Speedy is one of the best in the business but probably doesn't want to get into an internet battle with someone that knows as little as 45-70. Someone like that isn't worth the time or trouble to try to educate. Lost cause but then who cares. 45-70

45-70 Shooter = Larry Root.

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
I use bore snakes as they are a very handy tool. I drag them through the bore as needed to remove oil and/or condensation when in the field. I store them in a small zip lock bag and when needed, I put them in the cargo pocket of my pants and run them through the washer.

ALL cleaning equipment can damage your bore if used improperly. No disrespect to any of the recognized or self proclaimed expert snipers/bench rest shooters/barrel makers/shade tree gunsmiths/gun writers/etc., but most of them base their "facts" on what their favorite mentor/hero said or wrote.

Pay that

Cross L well said. Any tool including the most expensive Sinclair rod, bore guide and jags can damage a bore in Ham Hands.

You will note that the "experts" have yet to produce:
1. The name, address and phone number of any recognized gunsmith who will state that a properly used snake will damage a bore or crown.
2. Any data from a recognized testing lab stating
that a properly used snake will damage a bore or crown.

Why not because it's BS from azzwipes who don't even own one and DNS about them.

Funny how those dumb Germans who kicked the worlds' butt in 1870 and almost did in 1914 and 1939 seemed to think a rounded chain style pull through was good enough for their troops.
Funny how my 1942 98K bring back that came with the late Nazi's "stuff" (including the pull through) will still shoot military 8x57 into 2" @ 100 yards with issue sights and 70 tear old eyes.

The Internet is home to every wannabe who could never win at Dodgeball (against the girls team).

The best one was the dolt who said he never say a BoreSnake at a bench rest match. On the assumption (doubtful) that he even competes in BR, I'd love to see him lift a 40 pound rail gun up, by himself, while dropping a pull through down the barrel.

Gump was right !

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Cross L well said. Any tool including the most expensive Sinclair rod, bore guide and jags can damage a bore in Ham Hands.

You will note that the "experts" have yet to produce:
1. The name, address and phone number of any recognized gunsmith who will state that a properly used snake will damage a bore or crown.
2. Any data from a recognized testing lab stating
that a properly used snake will damage a bore or crown.

Why not because it's BS from azzwipes who don't even own one and DNS about them.

Funny how those dumb Germans who kicked the worlds' butt in 1870 and almost did in 1914 and 1939 seemed to think a rounded chain style pull through was good enough for their troops.
Funny how my 1942 98K bring back that came with the late Nazi's "stuff" (including the pull through) will still shoot military 8x57 into 2" @ 100 yards with issue sights and 70 tear old eyes.

The Internet is home to every wannabe who could never win at Dodgeball (against the girls team).

The best one was the dolt who said he never say a BoreSnake at a bench rest match. On the assumption (doubtful) that he even competes in BR, I'd love to see him lift a 40 pound rail gun up, by himself, while dropping a pull through down the barrel.

Gump was right !

How many BR HOF points do you have??? Yep that what I thought!! Have you ever won any state shooting championships??? Yep that what i thought... What an idiot... So no skins on the wall hmmmmm.

Sure do know a lot about precision shooting to have you head stuck so far up your rear lol..

I dropped it because your mind is made up and anything further would just be arguing. Why bother? I don't really care if you ruin your barrels or not.

Swampshooter & hoss-

I'm not in the camp that says its a preferable solution, but for those of us hunting overseas, what does your expert recommend for getting junk out of a bore when on Safari for 21 days and you have to deal with weight restrictions and so on?

Obviously, one would be a fool to use such a method for a bench rest rifle, and using it for a 1000 yard target gun is likewise not a really good idea, but I think leaving wind blown dust in your bore or water is worse than the bore snake. I really doubt it destroys the gun if you use it in limited applications. I also doubt it does a good enough job to consistently clean a rifle so that one would get the results one wants for competition; but then again the military snipers I know typically use something like the otis system in the field if their gun is dirty until they can get back to base and do things right.

