quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . spin it anyway you want, you quit. Your lack of success rests at your feet no one else’s. You publicly crying over spilled milk is a reflection on your character and no one else’s either. It is that simple. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
Saeed,
However, sometimes you become like a terrier with a bone. You keep chewing on it long after all the meat is gone and won't give it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
AR is the kitchen of internet hunting sites.

Many, mostly liars or watered-down liars, a/k/a bullshit artists, can't stand the heat, and flee the kitchen.

I never miss any of them.

Cal never left. Nature took him early, and he was a kind-hearted and knowledgeable man. I do miss Cal.

I bear no animus towards CMS. I have actually recommended them since posting my hunt report.

With one caveat: Be careful!

Find out everything you need to know, including from AR, before booking.

This would include quality of concession being offered, time of year of your hunt, how trophy fees are to be paid, etc.

Do not rely only on trust.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
AR is the kitchen of internet hunting sites.

Many, mostly liars or watered-down liars, a/k/a bullshit artists, can't stand the heat, and flee the kitchen.

I never miss any of them.

Cal never left. Nature took him early, and he was a kind-hearted and knowledgeable man. I do miss Cal.

I bear no animus towards CMS. I have actually recommended them since posting my hunt report.

With one caveat: Be careful!

Find out everything you need to know, including from AR, before booking.

This would include quality of concession being offered, time of year of your hunt, how trophy fees are to be paid, etc.

Do not rely only on trust.

TRUST!

That is another word that has disappeared from what is being discussed on this thread.

It followed TRUTH.

I have been brought up in a world where TRUST and TRUTH are paramount.

You break these, and you are no longer trustworthy, and a liar.

And I see some of our members like to forgive and forget.

I am fine with that too.

But what is wrong needs to be corrected right here.

A businessman should not come on a public forum and accuse others of ruining his business and then run away, especially once the fact are out.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
AR is the kitchen of internet hunting sites.

Many, mostly liars or watered-down liars, a/k/a bullshit artists, can't stand the heat, and flee the kitchen.

I never miss any of them.

Cal never left. Nature took him early, and he was a kind-hearted and knowledgeable man. I do miss Cal.

I bear no animus towards CMS. I have actually recommended them since posting my hunt report.

With one caveat: Be careful!

Find out everything you need to know, including from AR, before booking.

This would include quality of concession being offered, time of year of your hunt, how trophy fees are to be paid, etc.

Do not rely only on trust.

TRUST!

That is another word that has disappeared from what is being discussed on this thread.

It followed TRUTH.

I have been brought up in a world where TRUST and TRUTH are paramount.

You break these, and you are no longer trustworthy, and a liar.

And I see some of our members like to forgive and forget.

I am fine with that too.

But what is wrong needs to be corrected right here.

A businessman should not come on a public forum and accuse others of ruining his business and then run away, especially once the fact are out.

As a personal matter, I do not disagree, and my standards are the same.

But I do not harbor grudges.

For others, I advise do as I say, but don't always do, which is:

Caveat emptor!

quote:

As a personal matter, Saeed, I do not disagree, and my standards are the same.

But I do not harbor grudges, except in rare circumstances.

For others, I advise do as I say, but don't always do, which is, in all things, when your wallet is open: Caveat emptor!

For me, it's more like: Screw me once, shame on you.

Screw me twice, shame on me.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Had enough of the pile on. I'll weigh in now. Not because Buzz needs defended anymore than anyone else I've hunted once with on the African continent, but because we ALL are responsible for our own choices in life.

Our first hunt was in Namibia and it was a ranch hunt that likely would have been our last trip over the pond if it were our only hunt. No reflection on those hosting it. I just didn't understand enough at the time about Africa for Africa's sake vs. an African experience.

Luckily, since this trip was going to be the singular African trip of a lifetime and I wanted to hunt "black death" I also did a 7 day Buff hunt with Johnny dePlooy. Lordy, that hunt, the hyenas outside our hut, the lions at night set the stage for an ongoing pursuit of the next African adventure.

What I did learn was the importance of due diligence.

