VV Mark,

When I was checking out the GB forums the other day, I see that he is about to run the folks from OTT off of his board. He issued the dreaded "there shall be no review of OTT barrels edict". That is the kiss of death from him.

What I don't understand is how he keeps going. There are a lot of people posting over there still. Why do people keep going back to a forum that has that kind of heavy handed censorship when there are so many other quality online venues available for discussion?

GB praising the Taurus Bulls for months, and calling Ruger SRH's junk, and now he's had a Taurus problem with a different model revolver, and so he tells everyone Taurus is junk. He actually thinks he has a big effect on gun sales in the industry with his opinions, like he's some dam Elmer Keith or some sh$t.



It looks to me like fewer and fewer people post at GBO, and a lot of the replies are either GB or moderators. Some threads never get a response, and they've been there a long time. It looks to me anyway, like GBO's going down hill.

I remember when that forum was a very good one, and most of the folks here were there. There were some heated discussions here and there, but it wasn't too bad. He started cracking down on the flame wars, which is fine. I was actually involved with one, but I gave an apology, and have not behaved that badly since. Then there was the fallout with Bellm and others. The site went downhill quickly from there. I have no idea why people stay there, unless they have no idea that there are other forums on the net. It makes me wonder more why he banned the name I set up, when I had not posted. I more expect an email from someone laying down some warnings or rules if they thought I might cause trouble.

Forums act as conversations through the web, and for someone to moderate conversations and PRIVATE messages that heavily is rediculous. I almost want to say that he is anti-American. Let speech be free. This is America after all.

I do respect that it is his website, and he can run it the way he wants. I thought a website would be constructed to attract people, not run them off. How many web pages are there now? He needs to realize that he is one of many millions, perhaps billions, maybe even more web pages that could be visited and is very fortunate to have the people on his forums that he does. Apparently he can't handle so many participating in discussion.

Hi Mark,
Aren't ya'll a sponsor there anymore???????????
If not then there ya go. He found out who ya are LOL! Have ya sent him any of that awesome wood work that you produce for free?
I think alot of his actions has to do with the word FREE. Seems to me that most of the people that get banned are the ones that mention the names of his X sponsors that he has gotten stuff from and no longer does. I could be wrong
I guess Bushnell and SSK must really take care of him
The best thing to do is just move on and not worry about his forum.

I don't think we are a sponsor anymore. We used to send him project stuff, but have not for some time now. I don't think there was any benefit from it. Why let someone work with your product when he runs everyone off? No one will see any results.

I am not worried about the site, but I thought some would think of my experience in the past few days as amusing.

I didn't know a six year old could run a whole website. I am impressed by this incredible task.

The as$hole Randy Fakeman is a moderator over on the Gutless Bastard's "webfright". I am betting he's gone in less than two months. He truly is a piece of shit. I don't see how he's lasted as long as he has,but who knows,strange bedfellows???

I'm still a member at GBO, and while I haven't had any problems with him, I can see where some do. He has tried to get me rattled, but hasn't had any success. He is opinionated to say the least. I still like going there to watch a few boards. I really don't understand his way,but for now it is his site, so I take what I want, and leave the rest. The one thing I did like about it, was civil till lately. But I can't blame those whom left or were booted. I'm here under a different name for now, I just don't want to get caught up in the fall out. But I do like it HERE.

I to am a lurker for the most part, I still check the ponds classifieds from time to time but most of the discussion has pretty much been trashed by the excessive moderation. Years ago he threatened to ban me for disagreeing with him on a number of issues---In almost every case there were some software problems and "some" of the topics dissappeared, mostly the ones that disagreed with his ramblings.

As for his product review---most worthless garbage I have ever seen. The only product that got a less than a glowing review was the barrel from Mike (358 Bellm)---I am really surprised he hasn't pulled it as he did say a few good things about it.

Any way I am sure I have just earned my badge of honor and will have my account deleted--thank you for showing everyone how a site should not be run.

Guess I should consider myself special. I've had a couple 'run-ins' with GB on Bellm barrels and his single-minded praise of SSK barrels above all others. And I haven't been banned. Kept it civil and just presented the facts of my point of view. Still go there on occasion to check it out. Got some quality people in some of the forums, most post here, at Mike's, or Varmits or single shooters or Boar tuff also. Hopefully we'll continue to have lively informative discussions. Each board has a 'flavor' and variety is the spice of life!
Bill

Well, ran my own experiment above with the hypothesis that GB is monitoring this board and I would be deactivated from the site for slaming him---as some of you have already done----quess what, name and password gone. You have got to feel sorry for the man.

GB...

AKA TwinkiQueen...

The Man...?

More like the biaaaaaattttttcccccccchhhhhhhh...