You two seem to be pretty dogmatic about this pull though issue. Are you saying that you would leave the dust and moisture in your bore rather than use something portable in field conditions?

If there is a better idea, let me know.

And since bona fides seem to be important-

I have never shot a bench rest match. The longest shot I have ever made on game was 400 yards (attempted and made). I try and hunt overseas once a year, and while I have shot 3 gun, competitive trap, Skeet, Sporting clays, IPSC/IDPA, and once tried high power, I sure am not at the top of the pack in any of them.

I have always packed a Dewey rod, small enough that I could use it for both rifles in my hard case, some patches and jags, and a small bottle of Hoppe's. All of it only weighs a pound. That's all you need until you get home.
If hunting during the dry season I would just leave it alone until I got home. Don't let one of the camp boys clean your rifle.

STILL waiting for that "famous gunsmith" to be identified.......

STILL waiting for the documented lab data to be provided .......

As an attorney or D.A. would say: Sir, you have no evidence, you have no case."

As for "skins on the wall" does this count ?

I'm not going to bother to look up a bunch of barrel cleaning advice from famous barrel makers, The Benchrest Shooting Primer published by Precision Shooting has 12 or so pages of barrel cleaning methods by noted gunsmiths and barrel makers.
Go to the Trophy Room thread for some of my photos if you care to. I don't really care what you clean your rifle with, makes no difference to me. I just hate to see you giving such poor advice to new shooters.
PS. One medium sized red deer doesn't really qualify you as a rifle expert. They kill them behind high fences here in Texas all the time.

I certainly wish you people could hear yourselves. You have the elitest saying "lips that use bore snakes will never touch mine". That's a pretty stupid position. And pointless. You're not gonna fall down the mountain with a 13# BR rifle with a 48X scope on it. You're gonna shoot your 5 shots and then fall back to your cleaning station where you have enough shit to open your own store. So a bore snake would be a pretty pointless accessory.
Not so with a hunting rifle. A day afield carries all sorts of possibile mis-adventures. So you do indeed fall down the mountain. What do you do? Well, I guess I'll walk the 7 miles back to camp to get my one piece rod to properly clean my rifle. And if I see any game on the way back, well, I guess it's tough shit. No way am I gonna cut a small limb from a tree and gouge the dirt out and pull a bore snake through my bore. Another reason being, that if I pull the snake through the bore 8,972 times and happen to hit the exact same spot on the muzzle, it may distort my crown.
While one piece rods are great, if I didn't have access to one, I'd use a jointed rod. In fact, until snakes came along, I carried a jointed rod in my day pack for years.
Is the bore snake the do-all, be-all, end-all of rifle cleaning? Not even close. But it is a handy tool that does have it's place.

There you go again, trying to inject common sense into what has become an irrational crusade to discredit a useful product while 100% UNABLE to produce ANY credible evidence to support the anti-boresnake rants.

You should know by now that "keyboard commandos" don't care about facts, and it's all about: "I know everthing and am always right and I never let the facts get in the way of my agenda."

Just pretend you are talking to Obama about Health Care and you'll get it.

It's not a Red Deer, you dolt, it's a Rocky Mountain Elk and it was killed with the flinter hanging below it. (no Boresnake involved)

Texas eh ? That says it all ..... pig hunters, no free land, high fence hunters and always looking over your shoulder for the drug cartels. You got the "votes" to secceed, leave now as you'll soon be part of Mexico anyway.

As for Precision Shooting, their doors are closed, dolt and the "experts" you cite can't even agree on how to clean a rifle.

All you can do is produce conflicting opinions with no lab teated results to back up your BS.

The Boresnake is not a do all tool and the user (not educated in Texas for sure) has to know enough to RTFI (requires speaking and reading English at the 8th grade level) so that it is used properly.

You have a serious case of "know it all" and DNS rolled into one. Be sure and let us dummies know when you can CYA and giant ego with any facts from.... say.... H.P. White Labs (we won't be holding our breath)

Adios tontoatonta

I actually thought about this thread on both my recent trips to the deer lease.