Next up was Andrew Baldry and Lion, which brought a difficult decision. Originally we were to hunt at Thor's camp on the Luangwa but that fell apart and Andrew offered us the opportunity to be first up at Royal Kafue. He openly admitted he didn't want to hunt the area for another couple years of rebuild from its poached out state but if we were willing to take a chance we would have a full bag on the menu. I likely need not remind anyone here how that safari turned out.

If we would have shot one impala and a puku would I have been happy? Likely not but my report would be I knew what I was risking before choosing to go. The onus is on all of us to make that decision based on our research.

Fast forward, post Joyce's cancer dance, to Elephant in Dande early season with Buzz. Again my due diligence included reading hunt reports from Mike Jines, Marty Vick and others who went into the area early season. We were rained on, stung by wasps, walked endless miles through some god awful puckerbrush all the while loving the challenge, dung beetles not seen on other hunts, and laughter after each wasp attack.

My point is this. It was MY responsibility to decide if that hunt was something I wanted to do or not. If I based that choice on an outfitter telling me everything would be wonderful and easy and it wasn't then I would have zero to say about the outcome.

I'm not here to defend Buzz. I hunted with the guy once. I have no plans to hunt with him again anymore than any other PH I have hunted with in Africa.

I will say this. When this hunt was discussed with Buzz, in person, he told both Joyce and I it would be extremely difficult that time of year. Brush would be thick. We wouldn't see game regularly because of this fact. He was right.

I kid you not. We have seen more Elephants on our video of that hunt than we ever saw personally on the hunt. The reason was Justin Drainer, the videographer, was gifted at seeing african game and we were not.

What's my point? Buzz was honest to us up front. I did my due diligence and knew what I was getting into. We walked probably 100 miles leading to the day 10 kill.

I'm not judging Mike for ending a hunt early. That's his choice. It was also his choice to book the hunt with the level of intel he thought was sufficient. I'm not going to bother to dig it up but when I pointed out hunt reports like Mike Jines and Mine on the Dande in early season he admitted he didn't read them.

Saeed, I appreciate this forum more than I can express. I told you so in person while at your home. I also know how much you enjoy stirring the pot. Cal and I had many a laugh about this when he was alive.

Let's all just admit we are responsible for our own decisions and move on.

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
Saeed, We all recognise the value of this site. That's why so many of us spend so much time on it!
We also all know you like to have the last word. Fair enogh , it's your forum!
However, sometimes you become like a terrier with a bone. You keep chewing on it long after all the meat is gone and won't give it up.
All the meat is long gone from this thread and nothing is left but the shit.
PLEASE, for the sake of all hunters and the future close this thread down and lets all move on to something positive instead of repeating negatives.
Live in peace!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Buzz owes me no apology for his decision to leave. Who can reasonably blame him? He is a regular contributor for years on the forum, with as long a list of satisfied clients as any outfitter on AR. Then he gets castigated for announcing a trophy fee policy that was implemented for good reasons, listens to the reaction to the policy from folks on the forum and, based on that reaction, decides to discontinue the policy before even one client is subject to the policy. Then he gets dumped on for publishing a photo-rich end of season hunting report in which he conceals the faces of the hunters, again for good reason, because that offends the sensibilities of some. Finally, a disgruntled client comes along who now says he did not do enough due diligence before his hunt, missed a buffalo, regretted taking the missed shot, called the hunt early, accepted an accommodation of the outfitter and now challenges the outfitters honesty and integrity. Sorry but most folks in their right mind would justifiably conclude, "what the f*#k, who needs this crap." And so yet another name is added to the list of valued AR contributors, e.g., Richard Harland, Dave Fulson, et. al, that came to the logical conclusion that some things are just not worth the effort or the aggravation. Apologize? None required or warranted.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Buzz owes me no apology for his decision to leave. Who can reasonably blame him? He is a regular contributor for years on the forum, with as long a list of satisfied clients as any outfitter on AR. Then he gets castigated for announcing a trophy fee policy that was implemented for good reasons, listens to the reaction to the policy from folks on the forum and, based on that reaction, decides to discontinue the policy before even one client is subject to the policy. Then he gets dumped on for publishing a photo-rich end of season hunting report in which he conceals the faces of the hunters, again for good reason, because that offends the sensibilities of some. Finally, a disgruntled client comes along who now says he did not do enough due diligence before his hunt, missed a buffalo, regretted taking the missed shot, called the hunt early, accepted an accommodation of the outfitter and now challenges the outfitters honesty and integrity. Sorry but most folks in their right mind would justifiably conclude, "what the f*#k, who needs this crap." And so yet another name is added to the list of valued AR contributors, e.g., Richard Harland, Dave Fulson, et. al, that came to the logical conclusion that some things are just not worth the effort or the aggravation. Apologize? None required or warranted.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Buzz owes me no apology for his decision to leave. Who can reasonably blame him? He is a regular contributor for years on the forum, with as long a list of satisfied clients as any outfitter on AR. Then he gets castigated for announcing a trophy fee policy that was implemented for good reasons, listens to the reaction to the policy from folks on the forum and, based on that reaction, decides to discontinue the policy before even one client is subject to the policy. Then he gets dumped on for publishing a photo-rich end of season hunting report in which he conceals the faces of the hunters, again for good reason, because that offends the sensibilities of some. Finally, a disgruntled client comes along who now says he did not do enough due diligence before his hunt, missed a buffalo, regretted taking the missed shot, called the hunt early, accepted an accommodation of the outfitter and now challenges the outfitters honesty and integrity. Sorry but most folks in their right mind would justifiably conclude, "what the f*#k, who needs this crap." And so yet another name is added to the list of valued AR contributors, e.g., Richard Harland, Dave Fulson, et. al, that came to the logical conclusion that some things are just not worth the effort or the aggravation. Apologize? None required or warranted.

