Gatogordo: The other Kudu also measured 52" but had a wider spread and real heavy bases.

prof242: That's cool!!

Again, thanks to all who voiced their comments and I hope you all get to Africa real soon.

rslus

[ 08-12-2003, 05:14: Message edited by: rslus ]

Hi, Bob ! As you probably know, the PH Helgaard and his lady, Christine are coming to Alberta and British Columbia in the middle of September to visit the three Canucks who whacked leopards on his place in 2002. Hopefully I can get some more people to go there and hunt with him .. Young guys have a bit of a struggle getting going ... but I'm going to invite as many folks as I can for an evening of discussion, videos, and maybe even a cold drink .. If you know anyone who might be interested .. drop me a line .. We were his only (and first clients last year and all got a cat) You and your amigo got the one big honker .. and I really don't think that they have any more paying clients this year at all ??? The plainsgame hunt is excellent .. and with a leopard possibility ... not to be despised ... If nothing else, I'll show him the Rockies and make plans for my trip there next July ... (I love coffee and cake at 2:45 p.m. each day ..)

Hi Richard:

They said someone was hunting in August but that was all they had at the time.

I sent you a private email also.

Bob Slusser
PA

Bob, I just got in last night from a hunt to Northern B.C. I just sent you an e mail reply. If you don't get it - let me know .. I am hoping a bunch of the folks around here in Southern Alberta would be interested in the Namibian hunt .. It appears, however, that a lot of folks think that staying at home is safer and a more fullfilling way of filling the years .. as they free fall ...

Man, that is a big, fat cat. Congratulations! Hell of a good story, too.<br /><br />I killed a leopard late last month in the Selous. He was as long, or perhaps longer, than yours, at 7 feet, 4 and 1/8 inches, but he was a much skinnier cat than yours. What do they eat in Namibia to get that heavy?<br /><br />On my hunt, we had to hang many baits over a period of about a week. My leopard hit one of the later ones the very next night after we had hung it.<br /><br />If interested, I put the story and pictures in my hunt report post elsewhere in this forum.<br /><br />Again, congratulations on your persistence and in taking such a nice leopard.

Oh dear god.. I seem to have offended some of the grat hunters in this forum. That was not my intention.. But really you guys, you have to agree that this carhunting nonsense is not something to be proude of and that we all should do our best to make it stop. When shooting something from the car obviosly it is not the thrill of the hunt you are after, it�s just the kill. I would rather walk around by foot for two weeks and take 4 animals then be driven around a pickup truck taking 20 animals. Because that is what hunting is all about! Being out there, outsmarting the game. ANYONE can take a buffalo or a lion or a leopard from a car, that is nothing to be proud of. I hope that the PH in africa that allowes this are few. But I suspect there not. As always with enough money you can buy anything. I pitty you.

Mars060,

In principle you are right about shooting from a car. IMO there are only 2 situations where it is justified:
1- When following up wounded dangerous game in thick vegetation
2- When facing an unexpected and unprovoked charge by a dangerous game animal and human life is at risk.

However, we all know that it happens regularly even when not necessary. A simple example is when one has to replenish an "active" bait with fresh meat and one just drives to the nearest animal and shoots it from the car to save time.

The point is that it occurs even when it is not necessary and that, you are right, is ...."sick"! no sense in being proud of that trophy....

Hi Bob !
From what I read, I came to the conclusion and one does not need to be an astronaot to figure that out, the so-called PH did not have much of a choice, but to have you take that shot from the vehicle.
After fiddling around in its territory for two weaks and that Tom definitely got a hint, all of a sudden there he is.
It is looking down at you and its position is a carefully selected vintage point, otherwise he would not be laying there like that.
The PH, consulting so long with his tracker before telling you about the Leopard, definitely took factors like, the wind direction, incline and the position of the Leopard in consideration and decided that stalking up to it is worthless.
He obviously trusted your shooting abilities when he told you to take that long shot.
I would have taken the shot from the pick-up too, keeping in mind that you only get one chance at a Tom like that. It grew so big and old, because it obtained an university degree in avoiding humans and you would definitely not run into another one around the next corner on your last day.
Weidmannsheil !!

If you are going to take a rest for the shot does it really make any difference if the rest is (1) crossed sticks (2) a tree branch (3) a bipod or (4) the hood of a truck.

No it doesnt matter where you take a rest for the shot.. How you got there however makes all the difference.

Bwanamich; Glad to see that there are people like you in this forum. And I agree with you that there are situations when you should use the car just like you describe.

