quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
texlonghorn - I totally agree and think that the part time booking agent "Bobby" should refund the client the trophy fees for both the soft boss Buff and young Croc!

Yet another tread where folks cannot seem to follow their mother's advice, if you don't have anything good to say keep your mouth shut. I find it the pinnacle of ill manners to insult someone else's trophies. If hunt reports on this forum dry up to nothing who can blame those that conclude that it is not worth the potential grief to simply open themselves up to criticism or worse by simply sharing their experience with "fellow" hunters. Very disappointing.

Bill73 (Bal) and CDHOMS (Chris),

First off, congratulations on having a great hunt.
Secondly, let me say that I have made some of the same mistakes that were made on your hunt. I also shot a buffalo with a soft boss that shouldn't have been taken. It was early in my African hunting career (15 trips in 9 years) and I was following my PHs instructions. The buffalo in the first photo looks to have hair in the middle of his boss which is a definite sign of an immature bull. I think your PH made a mistake, not you. I used my incident as an excuse to go back and make sure that I took a very old dagga boy, which I have done.
I have also wounded and lost game. However, I do think a Texas heart shot as the first shot on a buffalo is too risky to attempt and again a good PH would not have allowed that to happen.
That Croc looks a little small to have been taken, but I don't know the standard in that particular area. Again, I once shot a 11' Croc that was too small for the area I was in.
A seven day hunt for two friends compressed down to five days probably put more pressue on the PH to get you your trophies in the alloted time. It sounds like your PH was a rookie and certainly rookie PHs will make mistakes just like veteran PHs. IMO 7 days for two buffalo split between two hunters is too short a time and is more likely to end up with the shooting of an immature bull.
It sounds like you both had a fantastic experience and don't need an excuse to go back, but when you do I would recommend a different Safari Company.

Good luck,

Mike Core

Bal, congratulations on a great first hunt for DG. You just made it too short, that is all. Very nice dugga boy you got yourself. As you know I am safely moved now down to South Carolina so I will miss the DRSS times with you and Graeme at the range. You are always welcome down here.

As a PS, I have to agree with MJines. Recently, there are many on here that are just plain rude. There is nothing bad to be said about a first class guy like Bal and his co-hunter who just tells you like it was. We have all been there and to be upfront about the mistakes and trials we all go through should be recognized positively and not pissed on.

Just my 2cents.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
texlonghorn - I totally agree and think that the part time booking agent "Bobby" should refund the client the trophy fees for both the soft boss Buff and young Croc!

Adam Clements how do you justify this comment you made here and where did it come from. I think it's a blow below the belt which is quite typical of your character from my experience of doing business with you. You were the actual outfitter for Richard's and my Tanzania buffalo hunt not just the booking agent. It was a very poor quality hunt plus $3300 of my gear was stolen from my tent in your camp even while being watched by a guard you employed. You should have repaid me in full for the stolen items and not just less than 2/3 the cost of those items. Your employees were way out of line by extorting extra money from us while in their care. You personally were quite rude to Richard and I after the hunt was over even though you knew first hand of the poor quality experience we had from your company.

Richard did not have an opportunity to kill anything on this hunt due mostly to the PH you sent with us. All he wanted was a buffalo and an Impala. You didn't refund Richard back his prepaid trophy fees for several months even though he never got to kill one animal on the hunt.

After killing my buffalo I had to walk 30km back to camp during this fiasco because the driver got lost. The PH couldn't walk any further than half way so I walked to camp to send a truck back to pick him up.

It was a BAD hunt.

You have some nerve Adam Clements.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Yet another tread where folks cannot seem to follow their mother's advice, if you don't have anything good to say keep your mouth shut. I find it the pinnacle of ill manners to insult someone else's trophies. If hunt reports on this forum dry up to nothing who can blame those that conclude that it is not worth the potential grief to simply open themselves up to criticism or worse by simply sharing their experience with "fellow" hunters. Very disappointing.

Well said Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
texlonghorn - I totally agree and think that the part time booking agent "Bobby" should refund the client the trophy fees for both the soft boss Buff and young Croc!

