Mac- I remember our hunt like yesterday! Our 68 lbs ele was the best taken in the Valley for several years and remains so to this day. Tracking the lone sable bull that you shot was a highlight for me!

Troy a great guy who booked through Tim Herald has just finished a hunt there and had an awesome time. They were in buffalo twice a day missed one dugga boy but got another beauty by day 5 and a few plains game species that he did not have and then spent 4 days fishing! He is trying to post his report here but struggling so he might get someone else to help him. Hunting is a funny game and its never over " till the fat lady sings"

Personally, I love the east as with perseverance and hard work most of the time you are rewarded handsomely!

I could never see myself leaving a hunt early because hunting was hard on the trip. Seems those who stick it out get rewarded sometimes and that would be enough for me to keep going.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
I could never see myself leaving a hunt early because hunting was hard on the trip. Seems those who stick it out get rewarded sometimes and that would be enough for me to keep going.

Me either, but I would never take my wife on a Buffalo or Elephant hunt. She likes to hunt but not to that extreme. We just got back in June from a plainsgame hunt to Botswana which she loved. She shot 15-16 animals and had a ball. But get her on Elend tracks or similar and she can only stand about 3 hours till she’s done.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Mac- I remember our hunt like yesterday! Our 68 lbs ele was the best taken in the Valley for several years and remains so to this day. Tracking the lone sable bull that you shot was a highlight for me!

Troy a great guy who booked through Tim Herald has just finished a hunt there and had an awesome time. They were in buffalo twice a day missed one dugga boy but got another beauty by day 5 and a few plains game species that he did not have and then spent 4 days fishing! He is trying to post his report here but struggling so he might get someone else to help him. Hunting is a funny game and its never over " till the fat lady sings"

Personally, I love the east as with perseverance and hard work most of the time you are rewarded handsomely!

Me as well! I remember us thinking it might go 50 lbs when we first saw him!

As I said above in this thread, I expected that my decision to put an early end to this safari would be second-guessed. That has proven to be the case, and is fair and fine with me.

In all of my hunting reports, successful or not, I only report the facts of what happened and the decisions made.

In that connection, I want to make some clarifying points:

1. I was after buffalo. I contacted Buzz Charlton after my initial booking and added a tuskless elephant only as an afterthought.

2. My wife and I are used to hard hunting. As one example of many, last year in Botswana we tracked buffalo for roughly as many hours and miles per day as we did this year in Dande East. Ten miles, on average, every day, and as I hope I have made clear, not ten miles of walking on paths through the park. I could list many other challenging hunts we have shared, including many tough hunts for Cape buffalo, lion, elephant and hippo, but let’s continue with Botswana. In Botswana last year I killed two great old dugga boys in nine days. Some of you may have read my report. The conditions on the ground were far better than this year in Dande East. We could actually stalk and approach the buffalo quietly and see them when we caught up with them. They were cautious, but they were not nearly as skittish as the ones we chased this year in Dande East.

3. As I said above, it seemed to me that the buff we chased in Dande East had been hammered. I would guess the pressure must be coming from poachers based in neighboring Mozambique (or possibly from locals as well). That is part speculation and part observation. We could tell from tracking both the dugga boys and the herds that they regularly crossed back and forth over the Mozambican border. I have hunted Cape buffalo in three other African countries, and in two of them on multiple occasions and at different times of year, from July to October. Seldom, if ever, have I seen conditions this difficult or buff this nervous.

4. I presume that those who have asserted they would not take their wives on safari must know their wives and are making sound decisions. But they do not know my wife. Lindy is tougher than most men I know, and she did not complain once on this trip. She enjoys coming along as an observer, but on this trip I could tell she was becoming bored. Hell, I was becoming bored. I would no sooner leave her behind than I would my rifles.

5. I cannot speak to conditions in Dande East at any time in 2013, nor at any time before or since – except only during the nine days we spent there. Simply put, during those nine days the hunting conditions were challenging to the point of being impossible, and were therefore enormously frustrating. I offer my genuine and unalloyed congratulations to all who have experienced success in Dande East, whenever that may have occurred.