Marst060:

I am sorry that you object to the use of vehicles in todays modern safaris. I know when you make your first safari that your hunt will be done by foot only. I am surprised that your hunting ethics allow a hunter the use of a gun rest.
I am sure you will not need one even if the Leopard is laying uphill at a 45 degree angle and 300 yards away with a 4"-6" target. You are my new idol. Please enlighten the forum with some of your hunting experiences!!!!

Bwanamich: Seeing you are from Tanzania and I also used a truck to navigate the Sealous Game Preserve, how do you get around while hunting?
I am sure you must have a tame Zebra with an English side saddle.

rslus,
Not quite sure why you get so upset about this unless you yourself are not comfortable with what you did. The crux of the subject has moved slightly from "your" hunt to the issue of shooting from a car; I apologise for having continued this subject on your hunt report; it would have been best to start a new topic....

As for how I get around when I hunt, of course I use a vehicle to move around but when I spot my intended quarry, I make sure I abandon the vehicle a long way away; even if that means turning around and driving away from the animal for 1 or 2 km!

For those that use the "excuse" of it being "the only opportunity you had to take the shot...." I would say it was better you did not take that shot and returned home without the leopard. Your PH should have encouraged you to do so.Having a time limit on your hunt is not an excuse to shoot an animal from a car.

DB Bill: "If you are going to take a rest for the shot does it really make any difference if the rest is (1) crossed sticks (2) a tree branch (3) a bipod or (4) the hood of a truck."

It all depends on the experience you want out of your hunt. I like to stalk my trophy on foot in which case I won't have a bonnet to rest on. The stalk is more satisfying than the shooting even if it lowers your success rate in some cases.

Happy hunting!

The Hunting Report forum is for people to file reports after their hunt to share their experiences with others. I suspect the reason that more folks don't file reports is because of people posting crap that should be the topic of a new topic in he appropriate forum. I respect your opinion and your right to post it. However, have the respect to post is where it belongs.

Bob, you hunted hard for 14-days, and on the 15th day was given an opportunity to take a very difficult shot, which you made thanks to your hundreds of hours a the range and reloading bench. 99% of the hunters would have stayed at the camp awaiting their flight out. Congratulations on a well deserved trophy!

If you guys want to debate "ethics", or anything else, please take it to the African forum.

Regards,

Bill

"I am surprised that your hunting ethics allow a hunter the use of a gun rest."

Why would you say that? How can anyone get that impression from reading what I have posted?
And when I go on a safari ofcourse I will use cars to get from A to B. But the day I use cars the way that many of you describe in here, that is the day I stop calling myself a hunter.

marst069:

You are right, I wrongfully assumed that your high ethics hunting code would not allow a rifle shot using a rest. Hunters of your caliber can make those 300 yard shots off-hand at small targets.

Since you never hunted Africa, I guess we'll have to wait and see if you attain the "HUNTER" classification. Also, maybe you will understand the forum trip reports better.

Good luck in your safaris and education thereof.

Whatever...
I hope your next hunt will be just as exiting and adventurous.

Vehicles are used in various ways in virtually ALL African hunts, especially in Namibia! Namibia hunting ranches are huge, making foot access almost impossible. When plains game hunting, game is usually located from the hunting vehicle, then stalked -- sometimes for hours.

This type of hunting is far and away more sporting than sitting in a waterhole blind and shooting animals that MUST come to the water or perish. We resorted to this method of hunting only to help the ranch owner cull some older animals that were stressed because of the extended drought. But I still did not like it!

To condemn using vehicles to spot game, is to condemn 95 percent of all African plains game hunting, which, of course, is your right.

Go back and read "Horn of the Hunter." Even during this "classic" period of African hunting, most game, including dangerous game, was first spotted from the vehicle. Ruark even addressed this very issue in either this book or another one, when he admitted that most game was spotted from the Land Rover, but under Tanganyikan law, you had to travel at least 500 yards from the vehicle on foot before firing the shot -- a law he obviously broke many times.

By the way, great leopard. Had I been in your shoes there would have been only one difference in the outcome of the story -- I would probably have missed!

[ 11-24-2003, 20:10: Message edited by: GAHUNTER ]

To use a vehicle to get from A to B, yes... To locate the game, step out of the car and take the shot, no...

What I describe above is not getting from point "A" to point "B"; it's getting from point "A" to the "game", wherever it may be spotted, FROM THE VEHICLE! Due to the nature of most Africn animals having a rather high regard for life, however, seldom do the spotted animals hang around the road long enough for the hunter to jump out and make a shot. Once game is found, the actual hunt usually commences with the PH, the hunter, and maybe a tracker taking to the bush in hot pursuit.

Like I said, you'd be hard pressed to find single ranch anywhere in South Africa or Namibia that did not employ this method of hunting.

