Hi folks.
Anyone ever wanted or hunted a caracal over dogs.Its a unique experience.we have several hunting packs in the area. It's a fun experience.

CARACAL OVER DOGS

Not really my cup of tea.

Heck I have put so much time into Caracal & now Ratel I'd near shoot one in a snare, Joke of coarse, I really do think Badger are just a Cool animal, didn't really want to kill one, just have one in the collection .

Caracal I'm fine on killing a big Tom !

That would be a fun hunt. I have hunted leopards and mountain lions with dogs. It is not a slam dunk and it is exciting.

Fairgame - you ought to try it before you get down on it... It is not what you think.

[quote]It's a fun experience. .... That would be a fun hunt. [quote]

Some people just don't get it !

Hunters are in the middle of the biggest shit storm ever yet some of individuals still classify hunting as fun, a blast, etc.

Hunting with dogs should be banned - the quarry stands very little, if no chance of escape.

I think the Caracal is the top animal among the "lesser" game.

I once read about an operator in East Cape who specialises in spot & stalk Caracal hunts in winter - as the cats sun themselves on anthills etc.

That would be a real challenging & proper hunt!

I wonder who the operator is.

Looks like a great hunt!

Caracal an jackal in the Eastern Cape are like cayotes in the US. They're vermin.
There are two - 3 ways to hunt them.
1 by accident, opportunistic. You happen to bump into one.
2 calling late afternoon or at night with a spotlight 20% effective
3 hunt them with dogs 60% effective.

I personally don't like driving around for 10 nights with a spotlight. I am primarily a rancher and we live in a rural ranching community. I have my own varmint pack that runs every 2-3 days all year round.

When looking for a cat for a hunter I will then phone around to find out if anyone has a problem cat killing sheep or lambs. If we hear of a problem then we will take the lack there and hope for the best.

At the end of the day it's your safari and we will hunt the caracal the way you want to.

Just some clarity on the hunt.
regards

quote:

Hi folks.
Anyone ever wanted or hunted a caracal over dogs.Its a unique experience.we have several hunting packs in the area. It's a fun experience.

quote:

Hunters are in the middle of the biggest shit storm ever yet some of individuals still classify hunting as fun, a blast, etc.

Hunting with dogs should be banned - the quarry stands very little, if no chance of escape.

Fujo,
might keep in mind that the day hunting stops being "fun", people loose interest, which means there will be nothing more than sustinance hunting, which means the hunting industry as we know it will cease to exist, and we all know what that means for wildlife.
As for dog hunting being banned, I have to disagree with you there as well, there is much game (all over the world) that can only be consistently successfully hunted with dogs, For many, it is their heritage as well, mountain lions, bobcats, hogs, all range of birds, I would hate to see the hunting of this game eliminated which is what would happen if your wish was granted.

quote:

Caracal an jackal in the Eastern Cape are like cayotes in the US. They're vermin.
There are two - 3 ways to hunt them.
1 by accident, opportunistic. You happen to bump into one.
2 calling late afternoon or at night with a spotlight 20% effective
3 hunt them with dogs 60% effective.
4 buy at local auction and release just before kill, or don't take chance of escape and have hunter shoot in crate

Dave, you forgot one, I added for you. I am allways leery of a video that the first thin you see is a high fence (next to truck?) and definetely next to hunters approaching game. Please don't bother with the explanation of cat running through wire, we can't see bottom of fence, they cant run through net wire and that trap could be 1 acre as far as those viewing the video can tell. Remember, appearance is everything...

just my $.02

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
[quote]It's a fun experience. .... That would be a fun hunt. [quote]

Some people just don't get it !

Hunters are in the middle of the biggest shit storm ever yet some of individuals still classify hunting as fun, a blast, etc.

Hunting with dogs should be banned - the quarry stands very little, if no chance of escape.

I would respectfully disagree with your last statement. I am about 50% on mammals with dogs and less on upland game birds.

Try hunting bongo without dogs - not likely going to see one let alone shoot one. Same for cougars.

Try it before you discard the idea. It is a lot of fun and challenging.

A guy posts a link to an interesting hunt, one I enjoyed watch and then the "holier than thou" crowd comes on here saying how they do not like it or they disagree with it.

I wish the OP success with these hunts!

[QUOTE/]
Dave, you forgot one, I added for you. I am allways leery of a video that the first thin you see is a high fence (next to truck?) and definetely next to hunters approaching game. Please don't bother with the explanation of cat running through wire, we can't see bottom of fence, they cant run through net wire and that trap could be 1 acre as far as those viewing the video can tell. Remember, appearance is everything...

just my $.02[/QUOTE]

Hi 505 not sure I understand your post correctly.
Regards

Or some one is so rude as to enquire about some other outfitter on his post !

Sure you cant have Fun in this day & age, like doing some thing your Wife says you can do when you ask her !

Dave,

My comment was that it is not my style of hunting and nor am I familiar with the practice. Hunting with hounds has being going on since man walked upright and I am absolutely fine with the traditional elements of the sport.