6. For me, any kind of hunting must offer more than a remote possibility of success. This is especially true for an African safari, given the expense and the degree of effort required in terms of planning every aspect of the trip, including the details of international travel with firearms, etc. This safari, in my direct experience and considered opinion, did not meet that standard; hence, I determined to cut my losses and move on. Fortunately, I had the experience and resources to make that determination and get that done.

7. As many of you have said, there is always next time. This will not be my last African safari, God willing. My next two safaris with local varieties of buffalo on license are already booked (to Cameroon), or in the advanced planning stages (back to Zimbabwe).

Thanks to all for your comments.

Not to be argumentative, but I think it is a bit of a misnomer to label an area or the game in an area as "hammered" based on one unsuccessful nine-day hunt, a hunt that was cut short unilaterally. This is particularly true when judged against the relatively contemporaneous, successful experiences of others. It also tends to denigrate the efforts of outfitters like CMS and groups like DAPU that do a great job of exercising stewardship over their areas. Hunting is hunting and sometimes Diana does not smile on us and the hunting conditions can be tough . . . I recall my own 19-day unsuccessful lion hunt when Todd Williams came in after me and shot a lion we had on bait. The true story about Dande East is that it was an area that was largely depleted of game but through good management, sustainable hunting and efforts to create year-long water supply points in the area has bounced back to holding a tremendous diversity of game. Perhaps I am feeling overly defensive at the use of the term "hammered" and if that is the case I apologize.

Sounds tough Mike. I can vouch for Lindy and she is a delightful lady to hunt with.

Thanks, Andrew, for your kind words.

Nine days of hunting buffalo for 10 to 12 hours per day in a concession the size of Dande East allows plenty of time to judge whether the animals have been pressured.

I have reported what happened and will not reiterate nor argue about it.

But further to the point, since I did not mention this in my report, I will add that two random bulls we followed had badly deformed hooves. They were clearly injuries sustained from poachers’ steel snares.

Pressure of this kind does not make the animals impossible to chase and kill, but there can be no doubt that it lengthens the odds against success.

This was especially true when we were there, given the heavy and thorny vegetation and thick carpets of dead leaves we encountered in the field.

Thanks again to all for your comments (and commiseration).

Terrific report and a true account of the situation you were dealing with. There needs to be more of these honest reports as they serve the general public well and are invaluable. Most hunters realize (over a long number of years hunting) that time of the year can play a critical factor in success. Turns out this was an expensive walk in the park, but your experiences, good and bad have been invaluable to others and yourself.

Memories are both made by the good the bad and the ugly.

Thanks for posting!

quote:

Originally posted by AR MAN:
Terrific report and a true account of the situation you were dealing with. There needs to be more of these honest reports as they serve the general public well and are invaluable. Most hunters realize (over a long number of years hunting) that time of the year can play a critical factor in success. Turns out this was an expensive walk in the park, but your experiences, good and bad have been invaluable to others and yourself.

Memories are both made by the good the bad and the ugly.

Thanks for posting!

+1

Well said.

And thanks for your well mannered replies. You are obviously a gentleman. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Dande is not for the faint of heart. Last year I was at Dande North hunting leopard, buffalo and tuskless. I got the first two but after approaching over 125 elephants we did not see any shootable cows.

Keith chatted with Buzz who suggested we move to Dande East. 169th elephant was the one I ended up shooting. While hunting elephant we did come across plenty of buffalo I even asked if I could take another one, but there was only one tag left along with a roan and it was reserved for another hunter coming after me. Overall, I walked 119 miles up and down the hills and in the jess.

Now, my hunt was August 1-21 and Dande east was after day 14 or so.

This year I was at Nyakasanga and the buffalo were in the jess as even though it was August there were still pans in the thick jess. We tracked, and tracked them. In one instance we were down to two bottles of water and 7 km from the road and the buffalo were going deeper into the jess. We decided to pick up their trail the next day. We ended up doing a 15K hike overall in 5.5 hours chasing and bumping them. They were skittish I guess as we saw lion tracks on top of their tracks. I did end up getting my buffalo the next day.