I must congratulate the individual on taking a fine leopard.
marst606
I am not sure where you have hunted, I suspect you have never hunted in Africa or outside of North America. If you were driving to a favorite hunting ground and you spotted a monster whitetail on land you could hunt. I have no doubt you would get out of that vehicle and hunt for that animal and kill if you could. You probable would take the necessary steps that you were off the road right of way before you shot. Nobody is perfect, I am willing to bet everyone on this forum one time or another broke a game law whether intentionally or not. Sometimes we break game laws when we do not even know we have broken one. We are humans, we make mistakes. I am hoping most of us would not break a game law intentially.
Here is an individual who hunted hard for 14 days on foot for leopard only to have eluded him and on the 15th day, there the leopard was. He made a fantastic shot. He earned that animal in every sense of the word. Who are you to critize the way he got his leopard. I think you should congratulate him for taking such a fine animal.

GAHUNTER: I know what you ment.. And that is not hunting.

Brooks: I am from the very north of Sweden, so yes I have hunted outside of the states before. And we NEVER use cars like some people in this forum do. It makes it alot harder, of course, sometimes we wount get anything for weeks but still I would never lower myself to your level. That is NOT hunting..

Now that you have impressed us with your smug attitude and unquestionable internet hunting ethics you can move on to other old hunt report threads and tell everyone else why they are not as rightous and ethical as you. We here at AR have been waiting for someone like you to arrive and chime in on our indiscretions. Where would be without you, thank God you have found us so that we may be saved. (YAWN....)

Marst060

You assumed something when you do not know how I hunt. I have gone many times without taking any game. I hunt for the hunt not to kill animal. You need to look on the otherside of the coin. I love still hunting. I bird hunt behind my pointing dogs every chance I get. Does that I should not use dogs to hunt, I don't think so. I have hiked around the NW territories hunting sheep, moose and caribou. I have hiked in the Wilderness of Alaska, British Columbia. I have used horses to get into the backcountry. Does this mean I should not have used horses to hunt for sheep, goat or moose, grizzly bear. I don't think so again. I support your way of hunting but do not condemn how others hunt. As long as they hunt in ethical manner and obey the game laws I do not see a problem. Does that mean the disabled may not use a vehicle to hunt out of because they can no longer walk. Many game departments throughout the world allow the disable to hunt out of vehicles and that means shoot from the vehicles. I am afraid you ego now has out weighed common sense in your case.

"As long as they hunt in ethical manner"
Using cars in the way many of you people do is not ethical to me. Then you are just in it for the kill, not for the exitement of the hunt..

"Does that mean the disabled may not use a vehicle to hunt out of because they can no longer walk."
Of course they may. I never said anything about that. But even if many of you are unfit you probably do not count as handicapped. If you do I appologize...

Get real. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Great story and motivation for the rest of us to keep trying- no matter the end goal.
I think you killed the perfect Cat. With his age as you describe and even though he was obviously still healthy, this might have been his final year.
I am curious about the bait animals killed. Is there a special fee paid for shooting bait? You mentioned removing the horns of the rabid? animal. I assume for a Euro mount. How does that work on a license for the concession/Ranch?
A wonderful hunters' description and the Journal was certainly a benefit to describe your daily events on Safari.
Frank

Hi Frank:

During the 14 day hunt we shot two warthogs, one Kudu and one Baboon for Leopard bait. The outfitter only charged us for one warthog and one Baboon.

Regards,
Bob S.
PA

I am a Namibian outfitter. Six of the eight Leopards, taken on my ranch in the past year and a half, were taken from the back of a hunting vehicle.
The other two were succesfully stalked and taken, after spotting them from the vehicle.
In the one case, the vehicle was used to distract the Leopards attention, so that the stalk could commence.
If the ranch was situated in the "Khomas Hochland", which is a mountainous area in central Namibia [like the 'Rockies'], the shots would have possibly been taken from the back of a horse or a donkey and nothing would have been said.

We hunt Hartmann's Zebra or Mountain Zebra in these mountains,in this way and if you do not have a horse or a donkey, the animal will be carried out, piece by piece, by hand on foot.

As an outfitter, I can only offer a quality, realistic, sensible, practical and ethical hunt, as far as circumstances and the clients opinion on the above, allows me to.
When the client pulls the trigger, he takes responsibility and is satisfied with what is offered to him.

Weidmannsheil !!!

amazing story, great trophies, and can a moderator-type please separate the discussion into two threads...

btw, does the outfitter/ph have a website... I'd gladly hunt with these folks...

I hadn't realized Oryx/Gemsbok were the same thing... wow, I feel dumb!

dasMafia

No website, but you can contact the outfitter, at email : fels-eck@iway.na , I am sure he will be glad to hear from you.