Any one out there with a psyc backround that could, just by using what he does online, profile him without knowing anything else about him---it always fascinates me to try to fiquire out why people react the way they do to certain situations---of course this has nothing to do with single shot handguns---or does it????

I have a psyc backround, and it's simply a matter of...

Stupid is as Stupid does................

To All:
The question is, why does he even have a forum if he doesn't want anyone on it? There is controversy on all forums. Thats what they are about. All discussions have controvery or they would not be discussions.

I was going to leave this one alone but couldn't resist at least one comment, sorry its alittle long but it sums up my thoughts.....

I would say it all has to do with selfishness, power and pride. When Mr. Graham started out he was one of us, period. He started a website in the early days of of the internet when there wasn't the vast selection there is today and, it was succesful. With success comes recognition and, yes perks. In this case they came in the form of free goods and services which is fine and dandy for all involved and in itself is not a bad thing. It goes on everyday and if anybody wants to take the time to pursue it they would be amazed at how much free stuff is available. However, Mr. Grahams ego told him that he was a very special person because HE was getting this stuff. That, and the fact that his website was getting even more popular put him (in his eyes) in the lime light, his ship had come in and with bolstered spirits he was going to ride out his success on the high waves of life.

Well the internet started to grow, more and more people were coming to Mr. Grahams site and talking about all the new and exciting products out there. Mr. Graham started to feel his little boat rock, the center was moving away from him and worst of all, people had the nerve to use HIS site to discuss something he hadn't put there! This site is a labor of love to him, its his lost child, his pride and joy. He would rather see 12 people loyal to him and his views on his site alone than have 20,000 who might possibly start a discussion that he couldn't control or worse, have no knowledge about to begin with. So, he invited some people with quite abit of knowledge to participate on his forum, his thought was probably along the lines of, "I can't control the masses but, perhaps I can control 1-2 of the bigger players and in that way maintain control over the whole"

We survivors of the 1st purge know this didn't work well for everyone involved. Mr. Graham himself realized his mistake too late. He knows he should of just left things alone and rode his high waves in solitary bliss. He didn't realize that once one becomes 'famous' they can disappear and remain 'famous', had Mr. Graham walked away from his site never to return it would probably still be growing today and his precious perks would continue to roll in. But, like I said he made a mistake and shot his mouth off with out knowing the facts or really what was going on at all, he assumed that because HE was the 'infamous' Bill Graham of GrayBeards Outdoors that everyone would just naturally side with him, facts be damned. He was wrong, and the realization was a great blow to his ego, to the only thing man really has, his pride. Rather than admit fault and go on with business like a man should, he figured he could cut out the problem and it would go away. He didn't realize at the time how deep the cuts would have to be in order to save his face but make them he would because thats the way pride works.

With all the bans in place, some semblance of order reigned again and Mr. Graham started on damage control by bad mouthing and ridiculing all who had been banned and those who had followed the banned. The boat had stopped rocking, the center was moving back towards Mr. Graham and all was well. Unfortuantly for Mr. Graham he didn't realize that such a great blow to the ego system would create paranoia, one can relax after the initial threat is gone but...."What if it happens again???" He had a great site, many, many excellent forums where one could go to learn anything he wanted them too. He had to protect it at any costs. He still had a few faithful leutenants, and he knew he would have to trust them in order to contol everything he had created. With a rush of adrenaline he knew he would reign supreme again.

With the continued growth on the internet, more and more sites became available, chatrooms and forum groups were getting easier and easier to put together, without any knowledge on how the 'internal' parts worked, anyone could start one. New forums brought new people with new ideas. People who frequented Mr. Grahams site discovered these new and exciting places and came back to the place they knew best to share this information with all. Suddenly Mr. Graham found his boat rocking again. "People are coming in with announcments of new places, everyone will leave my site and I won't be the famous person I still am". Sadly, again, Mr. Graham threw all rational thought out the window. It never occured to him that these people were going to these new sites and then COMING BACK to his. No, in his own selfish, paranoid mind all he saw was the loss of contol, the loss of his drug, power. This time tho the threat was greater as now he knew about these other sites. Curiosity got the best of him so he checked a few of them out. To his utter amazement he recognized the people who he had banned from his own site! And they were discussing the exact hearsy he had banned them for, and the worst insult was when he realized they were in discussion with people who were members of his forums!!!
That thought, along with the fact that the free perks were dwindling and products weren't the quality deserved by someone of his statute caused that simmering pot of paranoia to boil over all reason. Again, Mr. Graham had to maintain contol and again, in his mind, the way to do this was to eliminate the problem. "The hell with consenquinces! Its my pride and reputation at stake here, purge them all! The bastards!" Unfortunatly the problem this time, like the internet itself, was much bigger than anticipated. In his mind these people that frequented HIS website were hopelessly infected with thought that went contradictory to his own thought, The purge will be a great one, on a scale no one has ever witnessed before but, it must be done. For again Pride and Power are at stake and it is a drug that Mr. Graham cannot live with out, he has become addicted.