Oh my goodness where is All Gone when you need him,ha ha ha,

That's an outstanding buff, Bal. Congratulations!

Bill73,

Glad you have enjoyed your hunt.

If you were happy with your trophies, that is all that counts.

It was YOUR hunt, and if you have enjoyed it, that is all that matters.

Holy Crap Adam!!

I had to read your post over again to be sure that I wasn't seeing things!

How ironic, in light of your MESS with Richard's Elephant, to suggest a refund on the "soft Buff and small Croc".

You have "some set" on you my friend!

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
texlonghorn - I totally agree and think that the part time booking agent "Bobby" should refund the client the trophy fees for both the soft boss Buff and young Croc!

Thats my whole point! Does the judges and jury and lynch mob on here choose who to smear and who they don't? A young elephant that a PH tells a client to shoot is no different than a young soft boss buffalo or a baby crocodile or a young Lion or anything else that a Ph tells a client to shoot! So where is the lynch mob now? Saeed where are the ethics now after you and others tried to judge me over a PH actions? Should the agent on this hunt not also be blamed and refund be demanded as it was of me? Tell me what the difference is from one young animal to the next? Why is nobody screaming bloody murder over the PH on this hunt?

And yes the booking agent should be treated the same way I was and should be smeared the same way and why is no one crying for a refund on these trophies?

Just proves that there are people on here who have different agenda's and are two faced.

Bill73 I do apologize for highjacking your thread and not very gentleman like and not at all meant to in anyway be personal about you. I see that you are a responsible hunter who does agree that the hunter takes responsibility when they pull the trigger, and that I respect. others on here tend to blame everyone else for making them pull the trigger.

Leopardtrack - Yes my friend I can take it and does not look like others on here can take it when given back! Fair is fair in my book and if the jury on here wants to set a standard, then they need to stick by it and not just pick and choose!

Bill73, I am sorry. Congrats on a great buff.

As Martin Pieters was clearly concerned, it apears Simon was calling the shots on this hunt. Simon is not a licensed PH (and this is not the first mention, but Nixon was present), Tim was/is. Tim never should have been involved with AG, according to your agreement with Wayne.

I'm going to quit typing on this, Bal had a good hunt. No laws were broken, as far as I can see. Let's just all get along. Hell, I have enough problems with girlfriends/ex-girlfriends and this is my escape. AR is what I used to learn a lot about for my first trip to Africa. Let's keep it like that and not like those liberal broads on TV like the View and whatnot.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
Thats my whole point! Does the judges and jury and lynch mob on here choose who to smear and who they don't? A young elephant that a PH tells a client to shoot is no different than a young soft boss buffalo or a baby crocodile or a young Lion or anything else that a Ph tells a client to shoot! So where is the lynch mob now? Saeed where are the ethics now after you and others tried to judge me over a PH actions? Should the agent on this hunt not also be blamed and refund be demanded as it was of me? Tell me what the difference is from one young animal to the next? Why is nobody screaming bloody murder over the PH on this hunt?

And yes the booking agent should be treated the same way I was and should be smeared the same way and why is no one crying for a refund on these trophies?

Just proves that there are people on here who have different agenda's and are two faced.

Bill73 I do apologize for highjacking your thread and not very gentleman like and not at all meant to in anyway be personal about you. I see that you are a responsible hunter who does agree that the hunter takes responsibility when they pull the trigger, and that I respect. others on here tend to blame everyone else for making them pull the trigger.

Leopardtrack - Yes my friend I can take it and does not look like others on here can take it when given back! Fair is fair in my book and if the jury on here wants to set a standard, then they need to stick by it and not just pick and choose!

Adam,
What is wrong with you???
You are deflecting the issue from your mess and trying to drag this guy into it. Man up and sort out your own mess.

This hunt report was ok. Yes, the guy shot a soft boss bull but that is no crime nor is it unethical. The croc was small but not a non-trophy. The second buff was a dandy. This poor guy bought a hunt from a shady outfit with a PH that is not lisenced. This outfit has had a host of problems in the past that are well documented on AR.

