I have not been able to get all the carbon fouling out of my Swedish Mauser.

Mostly using Wipout, let it sit for about an hour then scrub with nylon brush with cotton patch.

I am afraid to overclean with a bronze brush for fear of wearing out the barrel.

Any ideas for a better cleaning process ?

WHAT exactly do you think a bronze brush can do to the barrel?

Wear it out ?

Scrub away.

AD

Give him a break Allan, would there be anyone in the world who hasn't been annoyed with that phrase "more barrels are ruined" etc etc

Sooner or later some one has to wonder. . .

What about the cleaning rod? Does he use a bore guide? What about carbon being the hardest substance known to man? and you want him to "lap" the bore with that stuff as it comes off?

It's a wonder anyone cleans anything any more.

quote:

Originally posted by Boarman:
I have not been able to get all the carbon fouling out of my Swedish Mauser.

Mostly using Wipout, let it sit for about an hour then scrub with nylon brush with cotton patch.

I am afraid to overclean with a bronze brush for fear of wearing out the barrel.

Any ideas for a better cleaning process ?

Maybe this will help.

http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html

Read the bore brush part too.

http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html


Its funny reading the some of the various shooters methods, fears, wives tails, and theorys in regards to bronze brushes.

While barrel manufactures and some of the shooters recommend useing bronze brushes.

Thanks for the link...very informative.

Allen, I suggest you view the link. You might change your tune on using bronze brushes.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
What about carbon being the hardest substance known to man?

Sorry, I really hate to burst your bubble, but carbon is actualy one of softest substances known to man. Graphite for example is pure carbon. Anthracite(high grade coal) is almost pure carbon. Infact you are one giant walking hydro-carbon.

perhaps you are thinking of diamond, but we are not even coming remotely close to the temperatures and pressure required to make diamond, or saphire for that matter. Carbon does not even have a melting point at atmospheric temperatures and even the worst case scenario of 6k fahrenheit at 75k psi is not even coming close to the temps and pressures required to crystalize carbon.

The carbon ash from gunpowder won't even scratch your fingernail let alone steel.

If there is any hard stuff in the powder residue, it is far more likely to be a nitrate salt of some kind.

Boarman,

Go here: Try this stuff!

It softens that stuff up real good and really if you are worried about using bronze, it will just take a little longer with nylon.
Just remember you have to let it set for a few hours to get under it.

(that rifle finally cam spotless after about 50 to 55 go arounds)

Sorry, I really hate to burst your bubble, but carbon is actualy one of softest substances known to man. Graphite for example is pure carbon.[/QUOTE]


Gee and I thought I had lead in my pencil.
But acutally I was listing some of the stories I have read, like how hard powder fouling can get, how it is difficult to remove, and eventually it will build up and then "shatter" to bits. My point being the original poster was worried and I'm saying well no wonder.

Sorry, no bubbles here. I'm even sceptical of sceptics.

Pencil lead is mixture of graphite and clay that is fired and then added to the pencil, it has inclusions that are very hard.

Nitrates are salts of nitric acid, nitric acid is used in the formation of smokeless powder. Salts are often hard enough to scratch glass, and I have no doubt could damage the barrel.

The point is, that if anything really hard where to be deposited in the barrel, the following shot would pick it up and act like sand paper up the length of the barrel. That barrels wear most at the throught speaks more for erosion rather than abrasion.

The whole idea that because they are sucessful match shooters doesn't mean that they know anything about how a bronze brush does or does not hurt a steel barrel...

we must remember than half of these people probably have a "lucky" pair of socks or shooting shirt

They are only repeating theold wives tales they've been told

Like the very first one who mentions he uses MOLY, well that right there is a damned good reason to use a nylon brush that won't REMOVE the moly layer you've painstakingly built up inside the barrel.

and BTW, I think the guys who complain about moly being difficult to clean out of barrels are the first people I'd try to sell my patented intelligence pills to, you know the ones made of compressed sheep shit.... (Hey, these pills taste like shit! See you are getting smarter already!)

