I'm trying to get all information I can about Mahenge North in TZ.

I have read Saeed's hunting report from August 2005, and found other mentions using the search engine.

Does anyone have the GPS coordinates of the camp, roads, waterholes, corners or other landmarks? I'd sure like to get a satellite map of the area, since I have been unable to get a good topo any other way. If I had the GPS coordinates of the corners I could generate a satellite view on terraserver.

Thanks,

if you can get the GPS coordinates you can download and punch them into googleearth and get some good views they have the satellite images of the entire planet on one database that links to the googleearth program, it's a really neat tool and you can zoom into where you can see the roof of your house and the cars in your driveway. it's a pretty cool program and i like it better than terraserver

Don,

Sorry for the delay in getting you this information:

Camp where we stayed last year
S 08 26 09.0
E 036 51 07.1

Afakara airport, closest airstrip to camp
S 08.03.55.2
E 036.41.29.6

Kilimbero River ferry crossing - you cross this as you are driving to camp.
S 08.11.29.6
E 036.41.32.7

The village of Mavimba, which you drive through.
S 08.19.08.8
E 036.40.45.6

This year's camp might not be at the same location, as they move it according to the availability of water.

Anyway, I hope this is what you are looking for.

Also, Don, download GoogleEarth. It's fantastic and free!
Dave

Thanks, Saeed. Can you give me any idea of how far each direction it is from your camp to the boundary?

As to GoogleEarth I have the free version, it works well in some parts of USA, but has very little resolution in Africa.

Thanks, all,

Don,

I am afraid I do not have that information.

I know the following waypoint IS close to the concession border on one side.

Forest
S 08.21.35.4
E 036.49.14.9

Thanks again, Saeed.

The preview pic from terraserver is pretty good, with 15 meter resolution. The Google Earth view shows no useful detail. Maybe I'm using GoogleEarth wrong?

Don,
I had the same problem with the free Google Earth when I tried to view the Masailand region.
The resolution was horrible. Anything below 13,000 was too fuzzy. I will try Terraserver or is there something we are both doing wrong??
Robert

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
Thanks again, Saeed.

The preview pic from terraserver is pretty good, with 15 meter resolution. The Google Earth view shows no useful detail. Maybe I'm using GoogleEarth wrong?

No, Don, it's probably not you. I guess you're looking for a lot more detail than I was.
Dave

Here's some coordinates I got from Adam. Can anybody make sense of these, given Saeed's points above? Obviously these are some other coordinate system. Any help appreciated.

quote:

From an email by Adam Clements

North West boundary

E372555019

N9082891

North East boundary is the road between K1 and K2

E37269738

N9077731



Old camp

E37263419

N9066845



South East boundary approx

E37270788

N9039307



South West approx

E37253444

N9049571

Keep in mind this is what I am getting from my anti-poaching guys, so may
not be exact spots, but should be close. The South West area is mountains.
The MN boundary to the Selous covers 60km South to North.

Here's what I found:
a translator spreadsheet that converts UTM to lat long and vice versa.

Once I figured out that the E37 meant UTM zone 37 then six digits of Easting, then things worked out. There is a mystery extra digit in the first line that threw me off. I assumed there was an extra repeated 5.

Then the converter above, gets me what I needed.

Just in case anyone looks for this in future, here's the approximate corners from Adam Clements' anti-poaching patrol:

NW 8.29058S ,36.77586E
NE 8.338S, 36.909E
SE 8.68532S, 36.9168E
SW 8.59166S, 36.7598E

Old camp 8.43604S, 36.85129E

The village of Mavimba is the small square West of the concession.


Using these corners the concession stretches about 18x45 kilometers.

EDIT TO ADD: Adam says these are the corners of the best and practical hunting areas, but the leagal concession is actually bigger.

Excellent sluething Don! They didn't look like UTM to me.

Will update my GoogleEarth database with the new coordinates.

Cheers,
Canuck

I had my GPS in Zim last season, couldn't figure out why my GPS and the map in camp weren't coordinating. I had not idea the map was UTM (didn't know what that meant).

I have spent the last hour on the internet and have learned how to read UTM coordinates and how to set my GPS to read out in UTM. This season, I'll be back in the same camp, so I should be good to go on the coordinating my GPS with the map in camp.

Regards,

Terry

Thanks Don. I think I've figured out where the old camp is in relation to the picture you posted, thought I didn't see coordinates for the new camp. Also, did you check and see if the camp coordinates from Saeed and Adam matched?

I am looking at booking the 2007 hunt, and being able to "see" the area like this is a fun way to spend my time on the internet.

Snake,

Saeed's and Adam's coordinates for the old camp differed by a few hundred meters, if I remember correctly.