I did some zero checking, some "plinking" at my 300 yard gong and shot some animals.

So I used these Bore Snakes a few times to get out the "big lumps", and lessen the chance of powder fouling ashorbing moisture and rusting the barrel.

I thought to my self "These hard jacketed [yes they are hard, try to bite one ] bullets go dwon the barrels of my guns at from 1700fps to 3200fps, behind a collum of high temp, high pressure gas...

And I am supposed to worry about ruining my barrel with a soft cord, pulling a bore brush in front of a soft fluffy "rope" through the barrel every once in a while.

I just do not see the danger.

Also on one of the rifles I shot a fair amount I got out my Otis flexible rod cleaning kit and ran some Prolix through the chamber and barrel several times, and then a couble of dry patches, and then the Bore Snake.

When I looked down the barrel after all of this, the rifling was still there.

I do take care to pull these cleaning tools as straight through the barrel as possible, just as I take care when using a full length cleaning rod.

If that's a rocky mountain elk how come he doesn't have a mane and has so much ivory on his horn tips? That's a red deer.You're trying to misrepresent that trophy, why I don't know.
Resorting to name calling and personal insults is ignorant. I've put you on my ignore list.

Glad to see another person who knows you can use a boresnake and not destroy your rifle.

As for the Texas idiot, swampshooter, his knowlege of elk is right up there with his expertise on rifle cleaning.

We do have just a few more Elk in WY than Texas and since game ranching is illegal (unlike Texas) there are no "red deer ranches". A mature bull like this is also quite a bit larger than a red deer. Where do these dolts get their information ? Oh yes, the internet where everything is true..... LOL.

Anyone else think this is a red deer ?



Another "red deer" (google rocky mountain elk)
As any fool knows the white tips come from polishing while sparring with other bulls or trees. Really crushed I am on ignore from him. Rather like having an idiot neighbor who borrows all your tools and does not return them, move away!

Even if that is an elk, which it doesn't look like one. One elk doesn't make you a rifle expert. H.p. White is a ballistic lab. After you requested expert testimoney about rifle cleaning and I gave some quotes from the world's best barrel makers and best shooters, then you want a ballistic lab testimoney. Why would a ballistic lab comment on barrel cleaning.
The major problem with a bore snake is that carbon gets imbedded in the fiber and when it hardens it's just like sand. It will not wash out. Then it puts microscopic scratches in your barrel which picks up ever more fouling and ruins tour crown. It's just the same as using the same dirty patch or dirty brush over and over, but then you guys probably do that too. Call your favorite riflesmith and ask him about barrel cleaning. You guys need some serious instruction. But then both of you think you know it all and anybody who dares to disagree with you is an idiot. I won't correspond with either of you. I haven't called anybody names or personnally insulted anyone. Both of you have. Both of you have been added to my ignore list. Funny thing is, there's only two people on that list.

Gee I thought I was on ignore.....just can't stand not being right (even when you are wrong) can you ?



Suppose this is also a "red deer". Hint: there are no Red Deer in Wyoming.

Based on your "bore snake" science, no brush or mop could ever be reused due to all that carbon embedded in them. Don't suppose you own a Borescope, have ever have hand lapped a barrel and don't believe all barrels have "microscopic scratches" in them ? Hint: sand washes out of fabric all the time ..... I think there are beaches even in TX are there not ?

But you're right and Hoppes is selling a product financed by barrel makers in an evil plan to get us all to wear out our barrels before their time.
Bush was also involved when he wasn't planning to blow up the WTC.

H.P. White will "comment" on anything if YOU PAY THEM. Take your crusade to them, get the data that proves properly used b BoreSnakes wreck barrels and then get some string tie attorney and go sue them. I'm sure you'ld get rich !

No one has asked you to keep posting your incorrect BS, so just STFU and go away ..... OK ?
But first, read up on Red Deer and note:
1. American Elk and note: "The slightly larger wapiti (elk in American English), native to North America and eastern parts of Asia represents a distinct species besides red deer. "
2. "European red deer tend to be reddish-brown in their summer coats. The males of many subspecies also grow a short neck mane during the autumn. The male deer of the British Isles and Norway tend to have the thickest and most noticeable manes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_deer


Anything else you want to debate, that as they say in Texas, you are iggernerant about ?