The fact that moly sticks to steel is the ENTIRE POINT of using the stuff, but the claims that it will continue t build up are alarmist claptrap. (and that's the kindest thing I can think of saying)

If you want to get moly out of a barrel just stop using it and keep shooting, it's softer than graphte and will wear off the surface of the steel.

as for my take on brusing? Read Dan Lilja's comments
He apparrently learned from the same sources I did, because I agree with him

I disagree with the guys who saying "brushing is bad" then in the same breath tell you about using JB.

the idea that a bronze BRISTLE that won't scratch going outbound through the muzzle will scratch going back in is rediculous.

The potential for things CARRIED on the brush has some merit, particularly primer residue! Primers contain aluminum when aluminum is burned it creates alumina, aka Aluminum Oxide aka Sapphire!

Yes, primer residue is abrasive, by comparison everything else is like spreading Coconut butter on sunburn.

However that being said the vast majority of primer residue is GONE with the wet patch before the brush ever touches the bore. and if any of the primer residue is imbedded in the steel bore no ammount of brushing is going to get it out.

letting the steel cleaning rod touch the sides of the muzzle probably isn't as bad as letting a "soft" (aluminum or plastic) cleaning rod with abrasive material embedded into the rod touch the same bore.

Brass rods split the difference but can still allow material to become imbedded

Because barrel steel is harder than cleaning rod steel.
I have seen unchamfered barrel crowns tear gouges in a cleaning rod, OTOH I have yet to see a cleaning rod gouge a barrel.
I'm not saying it's not possible, I am saying I have major doubts that everyone worrying about it is being worried reasonably.

Tiny scratches in the steel from pulling a bronze brush back into the bore? PLEASE next someone will tell me that
plastic can scratch a diamond.

No proceedure is perfect, pick your poison.

what really bothers me is someone who goes out and spends $300-$400 on a quality barrel blank (Hart, Lilja, Kreiger, Pac-Nor, Lothar Walther, etc... or whomever you prefer), a similar ammount on having it fitted to their action,
lus any other precision work they can dream up, then the first thing they do when they get the completed rifle (or in their mind "work of art" is get themselves a set of abrasive coated bullets to "final finish" the barrel that was painstakingly lapped by the maker before it was shipped...

WTF?


AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by wrongtarget:
http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html

Interesting link, wrongtarget!

If you have a little patience you can skip a lot of the brush stuff. Just run a few patches of Hoppe's through it and let it set a day or two.
Repeat if you need to. Given time Hoppe's will remove the stuff that needs to come out. If you are still getting a little carbon on a patch ..so what? The next time you fire it you will put more in the bore and the next shot just runs over it...and so on.

Yes, my centerfires are always damp with Hoppies until they're shot next. Also gets reminents of copper out as well.

Boarman ; Get a Outers Foul Out 3 rod !. Do it chemically save the scrubbing elbow for some other use .

A word of caution it works so well you will actually see rifling !. As well as pits and anything else you might not wanted to know lurked in there !.

I have used everything known and unknown to mankind to clean a bore one time or another . I fill the bore with kroil now days and let it set over night , drain bronze brush or nylon depending on bore condition .

I had a NASTY Arisaka , Mosin Nagant and a A3 03 that I tried everything on . I almost was tempted to wash the barrels out with acid !. ( I didn't but wanted to ! )

A friend lent me his older Foul Out Rod . I bought one the newer type 3 the next week !.

It was scary how clean the bores came ! I'm not kidding I thought I had ruined the barrels !.

Well the old Nagant shots .75 - 1.0 " all day long with hand loads . The A3 .675 - .890 "

That Ariska is still a pile of crap , but has a bright bore !. I don't load for it and factory surplus is crap ammo at best .

Shot straight know your target . ...