I am at loggerheads with the need to increase our chances, and our code of conduct here denies us methods which are deemed to disadvantage the game which excludes dogs, spotlighting etc

Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Cheers

I hunted Caracal with dogs in the Eastern Cape a few years back as part of my bucket list hunt with PH Charl van Rooyen, and it was definitely a hunt! Deep canyons, flat terrain, gorges, streams, hills and thick brush did not make it one bit easy. I saw one low fence the entire time. We were successful in the end, with me shooting a nice cat with my Browning 12 gauge Citori. The dogs actually caught and killed a smaller Caracal before we got onto this cat later in the day. There's a bounty offered on them by the farmers and ranchers, to people like the black dog handler with his dogs in the picture, in addition to hunters hunting them.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Dave,

My comment was that it is not my style of hunting and nor am I familiar with the practice. Hunting with hounds has being going on since man walked upright and I am absolutely fine with the traditional elements of the sport.

I am at loggerheads with the need to increase our chances, and our code of conduct here denies us methods which are deemed to disadvantage the game which excludes dogs, spotlighting etc

Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Cheers

No worries Andrew. No offence taken.

Can it be that we all watched the same video? Where is the high fence? Where is this " trap" you speak of? I can tell you, (because I'm the hunter in the video) that first, the caracal was not taken where the opening narrative was recorded and at no time during the hunt for caracal did we hunt ANY high fenced property.
I absolutely enjoy hunting with well trained dogs and make no apologies for doing so. For those who say it is unfair only tells me that you've never done it and have no idea about what you give your expert opinion on. I can assure you I cannot wait to hear the pack again whether I am hunting bobcat, mountain lion, caracal or any other species that lend themselves to hound hunting. It is a very special and rewarding experience and I suggest you try it before you form your opinion.
I'll close by saying that others comments will not deter from one of the best hunts of my life, but we truly are our own worst enemy.

Contrary to what Obama said, the most beautiful sound in the world is the sound of hounds on a chase.

1BigDeer:

Hunting with a pack of dogs can hardly be called "fair chase" as the quarry stands very little chance (if any) of escaping. In most cases the cat will end up in a tree and even when you show up it will not be deterred by your presence as its main focus will be on the hounds.

Your only effort will have been the sweat you broke getting to the baying pack at the foot of the tree.

Bird or Gun dogs are a totally different kettle of fish as their job is to point and flush (at your command) which also gives the bird (or Rabbit)a fair chance against your reflections and aim.

But as Andrew said, different strokes for different folks.

Fujo - So every time the hounds are put on a track the dogs bay their quarry and it is killed by a hunter, because as you say, "the quarry stands very little chance (if any) of escaping."
CLEARLY you have not hunted with hounds which explains your misguided EXPERT opinion.

I know the area and high fences aren't common there. In any event high fences have no effect whatsoever on caracal and shouldn't even be mentioned. If anything it may slow the dogs down and give the caracal a better chance to escape. I'm not a big dog hunter myself but have done so with clients and respect the skill involved in training and handling dogs. You want a good workout - spend a morning keeping up with a dog handler and his pack.

quote:

Can it be that we all watched the same video? Where is the high fence? Where is this " trap" you speak of? I can tell you, (because I'm the hunter in the video) that first, the caracal was not taken where the opening narrative was recorded and at no time during the hunt for caracal did we hunt ANY high fenced property.

Big deer,
I watched the video posted, at :53 you clearly see the hunters running next to a high fence to their left. Listen, I have no issue with any of this, have enjoyed hunting with dogs most of my life for all kinds of game. There was no accusation of a trap, mearely the reality that for most, perception is reality. I personally would not leave anything to interpretation if I was posting a video. Glad you enjoyed the hunt, hope you keep it up.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
1BigDeer:

Hunting with a pack of dogs can hardly be called "fair chase" as the quarry stands very little chance (if any) of escaping. In most cases the cat will end up in a tree and even when you show up it will not be deterred by your presence as its main focus will be on the hounds.

Your only effort will have been the sweat you broke getting to the baying pack at the foot of the tree.

Bird or Gun dogs are a totally different kettle of fish as their job is to point and flush (at your command) which also gives the bird (or Rabbit)a fair chance against your reflections and aim.

But as Andrew said, different strokes for different folks.

So shooting one out of a tree while he is enjoying dinner from a dead rest in a blind 50 yards away is more "sporting"???? Thanks for enlightening me! I am referring to leopard hunting as practiced in Tz, of course.

I was very lucky hunting Caracal in RSA six years ago. We were following a small group of Kudu, walked around a corner, and there sat one, leg up, licking his balls. It might have been a bit overkill, but I stuck a 286gr 9.3x74R softpoint from my little Chapuis double in his ribs. He just fell over.

Now, I know how lucky I was to even see one, let alone kill one.

quote:

So shooting one out of a tree while he is enjoying dinner from a dead rest in a blind 50 yards away is more "sporting"???? Thanks for enlightening me! I am referring to leopard hunting as practiced in Tz, of course.

JDollar:

Is that how you differentiate between baiting a cat (which is an art) and a pack of dogs that have chased the living shit out of one and put him up a tree or in a tight spot from where there is no escape?