As of last week Adam had not yet made up his mind about where to put this year's camp in Mahenge North.

I did all this to be able to buy the proper high resolution satellite photo from Terraserver for Adam. He is using the pics (in conjunction with remembered details) as maps to decide where to put roads and camps, etc.

He is hunting in Cameroon for a few weeks, but will be adding the roads and camps to the Mahenge North pic when he returns. If you are booked with him he will probably send you the high-res pic as part of your package. If you ask, he'll probably email you the pic.

The biggest image Terraserver can sell you is 2500x2500 pixels ($70). To get a 50 km square, that works out to 20 meters per pixel. Uncompressed this image would be about 18 MBytes, but they compress it to only 1.3 MBytes which pisses me off!

Terry,

What type of GPS do you have? I am not sure if they all have the datums to work in UTM properly in Africa, but I hope they do.

UTM is nice, because the Easting and Westing coordinates are in meters.

What does the readout look like on yours? I knew about UTM, but I have never seen anyone put the Zone as the first two numbers of the Easting before. That, and the extra digit in the first set in the list had me baffled for a while!

I must admit Adams UTM co-ordinates had been pretty confused as well..

I've never appriciated how the full reference was given/workd out in UTM...In previous instances, I'd only seen the last 3 or 4 digits given for the eastings and northing to give conventional six or eight figure grid references and never realised the system gave world coverge...

So is it possible to buy decent topo maps of the various safari countries with the UTM grid already on them?

Don,

What through me was the fact that even when the "37" figure was stripped out, you weren't left with the same number of digits in the Easting as the Northing....I ended up doing what Terry did and read up on it...it makes a little more sense now..

Adams references would have made more sense if they'd have been prefixed with "37K" as the zone (or what ever it is) but its seems that convention allows that letter designation of the zone to be dropped if desired..

I'm using a Garmin GPS60 and that definitely has a UTM facility...

Give me a few to reconfigure it and I'll let you know what a sample grid reference looks like...

Regards,

Pete

Don,

After switching it to UTM, the GPS gives my present location as:

30 U 0496xxx
5867xxx

The display panel also shows "UTM"


Regards,

Pete

Don,

I have a Garmin Etrex Venture.

One of the other PHs showed me how to set the GPS to UTM, but I don't remember the Datum he used (I didn't know enough to look on the map to see what datum it used).

The grid zone for the Selous appears to be 37M.

My read out for my house is

15 S 049xxxx
utm 410xxxx

regards,

Terry

Pete

I have spent much of this year doing 300km a day in the Saudi Desert armed with only courage and my trusty Garmin V. I have Black Belt in Garminology!

There is a place in the UK near Gloucester called The Map Shop. They hold 1:250000 of most of the world and certainly 1:500000. The series is the trusty UK joint operations so the quality is good. They charge £6/sheet. The sheets give both a lat/long and a UTM grid.

I have complete coverage of Zimbabwe at 1.250000. Just in case I get involved in regime change one day!

www.themapshop.co.uk

So, Adam's coordinates would look like this on my GPS read out.

North West boundary

37 M 0255019
utm 9082891

North East boundary is the road between K1 and K2

37 M 0269738
utm 9077731

Old camp

37 M 0263419
utm 9066845

South East boundary approx

37 M 0270788
utm 9039307

South West approx

37 M 0253444
utm 9049571

And one would have to look at the map to determine what Datum to use.

Here's a map which shows the location of Mahenge North.


Regards,

Terry

I have a 1976 map of part of Zimbabwe (actually Rhodesia on the map). Its Datum is "Modified Clarke 1880 Spheroid" which is not on my GPS.

I wonder if there is a modern equivalent to that datum?

Regards,

Terry

Deerdogs,

What is the Datum for your maps of Zim?

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Deerdogs,

What is the Datum for your maps of Zim?

Regards,

Terry

Terry

I am flying into the UK tonight so will post a reply in 24 hours.

Terry

I am flying into the UK tonight so will let you know after I have settled in at home.

Richard,

Thanks for that, its very useful to know...
I am betting what ever other co-ordinate system is in use on those maps, they will definately have lat/log on them...even our OS maps retain that...

Terry,

As I understand it, to use UTM on your GPS it needs to be set up to "UTM UPS" and then on mine, the map datum automatically defaults to "WGS 84" I think on my Garmin 12XL I had to select the "WGS 84" manually...that seems to match with what i have read of late...

On my Garmin GPS60, to alter these you go into "main menu", "setup" ,and then "units" if thats any help..

Incidently, the only reference I can find to African datums on my Garmin is the "South African Grid"...maybe the other countries in Africa don't have their own national grid system?