By definition an elephant or a buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe means one will get scratched up. One is not glassing from a truck and walking a hundred meters or so and taking a shot like they do in RSA.

After 15K in the jess.

Not everyone's cup of tea.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Not everyone's cup of tea.

But a real HUNT.
I have walked over 35 ks in one day hunting.

I drink before we leave camp, and never drink on the move.

Only when we get back to the truck, no matter what time.

The only time I can remember drinking from the water we carried, was when Roy shot an old buffalo.

We went up into some hills, and found a very old bull.

He was probably deaf, as he was facing away from us, in the open, and Alan was calling him and he never turned.

I was laughing so much I could hardly stand.

Eventually he did turn, and Roy shot him.

It was early in the morning, and the truck was quite far away.

Alan left us, Roy, me and the game scout, before 9.

We expected them back with the truck by midday latest.

Midday came and gone. 4 Oclock came and gone!

The road was about a kilometer away from us, so I suggested to Roy we should move there, and start walking to camp, before the sun sets.

a bit later, we drank some water each, and were starting on our way,when Alan and one of our trackers arrived.

They could not get the truck to us.

WE cut the buffalo head, and carried to to the truck.

Saeed you exercise daily and are habituated to a hot climate. You are in remarkable condition.

I was waiting for a friend in the desert last month, at 2 in the afternoon.

I was parked on top of a sand dune, the temperature gage in my car said 47 degrees C.

Out of curiosity, I thought of getting out of the cool inside the car and see how it feels.

I was very surprised, as it did not feel that hot at all.

Got my drone out, and flew off looking for camels.

Remarkably, I found a herd lying down in the middle of nowhere.

They did not seem to be bothered at all.

There was quite a breeze though.

I usually scan these hunt reports every few months to stay up to date on hunting situations in various places; and came upon this post.

I hunted the Dande East for 8 days at the end of August (Karunga), before transferring to the Zambezi River for Tiger Fish (Matombo). I also hunted with Keith as you did.

Before booking my hunt, I specifically asked for a tough free-range hunt. I wanted to earn this one the hard way, and understood the risks involved with that request.

I met Keith at this year's DSC convention, and he was very straightforward about my wife and I having our fitness on par. I ran every day for months leading up to that hunt.

Dande East was as harsh as you described, but with the added pleasure of hunting in 40-degree celsius weather for most of the days. It took me 5 days, walking 20km each day, to get a buff. My arms, legs, and clothes looked like I was was tangled in razor-wire for a week.

I spent the remaining 3 days looking for sable, and finally connected with one on the last hour of the last day. We were literally sprinting to keep up with the sable and close the deal before the sun disappeared. What a hunt!

In all; I harvested a buff, impala, warthog, and sable in 8 days. Even in early September, the Dande East was so thick that you wouldn't get a glimpse of an animal until you were really close (late rains).

The Buffalo we did encounter were extremely skittish, just like you reported. But I don't believe this is a result of poaching efforts or over-hunting. There were lions everywhere. We even had lions tracking the same buffalo we were on; which was undoubtedly responsible for the buffalo's overly-nervous behavior. Add to this, the fact that we were walking on a 6" blanket of dry leaves, so the animals definitely had the upper hand. What a great hunt.

To top the trip off, At Matombo camp I landed a 25# tiger fish!!!! The absolute fish of a lifetime.

Keith and his crew were a pleasure to hunt with. Buzz was constantly checking in on me to make sure I was happy and had everything I needed. Buzz also contacted me many times before the hunt to make sure I was squared away.

I had nothing but positive experiences with every member of CMS. Even though I didn't hunt with Buzz, he took a keen interest in me and I got the impression that he's the type of business owner that will do anything in his power to make a client happy.

After nine days of striking out in the Dande East, I would have taken Buzz up on his offer to transfer you to another camp. Buzz even paid your air charter to Vic Falls! How many other operators would make clients such an offer?

