quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Yes it is a lot of money, but to be perfectly frank, anyone who agrees to book a side trip to another African country for himself, his wife and his two(?) kids that must have involved a multiple leg private charter aircraft and a luxury lodge, must be as daft as a brush if he doesn't expect it to be a VERY expensive excercise indeed.

Although US$17K is a lot of money, it's not an unreasonable amount for what was involved. A trip of that sort could easily have cost considerably more depending on the lodge chosen etc.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
John,

I'm not sure if I understand this right so perhaps you could please set me straight. Don't think I'm being rude here, I'm not, (at least, that is not my intention) it's just that the pics/posts/report etc just don't tie up with my interpretation and I'd like to make sure I understand it correctly.

As I understand it, you booked a safari for 1 hunter and 3 non hunters? Yet it looks to me from your pictures (with lots of smiley happy faces) that at least 3 people shot animals? Did you pay a surcharge for this or did you stick to the original payment plan of 1 named hunter and 3 non hunters?

>>All hunters were paid for. We originally had two but changed it to three in country.

You asked for a second vehicle to take people game viewing. Was this pre booked or a spur of the moment decision? As I read it, it was a spur of the moment decision. If it was, did you expect him to have a new vehicle just laying around doing nothing on the off chance you or another cient might want to use it occasionally? (To say nothing about an additional driver etc) In either case, what was the charge for vehicle, staff and fuel?

>>This was prearranged and part of the package.

You told your outfitter (without asking for a price) you wanted to treat your family to something special and to book a side trip to a luxury lodge in another African country that obviously would involve a charter plane (at least a 6 seater and probably a 12 seater) coming (presumably) from Windhoek (where it's based) to

The hunting property to collect you. To

Windhoek (so you can all clear customs and immigration). To

Vic Falls (to clear customs and immigration). To

The photo lodge to dropp you all off. To

Vic Falls for the pilot to clear customs and immigration. To

Windhoek where the plane is based and for the pilot to clear customs and immigration again.

That is just to get you there and then a repeat to get you back again, and then when on arrival, you decided it was too much money, you paid him 50% of his not inconsiderable out of pocket expenses which left him to pay the other 50% for your change of mind?

>>We used a plane throughout the entire trip (a Cessna 210 actually). Most of the time it was on standby at our lodge. So that is the plane we would use to fly to Vic Falls. I wired him a final (and complete) payment with extra funds for additional trophy fees before we left. I told him that also, but it doesn't seem to count. I would be happy to share all of my emails with you if you would like to puruse them. I don't think it will change this conversation much though. <<

I also note you seem unhappy about how some of the animals were shot. If you or the other hunters were unhappy wih whatever opportunities you were offered, (and I understand that you might be) why did you or they pull the trigger?

>> This is why you see my kids with more animals. I stopped hunting as it was not rewarding after rejecting two opportunities to shoot animals from the truck (a Springbok and a Black Wildebeest). My children do not have the same level of experience and enjoyed the hunting. When they are older they will have a firmer understanding of fair chase.<<

As I say, I don't intend to be rude, but parts of this thread just don't make sense to me..... esp when you say you spoke to the outfitter in camp,worked it out and shook hands on the matter before you left camp.

IF I'm right in those assumptions, I certainly don't think you have anything to complain about at all.... But as I say, I'm a bit confused by some of this thread and I may well have misunderstood.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Hi John,

Now I'm even more confused and think I'll probably give up on trying to work it out.

>>I know you are trying to provide a viewpoint from the outfitters perspective and find some way defend his actions. And to do this by "reading between the lines" of my posts and trying to find holes in my commentary. To really solidify your contrarian viewpoint you might consider contacting Kobus directly. It would speed this along a bit.

you say you paid for 2 hunters and upgraded to 3 in camp, yet the letter from the outfitter says you paid for a 1x1 hunt with 3 observers and he kept to that payment plan despite 3 people hunting. Which you didn't refute until now.

>> Myself and my daughter were the hunters from the get go. My twelve year old son, at the encouragement of the PH, became a hunter while on a game drive with my wife. It was unexpected.

As for the Cessna, was that on call for the duration of your hunt at your request and was it owned by the outfitter? - Even when a plane is sitting on the ground, it still costs money to have it there........ actually often more money to have it sitting around than flying.

>> I didn't request this. Kobus is free to park his plane wherever he chooses. During much of the trip I did pay for a room for the pilot. This was not a discount plains game hunt by any means. We were booked to fly in a private plane all over Namibia during the 3 week vacation. Next time I go by myself to Zim and shoot a couple of Ele's.

As for spending $6k for no value, as I see it you spent $6k because you booked a trip that you later decided was too expensive and chose to cancel at short notice and stuck the outfitter with a similar cost that he had to pay out his own pocket. Frankly, there's a lot of outfitters that simply wouldn't have accepted that loss for that reason.

>>I also want to go to the moon. Doesn't mean I will pay NASA 20 million dollars for the priveledge. The conversation usually goes... I want to go to the moon... Nasa replies sure it will cost 20 million dollars... I say ok, let's do it or not.

Not "I want to go to the moon... Nasa doesn't reply until I am on the space station.. then says you owe us 20 million dollars for the moon trip, please wire it today...

Anyway, as I said, I think I'll give up on this one.

All I can do is say that I'm very sorry you had a bad experience, but that I tend to feel you (unknowingly) bought a lot of it upon yourself. I wish you well and might I suggest that the next time you book a safari, you make very sure you get a completly comprehensive and detailed written safari contract that details every single cent of expenditures and all responsibilities etc for all parties involved and ensure all parties stick to the contract.

Actually, going slightly O/T for a moment. Your case is a very good example of why we're curently working on a new African hunting info website. It's not ready to go public yet, so I won't publish the address as we're getting more traffic to the unfinished site than we really want already. - But I'll try to make a point of letting you know when the site is finished and we're ready to go public with it.

Amongst many other things, it'll have sample contracts of what a hunter should expect in a good safari contract and might help you next time.

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
I have had clients that were unhappy with some things this year. How did we handle it? Eat humble pie and do EVERYTHING in order to make it right for them.

Free 500grains

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
As a "seller" I have been in position many times where a client begins adding options and new requests to an already complex project, w/o asking the price. While at first this may seem like fun and gives one the flexibility to do a great job for the customer, experience has taught me that the prudent thing to do is to slow things down a bit and make sure they have a realistic idea of what they are getting into. Most are innocent requests, but I am sure that some are hoping that these extras just get "thrown in". At best, come reconciliation time, the relationship will be strained and who wants to do business like this. At worst, I will get stuck, and lose a customer. Call it "professional liability", but in my book the onus is on the seller on this one.