How about 300 H&H vs 300 WSM vs 300 WinMag ?
How Davy really died at the Alamo ?

BTW the word you were grasping for was "personally". Telling the truth is not an insult, it is just .... well... telling the truth.

"In a ranking of the 50 states plus Washington, D.C. in educational attainment, Texas was 51st in high school (79.6 percent)" You are what "they" made you.

45-70 shooter

I am from Texas too.

Also, I have done a couple of horseback hunts near Pinedale WY.
I spent a few days in town before and after the hunts.

Nice people there and nice country.

45-70 shooter



Those look just like the red deer I harvest in Idaho


Cal30

Really ? ID Ag department says:

"All elk must be tested negative for red deer genetic factor, or be registered with the North American Elk Breeders Association (NAEBA)."

In case that's too hard, you can't own or import them to ID and certainly not to WY. (No exotics, period!)

Somehow I rather doubt any of you "experts" have been to the UK, Scotland or NZ and actually seen Red Deer up close.

Gump is once again ptoven to be correct!

That was a very meaningful contribution. You an Elk expert too ?

Thanks for answering the question.

"Don't feed the DNS crowsd".

BTW, I'd like to hear where in ID the "harvester" is killing these "Red Deer". I'm sure the ID Ag dept would as well.

I still have a bit of meat in the freezer from the larger one. If the "expert" wants to foot the bill, we can get a DNA test run to see if it were a "Red Deer". Put up or shut up.

45-70 shooter is Larry Root. Larry Root is a first class troll, moron, and also a compulsive liar.

Pegleg, I have no idea who you are as your profile is top secret. If you have hard evidence of my lies (vs your serial liar troll pals @ you know where) I'm sure you can supply we, who are curious, with SPECIFIC quotes and their source(s). Also since I am on your words, "a moron" , I'm sure you can provide the results of my last I.Q. test showing a 51-70 level that was the standard for the now obsolete term moron.
BTW my name is really no issue as it's a case of who cares ?, while your's is a big secret.
It is amusing to watch adult (?) males puff up their keyboard egos and slander others whom they have never met, acting in ways they would never do FTF even with a quite senior citizen.

Funny how all the "Red Deer" proof has yet to come forward ....... wonder why?

Hope Santa was kind to you and brought you a nice "Ken" doll to play with. (chuckle)

PegLeg is ? ? hiding under a desk somewhere. LOL

45-70 shooter


Good god It was a joke is all.

You seem a little bit on edge...


Cal30

Cal 30, I wish it were a joke, but you have not received death threats and had to ask three police departments to open cases on these fools.

None of the departments which have files open viewed all this as a joke. When someone says they are coming to your home to harm you and your family, solicits others to join them and even prints out a "trip log to "document" their visit, they need to be taken seriously.

The "visits" all turned out to be hot air but given the number of nut cases all over the Internet, you just never know.

I find it amazing, given how easy Internet ISP subpoenas are to obtain (post 9/11), that these fools think they are impossible to find.

Contrary to the science fiction on TV, there is no place to hide as many bad guys have discovered.

BTW, the creation of the 300 H&H in 1920 was far more important than the 270 despite JOC's best efforts. The latter never won a major rifle match, the former was the first to best the 30-06 @1000 yards.

All I can say is it would suck to be as paranoid,uptight and defensive as you portray yourself as being...


Like I said the red deer stuff was a joke.


cal30

45-70 shooter is Larry Root. Larry Root is a first class troll, moron, and also a compulsive liar.

This was a quote from a totally different tread.
People have you figured out.
I will crawl under my computer desk if you crawl back under your rock.

PegLeg, I won't be crawling anywhere as you and you fellow coward trolls scare me not.