Very well stated Mike.

There are apologies warranted however ... just not from Buzz.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
You are a good man and conservationist, Bwana.

Let us hope it does some good here.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

It saddens me to have read this thread - what started out as a very well intended Christmas / year end message, has morphed into name calling, criticism, questioning of integrity and values, divisions and pages and pages of negative texts.

It a shame that dirty laundry gets aired on this forum in this manner - for whatever reason be it as a heads for others or with the intent to slight and throw a punch.

It is a shame that outstanding persons and hunters on here select corners and are so quick to turn their backs on fellow hunters that have been on AR for years. It is a shame that Mike continues to post on this subject after he wrote in another post elsewhere that he would not post anything else on the matter. It is a shame that Buzz called BS and announced a sabbatical from AR. And it is a shame that Saeed has turned his back so quickly on Buzz and that Saeed is now posting laughing emojis about this matter in his texts - its smacks of mockery and belittlement in what has become an ongoing damaging thread IMO.

I really enjoy AR, reading, learning and posting, but guys this is not what AR is about for me and I would guess for many others on here and as so many have said if we cannot stick together and support each other then we are just feeding the antis.

I hope that this will quickly pass and not drag on and on and on and I hope that we can all text and write and message about good things rather than go on and on about issues that are not that critical and crucial to hunting in general and us as individual hunters.

Merry Christmas / happy holidays to all and happy and safe hunting for 2023.


Ps. Saeed why not implement a no blurred faces rule if it bothers you and others so much ? Just like your tips rule. Pictures of hunters with clear faces or just pictures of animals if the hunter wants to stay anonymous for whatever reason.

.


.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Damn, I missed this . I had no idea what was going on over a Christmas card .

I know Buzz, Myles and Michael . All are good people. Honest people . It is sad to see things going the way this has gone .

Hunting can be an odd endeavor . Even in the best of areas, animals can become almost impossible to hunt temporarily. I have seen it before. It has happened to me. Hell, I have a friend who wanted to kill a whitetail of the species on my ranch . I advised it would not be hard . He got there. NOTHING! I was very embarrassed. He came the next year and shot one first morning . They filmed a TV show at my ranch . Every single day for two weeks before spring gobbler started, I had 50-75 birds coming through one place . Opening morning ? NOTHING! It happens. It is part of hunting .