Your issue is that you booked a hunt that went sideways for the client. THe hunt in this thread did not go sideways.

Sort your own issues and leave others out of it - or get out of the business. I cannot believe you have an area like Lobo/Lokisale and have two world class PH's (Kendell and Blerk) that put up with you....

Bal, thanks for posting your hunt report and double thanks for your candor.

I have been interested in putting a dot optic on my heavy rifle. What mounting system did you use?

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
texlonghorn - I totally agree and think that the part time booking agent "Bobby" should refund the client the trophy fees for both the soft boss Buff and young Croc!

I find this post to be of very bad taste and childish to put it in a hunting report of some hunters that have nothing to do with your issues with All Gone and you

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
Thats my whole point! Does the judges and jury and lynch mob on here choose who to smear and who they don't? A young elephant that a PH tells a client to shoot is no different than a young soft boss buffalo or a baby crocodile or a young Lion or anything else that a Ph tells a client to shoot! So where is the lynch mob now? Saeed where are the ethics now after you and others tried to judge me over a PH actions? Should the agent on this hunt not also be blamed and refund be demanded as it was of me? Tell me what the difference is from one young animal to the next? Why is nobody screaming bloody murder over the PH on this hunt?

And yes the booking agent should be treated the same way I was and should be smeared the same way and why is no one crying for a refund on these trophies?

Just proves that there are people on here who have different agenda's and are two faced.

Bill73 I do apologize for highjacking your thread and not very gentleman like and not at all meant to in anyway be personal about you. I see that you are a responsible hunter who does agree that the hunter takes responsibility when they pull the trigger, and that I respect. others on here tend to blame everyone else for making them pull the trigger.

Leopardtrack - Yes my friend I can take it and does not look like others on here can take it when given back! Fair is fair in my book and if the jury on here wants to set a standard, then they need to stick by it and not just pick and choose!

Ouch. You kind of brought this on yourself with posts like this one.
Good luck on your bookings.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
I was surprised to see Bal in the Kitchen......especially in the day time!!!!

Yea ,I really wanted spicy Impala for dinner,had to start the prep early at lunch break,fresh game a glass of scotch around the fire with your friends at sundown,is what I call living.

Great picture of Bal barefoot in the kitchen! Congratulations to you both! Hope to see you in Dallas!

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
texlonghorn - I totally agree and think that the part time booking agent "Bobby" should refund the client the trophy fees for both the soft boss Buff and young Croc!

Mr. Clements, remind me again - how much of the baby ele trophy did YOU refund? Oh that's right, none of it.

Sorry for the Hijack Bal - glad you had a great hunt. When are you going back?

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
Why is nobody screaming bloody murder over the PH on this hunt?

For one very simple reason, the hunters on this report were happy with their hunt, enjoyed the experience and were excited to share their experience with the rest of us. Recall that on the other thread it was the hunter that was upset with the result and who raised concerns in the first place. There is a fundamental difference in those two situations that should be obvious to anyone.

Adam, I defended you on the other thread (not that you needed my help) since I felt like, and still feel like, folks were reacting based on incomplete information, partial facts, emotion and essentially acting like a mob and making the situation worse. But your post here was out of line in my view.

Bal, I still have dreams about that egg and bacon sandwich you made with pancake syrup that night in Brady. Please, never serve me any curry that you have had a hand in making.

+1 for MJines.

quote:

Originally posted by BulldogMaster:
+1 for MJines.

. . . you have had one of Bal's egg and bacon sandwiches made with pancake syrup too?

The hunters are happy.

The staff in camp got paid.
The meat was used to feed people.

This is Zim people, laws get broken daily the people live under a crooked dictator and his "war vetran" cabinet.
The people are under stress to get paid and eat.
Which happened in this case.

So who the hell are we rich Americans, to impose our ethics, standards and opinions on the situation, from our couches, offices and fancy houses over a cup of starbucks.

Congrat's again on an excellent hunt and report.

Nitro

Adam,

You just don't get it do you??