Regards,

Pete

Pete,

That is what happens with mine. Set it to UTM UPS and the Datum defaults to WGS 84.

I'm no expert, but I thought you had to then set the Datum to what map you would be using?

After playing around with my GPS, you are correct. If you change the setting, it automatically sets the Datum.

So it appears WGS 84 is the correct Datum for UTM.

Thanks,

Terry

Terry,

It looks like there are a few "automatic" selections...for instance if you chose "British Grid" it defaults to "Ord Srvy GB" which is correct...

On others you have to manually select the map datum..ie "US National Grid"...you then have a choice of map datums..

From that I conclude that some countries simply have a variety of map datums on their maps, probably depending on when they were produced and for what reason..

With regards UTM, I am still struggling to understand the way the Northing number for references south of the equator..

From Wikipedia it says:

"In the southern hemisphere, northings are measured southward from the equator, which is given a "false northing" of 10,000,000 meters so that no point within the zone has a negative northing or easting value."

So in plain English and using Adams reference for his north west boundry, the northing 9082891
means that the location is 917.109km south of the Equator? ie (10,000,000 - 9082891)/1000

Regards,

Pete

WGS 84 is the most commmon system of projection used to form the "Universal Transverse Mercator" projection. This is just a system of 3D geometry to "flatten" the curved surface of the earth onto a sheet of paper with the least distortion.

The "modified Clarke 1880" gives a mathematical description necessary to write software to work in that system. The "zones" are local regions of "flattening parameters".

Here's a link to a map of the UTM zones of the earth. It looks like part of the Selous might be in 37M, and part in 37L - and maybe even into 36M and L.

Thanks for all the help and info.

Man, if you guys aren't using UTM you are making life way too difficult.

The US Army has been using UTM ever since Christ was a corporal, and for a good reason: it is a lot easier.

AZ,

Actually, since the newer GPSs give you bearing and distance to any desired position, the best coordinate system to use is simply the one that matches your paper map.

If you only have a GPS (don't have a paper map), then the coordinate system is moot.

Unless you are laying mortars or directing artillery...

AnotherAZWriter,

I normally use British OS maps and they use a similar system. My maps are generally 1:25,000 and cover 30km x30km blocks...Giving a grid reference is very easy as it consists of either 3 or 4 figures making up the Eastings and Northings..

At that local level, UTM is exactly the same...What I didn't realize about UTM was that it also gave world wide coverage in the same way lat/log does...before this thread caught my curiousity, I never knew about "Zones" and "false eastings" and "flase northings"..In fact, I'm still not sure I understand how a northing reference is given in the Southern Hemishpere hence my bit of math in my previous post...

I keep on saying i will try to get my head around lat/log, but learning UTM "properly" will do for now!

Regards,

Pete

Pete,

Does this help?

For the northings in the northern hemisphere, the origin is defined as the equator.

For the northings in the southern hemisphere, the origin is defined as a point 10,000,000 metres south of the equator.

I read somewhere that they do this to avoid using negative numbers for the northings in the southern hemisphere.

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

Not sure! *lol*

quote:

For the northings in the southern hemisphere, the origin is defined as a point 10,000,000 metres south of the equator.

I think thats the same as saying for locations south of the Equator, the Equator is given a nominal false northing of 10,000,000..

If thats so do you agree with my math in my earlier post:

"So in plain English and using Adams reference for his north west boundry, the northing 9082891
means that the location is 917.109km south of the Equator? ie (10,000,000 - 9082891)/1000"

Regards,

Pete

Yes, I agree with your math.

Regards,

Terry

Gentlemen

This is for those of us who are NOT techno weenies.

The cheapest Garmin GPS's have UTM. Firstly if you are in the Northern Hemisphere turn the GPS to the "use indoors" function. I am reasonably sure this will obviate any machine confusion as to which datum to use.

Then in setup go to Units - you may have to choose advanced options - and scroll down to where you choose UTM UPS. Choose this and every waypoint you have or will enter will be recorded as such. To revert to whichever system just scroll in advanced unit options to whichever you prefer.

Remember that degrees, minutes and seconds CAN be different to degrees, minutes and points of seconds!

Hope that helps -it all got very technical back there.

Those funny little numbers in blue on a USGS map denote the 1000 meter grid squares.

I wrote a story in Petersen's HUNTING about how to use UTM some years back, but I don't have a copy. If you do a Google search you can find how to use UTM. Once you do, you will never go back.

And as Pete points out, there are other grid systems.

Gentlemen,

I hope you all remember to re-calibrate your GPS units once you cross the equator from the north to the south

Saeed,

Are you talking about the compass that's only in the higher-end units?

No worries!