the mouth charge in the 243 filled the 240 to the bottom of the neck, and then filled the 284 case to about the base of the shoulder. Based on this comparison, I suspect the 243 or 257 WSSM case necked up to 416 would be spot on for the performance you are after. I tried making a case and almost got there before ruining it. The problem is that there are hardly any common cases that have a base diameter as large as the shoulder of the WSSM, so I didn't have enough dies available to step it up slowly. That is neither here nor there really, since if I did this I would simply anneal the shoulders and necks and fireform. You would be good to go.

I personally would tend to choose the 25 WSSM reamer, since that case is .007 longer at the shoulder to prevent the 25 going in the 243 chamber (iam presuming that is the reason.) It would also be slightly less of a stretch for the fireforming. The cartirdge OAL is such that you could adjust case volume is necessary by seating the bullet farther out and throating a little more.

This round has a shoulder a full 0.1" larger than a 416 neck, so headspacing would be very positive. It is so short, that even with the heaviest bullets seated far out, it work through a short action, for a really compact rifle. An old model 600 in 350 Remington would be a great donor action, if you could find one. The only real drawback I see is that you would lose magazine capacity. I tried a stock M98 and comfortably got three down and one up. The magazine is so long that this is one of the few times I would definitely go with a short action. You should be able to buy the right combo of Remington followers and boxes to make it feed properly with no other work.

I don't have QuickLoad, never having trusted it that much, but it would be interesting if someone could take the WSSM measurements and compare them to the 240 2" option. Might be interesting. I would like to see both the 338 and 284 options to see what the comparative numbers look like. The 338 option is not a likely candidate for work since it is between the 338 Federal and the 338-06, but it is the shortest of all and would allow some really long heavy bullets in a short bench rest type action with the bullet seated to the base of the neck, so may be interesting for that reason. The 416 WSSM is the one that has the most promise. It's just a lot easier to do than any other fat case short 416, since you can use off the shelf reamers for chambering.

Art -

That's an interesting suggestion, but not one which I would opt for at this instant...

The reasons -

First and foremost, I want to use components I lready have. I have about 4 BUSHELS (literally!) of '06 brass. I don't have ANY WSSM brass of any neck diameter. I also already have a spare VZ-24 action, all surface ground and polished and bolt-altered, and ready for a barrel and bluing.

Second - It isn't markedly easier to cut a chamber with a reamer than it is to cut one with a boring bar, IF the chamber has NO shoulder and isn't overly long.

One has to be careful setting up the barrel in the lathe and in adjusting the cross-feed to work as a properly angled linear feed, but that is not tough for a person familiar with his tools. He can do it that way without having to buy a taper attachment either.

And the chamber cut with the boring bar doesn't cost anything by way of reamers, standard or custom.

Third - As you point out, there would be a loss in magazine capacity. One of my goals is to retain the original Mauser magazine capacity.

Fourth - Short & "fat" cases CAN sometimes cause feeding difficulties in bolt actions originally designed for cases which are longer & less fat. That can be fixed, but why bother when it isn't needed if a smaller diameter case is used?

I am "allergic" to taking metal out of an action's rails....especially as one of these days I might want to use the same action for some other cartridge, or to make yet another "switch-barrel" gun out of it.

But it is does appear to be a viable alternative if it fits what one has as objectives. An interesting journey, this voyage to the land of a bigger bore bolt-action "mild-cat", isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
AC

Thought I would cloud the water a little more. I know we have discussed the 416-284 at length and worn the whole 240WM issue out in various threads, but I want to throw out an idea again we discussed earlier, namely the WSSM option.

I had discussed this at one time with someone concerning a Whisper type 338 (which I still think has a lot of merit) and mentioned it as an option when your project first started. I dropped it myself for the 416 at the time since I didn't think it could get into the 400 Whelen territory(and I already had a 6-284 reamer and 416 N&T reamer). However, after your settlement on the Mildcat concept, I got to thinking about it again. I am thinking of building a 243 WSSM, so I picked up a package of brass yesterday. I did a shadetree comparison of case volume by filling a 243 wssm case with varget to the mouth, transferred it to the 240 case, then again to the 284. The results were about what I expected. The full to the mouth charge in the 243 filled the 240 to the bottom of the neck, and then filled the 284 case to about the base of the shoulder. Based on this comparison, I suspect the 243 or 257 WSSM case necked up to 416 would be spot on for the performance you are after. I tried making a case and almost got there before ruining it. The problem is that there are hardly any common cases that have a base diameter as large as the shoulder of the WSSM, so I didn't have enough dies available to step it up slowly. That is neither here nor there really, since if I did this I would simply anneal the shoulders and necks and fireform. You would be good to go.

I personally would tend to choose the 25 WSSM reamer, since that case is .007 longer at the shoulder to prevent the 25 going in the 243 chamber (iam presuming that is the reason.) It would also be slightly less of a stretch for the fireforming. The cartirdge OAL is such that you could adjust case volume is necessary by seating the bullet farther out and throating a little more.

This round has a shoulder a full 0.1" larger than a 416 neck, so headspacing would be very positive. It is so short, that even with the heaviest bullets seated far out, it work through a short action, for a really compact rifle. An old model 600 in 350 Remington would be a great donor action, if you could find one. The only real drawback I see is that you would lose magazine capacity. I tried a stock M98 and comfortably got three down and one up. The magazine is so long that this is one of the few times I would definitely go with a short action. You should be able to buy the right combo of Remington followers and boxes to make it feed properly with no other work.

I don't have QuickLoad, never having trusted it that much, but it would be interesting if someone could take the WSSM measurements and compare them to the 240 2" option. Might be interesting. I would like to see both the 338 and 284 options to see what the comparative numbers look like. The 338 option is not a likely candidate for work since it is between the 338 Federal and the 338-06, but it is the shortest of all and would allow some really long heavy bullets in a short bench rest type action with the bullet seated to the base of the neck, so may be interesting for that reason. The 416 WSSM is the one that has the most promise. It's just a lot easier to do than any other fat case short 416, since you can use off the shelf reamers for chambering.

Art,

You might look at the B&M web-site of Michael458's and his 458 SS and 50 SS. they are based on cut down WSM cart and work through WSSM actions

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/

They would seem to be very close to what you are talking about.



SSR

Anything happening on this one
,AC ? roger

Well Roger, I did get the CH-4D forming die, but as I then had to unexpectedly spend a week in the local saw-bones butchery shop (and am returning thence again tomorrow to see if they wish to reincarcerate me) so not much of anything is happening in my loading room at this moment.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Well Roger, I did get the CH-4D forming die, but as I then had to unexpectedly spend a week in the local saw-bones butchery shop (and am returning thence again tomorrow to see if they wish to reincarcerate me, not much of anything is happening in my loading room at this moment.

With you in spirit! roger