It's also regrettable that you ducked-out of the hunt early. I always seem to get that perfect trophy in the last hours of the last day, or that huge marlin in the final hours after trolling the ocean to a froth for a week. But I also understand that you were probably dealing with an unhappy wife. That does complicate the matter.

I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with Buzz or any other member of the CMS team. As much as I bled and sweat in the Dande East; I miss that place already.

Thanks for the report. Keith "Brick" Wall...I like that!

"The same thick vegetation that gave this hunt its character also made it very difficult. I recommend you only consider this early season hunt if you are accepting of the fact that much will be hidden by that vegetation. The presence of abundant water means the animals are not required to congregate near pans of water. Hunting early season is much more difficult than hunting late season from a visibility and perceived game density standpoint."

'Nuff said!

LINK

Thanks for your report and comments desert dog.

I appreciate the info and I am sure others do as well. I only wish I knew then what I know now.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
...
6. For me, any kind of hunting must offer more than a remote possibility of success. This is especially true for an African safari, given the expense and the degree of effort required in terms of planning every aspect of the trip, including the details of international travel with firearms, etc. This safari, in my direct experience and considered opinion, did not meet that standard; hence, I determined to cut my losses and move on. ...

But, but, you took a shot AND MISSED. To me that right there was a solid possibility of success in the hunt and meets the standard you outlined above.

Are you saying the outfitter needs to get you to point blank range and guide the rifle so you do not miss.?

I could see your point if you did not have the opportunity to take a shot. However, you had that opportunity. It is not the area or the outfitter that made you miss a shot at the buffalo.

tanks, you have a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
"The same thick vegetation that gave this hunt its character also made it very difficult. I recommend you only consider this early season hunt if you are accepting of the fact that much will be hidden by that vegetation. The presence of abundant water means the animals are not required to congregate near pans of water. Hunting early season is much more difficult than hunting late season from a visibility and perceived game density standpoint."

'Nuff said!

LINK

Kinda depends on when it’s said and by whom, Frostbit.

I missed your hunt report. It is interesting reading. Thanks for the link.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
"The same thick vegetation that gave this hunt its character also made it very difficult. I recommend you only consider this early season hunt if you are accepting of the fact that much will be hidden by that vegetation. The presence of abundant water means the animals are not required to congregate near pans of water. Hunting early season is much more difficult than hunting late season from a visibility and perceived game density standpoint."

'Nuff said!

LINK

Kinda depends on when it’s said and by whom, Frostbit.

I missed your hunt report. It is interesting reading. Thanks for the link.

It’s a quote from my hunt report in the link describing the Dande in early season. So it’s said by me in 2015.



Glad you liked the read.

I know that. And appreciate it.

Only wish I had seen it then and learned from it then and later.

Hell does not equal heaven.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I know that. And appreciate it.

Only wish I had seen it then and learned from it then and later.

Hell does not equal heaven.

Mike,

I'm really not good at cryptic references but if you mean that if something is so difficult that it feels like hell it can't possibly be heaven.

I respectfully disagree.

Our April hunt in the Dande was difficult, not nearly as brutal as 17 days Bison hunting in Delta Junction in November/December below zero with a brutal windchill, but difficult. I occasionally watch our video and know why Buzz repeatedly asked me if I wanted to have someone carry my heavy double. I was limping horribly. My left hip was shot before we went and needed a surgical resurfacing on our return. As mentioned Joyce was one year post Chemo and still had an unpredictable "battery" as far as energy was concerned. She only missed two afternoon tracking sessions. That said, we would repeat it again in a heart beat.

I knew what we were in for. There were reports from people like Mr. Jines already on AR about early season hunts in the area, but we chose that timeframe for the very reasons represented in our hunt report. We saw flowers never seen before, insects never experienced before, and we embraced the suck of the thick Jesse. It's about the experience for us.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Cheers
Jim

I respect that Frostbit.

Someone made the comment that Mike got a shot off so he should be happy and had a chance or something of that sort. I totally disagree. I was stalking a herd zebra with a friend and the PH which is very well respected on AR told my friend to follow the tree up until it splits off to the left and you will see a brown leaf and that’s where I want you to shoot. My friend shot, blood hit the ground but zebra was never recovered. Zebra was paid for, but far worse is that now you have a wounded zebra.That was the last time he shot at a leaf.