Read Jack De Bold's most recent response to yourself a few dozen times and maybe the lightbulb will go on. There is a BIG difference between Richard's Calf (PLUS the way you are treating him) and shooting a smaller-sized Croc which the hunter is happy with!

No "lynch mob" required...you are doing a great job of killing yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Clements:
Thats my whole point! Does the judges and jury and lynch mob on here choose who to smear and who they don't? A young elephant that a PH tells a client to shoot is no different than a young soft boss buffalo or a baby crocodile or a young Lion or anything else that a Ph tells a client to shoot! So where is the lynch mob now? Saeed where are the ethics now after you and others tried to judge me over a PH actions? Should the agent on this hunt not also be blamed and refund be demanded as it was of me? Tell me what the difference is from one young animal to the next? Why is nobody screaming bloody murder over the PH on this hunt?

And yes the booking agent should be treated the same way I was and should be smeared the same way and why is no one crying for a refund on these trophies?

Just proves that there are people on here who have different agenda's and are two faced.

Bill73 I do apologize for highjacking your thread and not very gentleman like and not at all meant to in anyway be personal about you. I see that you are a responsible hunter who does agree that the hunter takes responsibility when they pull the trigger, and that I respect. others on here tend to blame everyone else for making them pull the trigger.

Leopardtrack - Yes my friend I can take it and does not look like others on here can take it when given back! Fair is fair in my book and if the jury on here wants to set a standard, then they need to stick by it and not just pick and choose!

Mr. Clements, you're tightening the noose - not loosening it...

Congrats on the great Buff and I am happy that you really enjoyed yourself on your hunting trip

To clear things up a bit. I went to Africa to hunt with a friend of mine and share an adventure that most people are not able to share. I did not go to Africa to kill a 52 inch buff and a 16 foot croc. I would be just as happy if I never fired my gun. SSG was wonderful to us. I have no complaints and would love to hunt with them again. I hope that some of the people on this thread can act 1/3 of their age and try to have a thoughtful discussion about the hunt. Things like how to judge and old buff in the split second you have before you shoot. This sideline bomb throwing really is a bit silly.
Chris

Bill:

Congratulations on a successful hunt. I am sorry to hear about the lost buff. That has to cause a sleepless night or two. There is no worse feeling.

I have shot a lot of buff, a whole lot of buff. Most were shot with a 416 Rem using 400 grain Swift A Frames. They are a hell of a bullet and most often do their job properly. Having said that, as you saw, it is not the bullet for a TX heart shot. The penetration will not be there or even close to it.

My last buff, taken in October is the physically largest buff I have ever shot. It was close, perhaps 50 yards. It was not alarmed in the least. I shot the A Frame into the near shoulder. The bullet was under the skin on the far side. It would not go through on a full on broadside shot. I certainly would not penetrate sufficiently for a TX heart shot. That is risky business.

I am glad that no one got hurt by the wounded buff.

That second buff is an old warrior. Congrats.

Chris and Bal -

It was great to meet you both in camp, and congrats on a successful hunt. Chris, drop buy my office sometime when your in G'wood.

Hart

quote:

Originally posted by CDHOMS:
To clear things up a bit. I went to Africa to hunt with a friend of mine and share an adventure that most people are not able to share. I did not go to Africa to kill a 52 inch buff and a 16 foot croc. I would be just as happy if I never fired my gun. SSG was wonderful to us. I have no complaints and would love to hunt with them again. I hope that some of the people on this thread can act 1/3 of their age and try to have a thoughtful discussion about the hunt. Things like how to judge and old buff in the split second you have before you shoot. This sideline bomb throwing really is a bit silly.
Chris

Very well said my friend,I hunt to hunt and not to have the biggest trophy around,in fact I do not collect trophies,although since you so graciously allowed me to ship the old buff with your stuff I will have a momento of this hunt,and the memories will be there for ever.