When the hunters arrive the cat won't even give them a second glance.

P.S. Baiting of Leopard is not restricted to TZ alone.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:


Is that how you differentiate between baiting a cat (which is an art) and a pack of dogs

A good houndsman training a good pack of dogs is as much an art as baiting.

Is it just human nature to look for something we disagree with or don't like to denigrate another's enjoyment/success? How is it that one can see a high fence and not see that the hunters are clearly turning/running away from it?
If perception is everything, it is no wonder why hunters are reluctant to post pictures/videos/reports of their hunts just so other hunters can tear them to shit. I am going back to hunt Africa again because the way it is going I'm not sure hunters will have much longer to experience the greatest hunting on earth.
For you experts, if you were not there to witness the events and you can't say something nice, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!

I do not think it is human nature at all. Most people are decent and good. A small minority are just jackasses and get their rocks off by being jerks. It's not enough for them that they don't like a method of hunting for whatever reason, but they think it should be banned so that those who get enjoyment from the sport can no longer have it. I am not a psychiatrist, but there is something wrong with that type of person for sure.

quote:

Is it just human nature to look for something we disagree with or don't like to denigrate another's enjoyment/success? How is it that one can see a high fence and not see that the hunters are clearly turning/running away from it?
If perception is everything, it is no wonder why hunters are reluctant to post pictures/videos/reports of their hunts just so other hunters can tear them to shit. I am going back to hunt Africa again because the way it is going I'm not sure hunters will have much longer to experience the greatest hunting on earth.
For you experts, if you were not there to witness the events and you can't say something nice, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!

Leopard Valley Safaris in order to address the dog issue I am going to move this subject to the main page so we can debate it there without impinging on your marketing and advertising.

Good hunting.

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:


Is that how you differentiate between baiting a cat (which is an art) and a pack of dogs

A good houndsman training a good pack of dogs is as much an art as baiting.

I have done both and vote for the hounds. I posted my thoughts on Fairgames thread.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

So shooting one out of a tree while he is enjoying dinner from a dead rest in a blind 50 yards away is more "sporting"???? Thanks for enlightening me! I am referring to leopard hunting as practiced in Tz, of course.

JDollar:

Is that how you differentiate between baiting a cat (which is an art) and a pack of dogs that have chased the living shit out of one and put him up a tree or in a tight spot from where there is no escape?

When the hunters arrive the cat won't even give them a second glance.

P.S. Baiting of Leopard is not restricted to TZ alone.

that's strange. the one I killed in Botswana completely ignored the dogs when I walked up and I killed him on a full charge just off the gun barrel. I guess he was the exception to the rules. Of course there were no trees in that part of the Kalahari and he was plenty pissed- unlike one that is lying on tree branch enjoying dinner. Have you ever hunted cats with dogs?????

quote:

Have you ever hunted cats with dogs?????

No, but I have followed and killed wounded ones without their help.

The example you have given is unique and cannot compare with a classic and traditional "hounds over cat" as done in Zimbabwe.

So if I understand correctly you hauled your ass after those hounds over the dunes and scrub until you came up to him face to face, eyeball to eyeball? - Man, you sure have balls!

Good work and congrats on your cat Sir !

That looks like a fun hunt

Hunting with hounds should be banned...but then so should baiting but then rifle hunting is unfair and bowhunting leads to too much suffering. Heck, let's just ban it all! Carry on!

I love criticism from people who don't know what they are talking about. Bad enough to hear it from the liberal media but we sure don't need it here. Good to know the cats don't stand a chance. I wish you would have told the cougars in B.C. the two times I was there and came home without one.

Let's go take a GOOD look at the video and swallow the BS about having the guts to get in close, checking the animal for size and sex, etc.

That cat didn't give a shit about humans at all, its main concern was the pack of dogs at the base of the tree and it had no intention of going nowhere even after the pack had been rounded up.

BTW once treed, a Leopard behaves in the same way - happened to me once with a wounded one but not with dogs.

The only time it was "sexed" was when the frigging thing was dead and the PHs wary comment before physically confirming: "should be a male", meaning it was 50/50 before taking the shot.

Damn, I would rather be baiting a cat and outfoxing it than having someone chase one around the countryside for me and waiting to be called over the radio to come and get it.

Dave
I hope Leopards Valley is successful in selling this hunt.
Ignore the haters.
JCHB

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:
Dave
I hope Leopards Valley is successful in selling this hunt.
Ignore the haters.
JCHB

Thanks for the support. As I'm sure you know this is a very popular method of hunting caracal in SA.

As mentioned before, above, we offer 3 options for caracal hunts in SA . All 3 are tough hunts and by no means guaranteed.

As for the sex of caracals . In SA they are vermin and both sexes are shot. If it's a small cat we kill it and look for another.

Fujo youre the AR EXPERT. " EX" is a has been an a "SPURT" is just a drip under pressure.

Africa isn't Tanzania and you need to stop trying to enforce your simple rules on others.

Thank you for your time. This is the first and last time I'll waste time on engaging with you

Have a great day
Regards
Dave