I had an incident about 10 years ago while lion hunting where a unwounded lion took off running away from us at about 40 yards. Two PHs, two trackers and the game scout all started screaming for me to shoot. With all the reading and research I’ve done on lion hunting I knew better than to shoot at a running lion, but with all the screaming to shoot, I pulled the trigger and hit the lion but never would have shot if they weren’t screaming at me. That being said I’m 100% responsible for pulling the trigger.

I could sit in camp and fire a shot into the air and yes there is a possibility I could hit something., What I’m getting at is that it’s not cut and dry for someone to say that you got a shot off so you had your chance. Each situation is different and if you weren’t there you really don’t have room to talk.

Let me follow this up by saying I do not know Buzz or Mike but they both seem to be great guys.

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
Let me follow this up by saying I do not know Buzz or Mike but they both seem to be great guys.

They are.

Frostbit:

Thank you for that picture.

Now the rest of us understand what Mike was
Explaining about his experiences on this hunt.

The only two times I've ever cut a hunt short was:
Went with a friend and his 30y/o son in their trailer, and truck in trade for doing some electrical work. Third night they got to arguing about which one was going to kill the other. I go hunting to enjoy things not be in the middle of such bullshit. I learned the next day one guy had to be to work and was taking a school kid home too. There was an open seat, so I asked to fill it.

The other time walking in 11 miles, gaining 5000' alt in just over 8 hours. Next day my knees were swollen so much I couldn't get my jeans off, and could barely walk on them for weeks. That was Aug 1970. I'm still crippled from it. We pulled out the third day in the same shape walking all the way out. On the way out my partner had a major horse accident hauling our gear and ten days camp with plans to come and get me. That accident busted up a bunch of equipment and $250 vet bill to sew the horse up at 1am once we got home. Taking almost 3 hours to do. Those were both Colorado elk hunts.

Mike I sure understand why you'd give it up.

Best wishes to everyone for a great hunt "next time".

Saeed: as for bragging about not drinking. You are damaging your liver and kidneys. One of these days it's going to start problems. Dr's have told me: "after the first piss in the morning you should be drinking enough water so there is NO color in your piss". Once your liver shuts down. You have three days until they bag you up. To me, that's one hell of a gamble for not drinking enough water to keep rinsed out. Wish you the best too, it's your decision and life.

George

Frostbit:

Thank you for that picture.

Now the rest of us understand what Mike was
Explaining about his experiences on this hunt.

The only two times I've ever cut a hunt short was:
Went with a friend and his 30 year/old son in their trailer, and truck in trade for doing some electrical work. Third night they got to arguing about which one was going to kill the other. I go hunting to enjoy things not be in the middle of such bullshit. I learned the next day one guy had to be to work and was taking a school kid home too. There was an open seat, so I asked to fill it. I have never had any regrets about leaving.

The other time walking in 11 miles, gaining 5000' alt in just over 8 hours. Next day my knees were swollen so much I couldn't get my jeans off, and could barely walk on them for weeks. That was Aug 1970. I'm still crippled from it. We pulled out the third day in the same shape walking all the way out. On the way out my partner had a major horse accident hauling our gear and ten days camp with plans to come back and get me. That accident busted up a bunch of equipment and $250 vet bill to sew the horse up at 1am once we got home about 20 hours after leaving camp. Taking almost 3 hours to do the vet work. Those were both Colorado elk hunts.

Mike I sure understand why you'd give it up.

Best wishes to everyone for a great hunt "next time".

Saeed: as for bragging about not drinking. You are damaging your liver and kidneys. One of these days it's going to start problems. Dr's have told me: "after the first pee in the morning you should be drinking enough water so there is NO color in your piss the rest of the day". Once your liver shuts down. You have three days until they bag you up. To me, that's one hell of a gamble for not drinking enough water to keep rinsed out. Wish you the best too, it's your decision and life.

George