Saeed,
you sir are a gentleman of the highest order,6-7 yrs ago I had never shot a gun,I have been to Africa 4 times now in the last 4 yrs,I have made friendships that will last a life time,I am grateful for the people who I have shared camp with,there are many honorable people on this site,and I am proud to call them my friends,I have learned a lot from AR,and I thank you for having the generosity to provide this site for all of us,even the ones who sometimes do not appreciate it,without this site,I doubt that I would have shared this passion that we all share,hunting and shooting

To all my AR bros,thank you for all the comments and your kind thoughts,

conditionone45,
I believe I have a QD MOUNT made by EAW which fits on the rib on my double,Heym USA,Chris can give you more info on it,if your rifle is not a DR,you can talk to Tod at NECG,they should be able to also provide additional info,

Jack D Bold,
I am already planning my next hunt in Africa,hope to take my son along this time,

larryshores,
you can bet I am not going to repeat my mistake in bullet selection,

Mjines,
buddy I have a special extra hot curry reserved for you for next time,

Adam Clements,
you apologized to me in a PM,and now I see that you have done it publicly as well on another thread,I applaud you for that,things can get pretty confusing sometimes but it's never too late to set them right,wish you the best in solving your problem with AllGone,Bobby alias dukxdog is an honorable man as I am sure you are as well,it would be nice to see things work out all around for everybody,life is too short and after all Christmas is around the corner,a happy ending would be nice

quote:

Originally posted by duckdog23:
Chris and Bal -

It was great to meet you both in camp, and congrats on a successful hunt. Chris, drop buy my office sometime when your in G'wood.

Hart

It was a pleasure meeting you and your son.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
Adam Clements,
you apologized to me in a PM,and now I see that you have done it publicly as well on another thread,I applaud you for that,things can get pretty confusing sometimes but it's never too late to set them right,wish you the best in solving your problem with AllGone,Bobby alias dukxdog is an honorable man as I am sure you are as well,it would be nice to see things work out all around for everybody,life is too short and after all Christmas is around the corner,a happy ending would be nice

Bal,

You are a class act sir. I hope to share a campfire with you one day.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

Chris and Bal,

Thanks for posting a great report. I am sorry some of these guys can't just enjoy a hunt report without mudding the water. Just like the two of you said when we met in camp. You both liked to hunt and enjoyed hunting together. The trip was about the hunt not necessarily the trophies themselves.

It is not fun loosing any animal, and it is certainly not fun paying for a lost animal, but hey stuff happens.

Hope to see you both again.

Hartley

Great report!
Great guys!
This is what it's all about.
Thank you very much for posting.

quote:

6-7 yrs ago I had never shot a gun,I have been to Africa 4 times now in the last 4 yrs

Bal:

Sometime, when you have time, please elaborate on this. I'd be interested to hear your personal progression from having not shot a gun 7 years ago to becoming a hunter and going to Africa four times in four years.

Thanks in advance for your post.

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:

quote:

6-7 yrs ago I had never shot a gun,I have been to Africa 4 times now in the last 4 yrs

Bal:

Sometime, when you have time, please elaborate on this. I'd be interested to hear your personal progression from having not shot a gun 7 years ago to becoming a hunter and going to Africa four times in four years.

Thanks in advance for your post.

Just like high school, it is a function of peer pressure and running with the wrong crowd. I would like to hear Bal's story too.

Guys get the beer ready hope to see you all in Dallas if I get there,I shall have the full story for you in person

Bal:

I shall drink every beer you buy me.

AR is really great.

Please note that I have edited my original post about shooting a buffalo in the rear with a TSX.

Thanks to all those who advised me against it and those who sent me PMs.

I have now changed my mind & will not ever try to shoot a buffal in the rear first shot. I am glad I learned this lesson on AR & not on my first African safari!

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Bal:

I shall drink every beer you buy me.

in your case buddy we might have to try some fine scotch

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
AR is really great.

Please note that I have edited my original post about shooting a buffalo in the rear with a TSX.

Thanks to all those who advised me against it and those who sent me PMs.

I have now changed my mind & will not ever try to shoot a buffal in the rear first shot. I am glad I learned this lesson on AR & not on my first African safari!

You sir is what AR is about,DECENT PEOPLE learning from each other,this site has taught me a lot,if you are ever in the USA look me up