Last Sat., finally able to take .25 Ack. Imp. Krag Borchardt to range. Was only going to fire-form..but got to looking at bore & speaking to original owner..decided to do a complete barrel break-in. Followed Sinclair's moly-coat break in: fire 1, two wet patches thru, J-B short stroked thru, flush with solvent patches, tight nylon brush & copper remover 12 passes, flush with solvent, repeat J-B & flush. I dry patched & ran 1 barely damp patch of Montana Extreem conditioning oil thru & fired 2 shots. Repeat cleaning & 2 shots 3 times..then move on to 3 shot/clean sessions for a total of 18shots fired. After 7 1/2 hours I was done! Don't want to go thru that again for awhile! Yesterday, I had a few more cases to form..so I decided to do a rough load work-up..now I am using data for the .257 Roberts using H4895 & Speer 100gr. moly-coat spitz. Started low & at 31-33grs. I was getting 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100yds. Didn't think this too shaby for fire-formed case & a hard to shoot off bags rifle with full rounded forend & crisp but heavy pull. Rifle has a 1960's era 7X Leupold. Anyway...I had used Montana extreem cleaners with brl. break-in...but didn't care for powerful ammonia odors to this time decided to use Bore-Tech products. I shot 20rnds before cleaning. 5 wet patches thru with Eliminator & 12 strokes with tight nylon brush wet with eliminator. At this point..no copper showing on lands at muzzle..but patches were stained blue (Bore-Tech Proof-Positive rod/brush/jag) I then J-B'd bore & patches showed lighter shade of blue. I then patched 5 with Bore-Tech copper remover followed with 12 using brush & flushed with copper remove. Patches are are very light blue--barely stained..Is this enough cleaning for routine use? One thing I did notice when breaking in with Montana Extreem..after brushing with M.E. solvent copper on lands was a bit brighter & Copper-Cream brightened it up like a new penny..but wasn't removed until I went in with J-B. The Bore-Teck Eliminator removed all trace after brushing. Sorry for being so long-winded..just don't want to clean more than necessary.

Stop. Shoot 20 rounds of a proven load, reclean and see if groups open up and then shrink (back). Some barrels shoot better a bit coppered up.

quote:

just don't want to clean more than necessary.

You already did when you started the "break-in".
It's never been proven to have any real benefits.

Confused. This does not sound like a virgin bore when you say you spoke with the "original owner". If that is the case, doing a "break in" doesn't make much sense. And spending 7.5 hours doing it is a little OCD. Further, to add moly to a bore that is not squeaky clean can be problematic as it will not burnish in to the metal that has previous power/copper fouling. So you wind up with patches of moly and not a uniform moly coat - not that I am a fan of moly. That fad came and went.

In regards to your cleaning procedure, I would guess that you will clean the life out of the bore long before you shoot it out. Might want to dial it back by about 90%. A few wet patches for powder fouling, light scrub if you feel lots of throat fouling, and then tackle the copper with Montana Extreme or KG-12. Allow the solvents to penetrate and work on the copper before patching it out followed by a light oiling to protect the metal.

Run a couple of wet solvent patches down the bore to remove loose powder and carbon fouling.
Use copper brush and solvent to remove powder and carbon fouling.Repeat until patches don't show much fouling.
Use JB on a patch on a new copper brush.Back and forth about 30 times.Replace with a clean patch(no JB).Back and fourth 30X to remove JB.
Repeat(all the above) replacing the copper brush with a new one.
Use a copper brush and solvent to remove JB residue and carbon.
Pass a patch on a jag 2X.
Pass a oil patch(a patch with 4 or 5 drops of oil) down the bore.
Clean chamber and lug recess.
Clean bolt raceways with a oily q-tip.
Clean bolt with brush and solvent.
Wipe solvent off bolt.
Clean bolt face with oily q-tip.
Lightly lube bolt.
Your set to shoot.
For 308 clean every 30 rounds.
For 300 Win Mag clean every 5 or 6 rounds.

It's been said before, but a lot of barrels are frankly severely damaged by excessive cleaning or poor cleaning habits if you will. There are two methods of cleaning a rifle bore, one is chemical as in solvent, other is mechanical which is wire brush. Many will run solvent in the bore, immediately wipe it out, wrong. You have to give the solvent/chemicals time to "do it's thing" while sitting in the bore. As with Sweet's Solvent letting it sit in bore longer than advised is potentially damaging to the bore, so take heed with it or similar products. Krieger, Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Obermeyer, Shaw, etc., etc. have all been used by me over the years and found that simple Hoppes NO.9 w/ three wet patches, let soak for some 20-30 minutes, dry patch couple times and it is good to go. If rifle is to be put away for weeks on end will add a coat of oil to the bore for storage. Dry patch oil out prior to shooting again, but above process has worked for me just fine. Most experienced match shooters would not want their barrel to be pristine clean prior to a match, a big advantage to having sight in shots is to foul the bore aside from establishing zero for a given range.

quote:

Originally posted by Instructor:
It's been said before, but a lot of barrels are frankly severely damaged by excessive cleaning or poor cleaning habits if you will. There are two methods of cleaning a rifle bore, one is chemical as in solvent, other is mechanical which is wire brush. Many will run solvent in the bore, immediately wipe it out, wrong. You have to give the solvent/chemicals time to "do it's thing" while sitting in the bore. As with Sweet's Solvent letting it sit in bore longer than advised is potentially damaging to the bore, so take heed with it or similar products. Krieger, Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Obermeyer, Shaw, etc., etc. have all been used by me over the years and found that simple Hoppes NO.9 w/ three wet patches, let soak for some 20-30 minutes, dry patch couple times and it is good to go. If rifle is to be put away for weeks on end will add a coat of oil to the bore for storage. Dry patch oil out prior to shooting again, but above process has worked for me just fine. Most experienced match shooters would not want their barrel to be pristine clean prior to a match, a big advantage to having sight in shots is to foul the bore aside from establishing zero for a given range.

Instructor: I do the same but use Hoppes BR. I talked with one of their tech guys and he said they use no ammonia in their solvent and it is safe to let it soak - even overnight.

The cleaning syndrome, those that slave over ole Betsey after every shot or session..

Thus my love of the bore snake, three strikes and Im out of the shop..its been working for years for me with no ill effect.