My point here is what Michael said could be absolutely true . Things like this can and do occur . It is simply bad luck.

As far as quitting, everyone has to rely on their own experience. If Michael felt that there was no chance , he should make a decision based on his experience. Right or wrong . I do not fault that .

I have hunted several times with CMS. They are honest and honorable people . I gave them money in 2020. I am taking that hunt next year . I never had a question. They have always done right by me .

While I generally do not like the idea of prepaid, non-refundable trophy fees, the explanation provided by Buzz is quite reasonable to me . I do not fault it . I totally get it. Business owners can be left with expenses that they shouldn’t incur otherwise. It wasn’t for the entire safari as I understand it. It was for select animals which would be a certainty.

These matters serve no good purpose being aired on a public forum. Once again, fighting amongst ourselves rather than our common enemy .

Happy holidays to everyone!

quote:

Originally posted by Longwalker:
This whole discussion is very sad. So much endless animosity.
My only response is that I'm happy that I just booked my first elephant hunt with Buzz and CMS. I'm looking forward to an adventure, and to learn from one of the most experienced and respected professional hunters in the business.
Hooray for hunting and cheers to the professionals who help us achieve our dreams.

quote:

Originally posted by Longwalker:
This whole discussion is very sad. So much endless animosity.
My only response is that I'm happy that I just booked my first elephant hunt with Buzz and CMS. I'm looking forward to an adventure, and to learn from one of the most experienced and respected professional hunters in the business.
Hooray for hunting and cheers to the professionals who help us achieve our dreams.

quote:

Originally posted by Longwalker:
This whole discussion is very sad. So much endless animosity.
My only response is that I'm happy that I just booked my first elephant hunt with Buzz and CMS. I'm looking forward to an adventure, and to learn from one of the most experienced and respected professional hunters in the business.
Hooray for hunting and cheers to the professionals who help us achieve our dreams.

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
I've lost interest in trying to post pictures or videos on this forum - too annoying. My youngest son took a 45" buff in Dande East with CMS with a double rifle at 20 yards (there's a hunt report somewhere with pics, along with another buff and ele in Dande North). We returned with CMS and he took leopard, croc, hippo and sable in Dande North. Just booked my 3rd trip with CMS for 2024 (ele and buff). I consider CMS the top outfitter in Zimbabwe. As for the blacked-out faces, I can't blame them. Too many people have fallen victim to the social media mafia, and if they wish to expose themselves to that, great - but I commend CMS for not exposing them - they need to do that themselves ....

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
I've lost interest in trying to post pictures or videos on this forum - too annoying. My youngest son took a 45" buff in Dande East with CMS with a double rifle at 20 yards (there's a hunt report somewhere with pics, along with another buff and ele in Dande North). We returned with CMS and he took leopard, croc, hippo and sable in Dande North. Just booked my 3rd trip with CMS for 2024 (ele and buff). I consider CMS the top outfitter in Zimbabwe. As for the blacked-out faces, I can't blame them. Too many people have fallen victim to the social media mafia, and if they wish to expose themselves to that, great - but I commend CMS for not exposing them - they need to do that themselves ....

Agreed, I’m glad to see them take the high road and not get sucked into this mean spirited childishness.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
Remind me to never post a Christmas Newsletter. Holy Smokes.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
I've lost interest in trying to post pictures or videos on this forum - too annoying. My youngest son took a 45" buff in Dande East with CMS with a double rifle at 20 yards (there's a hunt report somewhere with pics, along with another buff and ele in Dande North). We returned with CMS and he took leopard, croc, hippo and sable in Dande North. Just booked my 3rd trip with CMS for 2024 (ele and buff). I consider CMS the top outfitter in Zimbabwe. As for the blacked-out faces, I can't blame them. Too many people have fallen victim to the social media mafia, and if they wish to expose themselves to that, great - but I commend CMS for not exposing them - they need to do that themselves ....

Agreed, I’m glad to see them take the high road and not get sucked into this mean spirited childishness.

I agree with you.

Just see who started it!