It is always amusing how trolls take on the role of "speaking for everyone". As for "figuring me out" you have never met me, had no dealings with me and are too afraid to list your name and town on the site. I'll take my A+ ratings on all the gun auction sites I deal on, my power seller status on ebay, my 6 years of honorable military service, 30 years of success in business and 18 years of formal education and match it up against anything you or the liar you claim to be quoting, have to offer.

BTW the word you were grasping for was "thread", a tread is what a boot or tire has on the bottom along with all the dog crap like you.

As for the "Red Deer joke", it was no joke just a lie by a liar. As for being paranoid:, you have not received the death threats, false visits and endless stream of lies and insults by a few yellow bellied cowards that would never act the way they do (at least on my turf) FTF.
They have been dealt with by informing the property authorities. If you could find him, you might want to ask the SFB from SD how he enjoyed his "visit" with The authorities after posting that he was coming to Pinedale to kill me. Death threat =s Warrant =s ISP telling who you are and where you live =s visit from police ....... and could = a civil action as well. (I'll leave you guessing on that one, but SD has some fine hunting and I don't own any property there ..... yet)
The general level of ignorance among Internet "tough guys" on the minefield into which they are walking is amazing. Some pretty simple research would reveal both the Federal and various state laws on the subject as well as the outcome of many cases across the nation.
Suffice to say some people have spent time with a new roommate named Bubba or shelled out a lot of coin to settle such matters.
Adults don't act like these trolls and understand that actions have consequences.
Trolls never recovered from the humiliation of being beaten by the girls dodgeball team in grade school and have found (they think) a new home in which they can be bully boys and never pay the piper.
Just a guess, but if a Boresnake were dropped in your left ear, it would probably drop out your right. (chuckle)
I have to go clean my 329 with my boresnake so I'll bid you adios.

Thought for the day: "fing with smart people with lots of resources is rather like picking a fistfight with a Navy SEAL ..... probably won't turn out well"

Larry,

You're drooling again. Wipe the slobber from your chin. Call your care giver. Get back on your meds.

Frikkin' troll.

You see the caliber of the dolts I am forced to deal with ..... any questions ?

Yet another yellow bellied coward too afraid to tell us who he is and where he lives, not to mention follow up on his troll threats.

Wannna see a stupid troll ? Look in the mirror.

Figured out how you're gonna pay all those new Jerry Brown taxes yet ? CA: death sprial state #1 with more takers than makers.

AMF azzwipe.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
You see the caliber of the dolts I am forced to deal with ..... any questions ?

Yet another yellow bellied coward too afraid to tell us who he is and where he lives, not to mention follow up on his troll threats.

Wannna see a stupid troll ? Look in the mirror.

Figured out how you're gonna pay all those new Jerry Brown taxes yet ? CA: death sprial state #1 with more takers than makers.

AMF azzwipe.

Yes, a question. Do you think, Larry Root, that those who know your true indentity give give you any credibilty? And no, I don't "wanna see a stupid troll." All I have to do is read your posts and visualize.

Fellas:
I was originally going to post that I find the boresnake marginal when cleaning for jacketed bullets in the field and absolutely worthless when shooting lead bullets. They are good for one or two passes to clean moisture, unburned powder, dust, etc., from the bore, but not much else. All of mine will be up for sale at the next gun show.

However, as I read through all the "interesting" posts may I suggest some of you fine folks apply to be on the Jerry Springer show?

Good shooting, cleaning, and a great new year to you all.
Cal

Coward Craigster, Still afraid to post your name and address .....
that says it all.

You probably see ghosts in the attic as well...laffin

As for Jerry Springer ..... well I was planning on meeting Craister and the other gutless, yellow bellied, cowards at the "Big Pinedale Campfire"
but, as no surprise, it just turned out to be another chapter in the book of serial lies by the serial liars.

They learned well from Lenin, but we're a bit brighter than Russians.

Got my 329 all cleaned with the BoreSnake. Squirt of Wipeout, two passes with the snake, back in the Boyt Intercept lined case and ready to go again. (That was after FIFTY lead bullet loads and the bore is leadless. Of course it was never leaded to begin with as some of us know how to cast, lube, size, load and shoot lead bullets and.... well.... some haven't a clue. Why read the books that tell you how to do it right when all information on any subject can be found right here in the Internet ? Heck, I never would have known Bush blew up the WTC towers w/o the Internet.

Same dummies who never owned/used but KNOW a boresnake is evil probably never heard of or owned an Intercept case either.

Once again, Gump's wisdom is validated.

An interesting thread for sure. Do men of character actually behave in this manner?

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Firstly, I use the boresnakes for cleaning debris and moisture from the barrels while on hunting trips where I don't have access to my full cleaning kit. I shoot a lot of big bore rifles and it seems they are always collecting dust and dirt near the muzzle. There is no way in hell that pulling that cord through the barrel does more harm than shooting a brass or copper bullet through it. Especially if the barrel has picked up some crap.

Secondly, that is obviously an elk in 45's picture. How it could be misidentified as a Red Deer is beyond me except by someone who hasn't hunted elk. Looks like a nice one to boot.

No, I haven't won any state championship BR matches nor do I have "bona fides" in similar contests. I did win the local "Turkey Shoot" once when I was a kid! Does that count? But I do have extensive experience hunting over a large portion of the world for a variety of game. I own and have owned my share of rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I've never had one rust from neglect nor have I damaged the bore of any to the point that it will no longer shoot straight. Of course, I'm not seeking BR accuracy so we may be speaking from different perspectives. But for 99.99% of us (sorry, no peer reviewed scientific report to justify that percentage number, I just pulled it from ... commonsense), a cleaned boresnake pulled down the barrel at the end of a long day afield just isn't going to cause enough damage to cause a miss on the next game animal taken at reasonable hunting distances. I was going to mention that when hunting in certain conditions such as mountains and or snow, I usually put a piece of electrical tape over the end of the barrel to keep crap out of it; and yes, I shoot right through it when the time comes. But then, I'm sure the more anal here would have a shit fit over that so ... never mind!

Todd, some people who appear to be "men" do in fact act in this manner. While the Internet is a wonderful thing, it does provide fools what they think is an invisible cloak they can hide behind and act in ways that would provoke a brawl if ever done FTF. Sad to say, as with gun ownership, the misuse of the "net" by a tiny few is ramping up to the "Government" taking it over and we all know how that will turn out (See China where they have). Most sites (as here) have responsible moderators who tamp down the loons but others do not. What evolves is 10 or 20 morons out of perhaps 20,000 members are ceeded control of the site by a disinterested owner who has no idea what is going on. Given the existing Federal and State laws on misuse of the Internet, that's not very bright but, as Gump said, "stupid is as stupid does."
Threads that start out as a topic can quickly degenerate into name calling, insults and even threats of physical harm. I'm sure once Nancy and Harry are the Internet "Czars" that all will end......
As with most chest beaters most of these "men" have never owned or used a Boresnake and can not produce any evidence to support their wild claims.
It's clear that you and I can read well enough to employ the tool as intended, those who cannot should not be entrusted with any tool except that made of "nerf ball" material.
BTW, condoms are superior to electrical tape (taught that one by my Dad who walked from Normandy to Germany back when killing the enemy was the Army's role)
Nice photos, I envy you. Afraid I'm too old and Obama will make me too poor to ever go on my dream hunt for Cape Buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
You see the caliber of the dolts I am forced to deal with ..... any questions ?

Yet another yellow bellied coward too afraid to tell us who he is and where he lives, not to mention follow up on his troll threats.

Wannna see a stupid troll ? Look in the mirror.

Figured out how you're gonna pay all those new Jerry Brown taxes yet ? CA: death sprial state #1 with more takers than makers.

AMF azzwipe.

Gents this kook's name is Larry Root, whose come over from the 24Hour Campfire Forums where he's been exposed and ridiculed under ALL his different handles. He's truly a sociopath in need of medication and or confinement. Eventually he'll post pictures of rifles he doesn't own and things he hasn't done and go off the deep end. What a moron people like this pollute these forums.