He will survive this ordeal and perhaps the next one that comes along, and come along it will. If not in reality than in his own paranoid mind because that is how it works. He is not unique in any way. There are many, many people who suffer from this same affliction. One just has to take a short trip through history to discover people who had similiar afflictions, Adolph Hitler comes readily to mind as one of the worst. He controlled a whole nation and his paranoia caused the actual death of millions. We should be grateful that Mr. Graham can only exercise his desire (or disease), on one little website and have no real effect on any of us as a whole. We can choose to come or go. That HE can't contol and that is what bugs him the most I think.

As to why people continue to follow someone who is so selfish and paranoid and so obviously wrong? I haven't a clue. Why did people follow Hitler right to the end? Knowing for a fact that death was all they had to gain? I would guess that this type of people find it easier to let some one else take control, maybe they know deep down some things aren't right but, on a whole, it basicly goes along with what they believe anyway, and thats close enough for some. The little discrepencies are easy to ignore when your only other option is to speak for yourself and stand up to some one who has such awesome power in the eyes of so many. In the end it is individuals who know man for what he is,( flesh and blood) and have no fear of what an idividual is capable of that brings down nations and tyrants.

So in summary I'll conclude that Mr. Graham is a selfish, egotistical, paranoid ASSHOLE who makes a big ordeal out of literally nothing. Each time this happens he becomes smaller and in time he will create his own demise.

And thats my two cents, keep the change.

WOW KTS! Why don't you tell us what you really think? I've hung around, because there are still some posters I enjoy reading - guys I would hunt with any day and for the trading posts and classifieds. Too bad the place went downhill...

You know that was just damn eloquent!!!! Thanks

KTS1 you are the man. Very well put. I wish I could write like you do.

KTS1

Other than all that.....do you still like him?

WES

I just redid my PC so he doesn't know who I am but I just lurked on in to find this:

Quote:

---

Who's Online

There are currently, 36 guest(s) and 0 member(s) that are online.

---

Makes one wonder.

Wow.

My understanding is fulfilled.

I could not figure out why I was banned for registering, but now I know why.

Thank you.

Mark

Hi Wes,

I am not one to post very often, as usually the words get misconstrued and then jammed somewhere where it takes some time to dig back out. Hehe. If you were ever to write a book, I would for one buy it and make you sign it.
Very well written my friend. And I do consider you as one of my closest friends.

With respect,
Mike

Wes...HUH, I thought Sir Winston Churchill returned from the grave to write that speech....I was trying to put into words why I quit GBO 1.5 years ago...know I dont have to....thanks Wins

If any of you need another favorites link for your list, and haven't done so already, you should visit
http://www.bellmtcs.com/forum/index.php?act=SF&s=18cbb5f89c8b31dcd18844f17862e901&f=24
I believe they are looking for "Rejects" like us to visit once in a while!

The best thing about all of this. Ole GB has absolutely no control over here. Sure he can bash and ban over on his site. But here, he lurks in the shadows like a pitiful individual that he is. He can only read what everyone says about him and his website. You have to know that it is eating him up inside. Reading this and knowing everyone else out there is reading it too. Who was it that said "Revenge is best served cold".

Enjoy GB, it's our pleasure to serve it to you.

I always have a lot of things going on, when i bought "the custom grip" from His hand picked moderator Billy Marr, GB tried to make it ok that he ripped Me and Alan off because he was ailing and sick and getting old, I busted his balls and he backed off, then ever since he was critical to me lots of time in private emails, never on the forum,
Then when he started the thing about the IRS would be glad to know about dealers on his sight i couldnt take anymore. He never did ban or kick me off, I asked to be deactivated in front of everyone, which embarrassed him, I did get the chance to see who flung there selves to him full throttle ,tongue where the sun shouldnt shine, and I WILL REMBER THEM, for one day I will have something in my possession ,that they wish they had. One fella over there that really sticks out is Thomas Krupinski, he thrashed me and i had sold him lots of things fairly cheap and mint, also traded with him. Not going on his sight doesnt bother me much, because all that was left mostly were people I hadnt seen or dealt with, I like the Familiar route, I like shipping without waiting on the money, I like painless transactions, and that is mostly what i have had here.I go all over, yet I always end back here, always log here first. Im sure i have offended a few here and there, even a few names on this post, some i have apologized to and some can just get over it, the one thing I wont do is intentionally mislead, rip off ,or miss describe anything.If I really feel im right, I will lose it all before I break, If I am wrong I am man enough to know it and apologize. Sometimes I Break shitty on others quickly when attacked on a post i have generated, and I am working on that, but I cant help it ,I am defensive by nature. John

Just a question for all you guys about GBO. I have been over there for the last coupla years, and mostly into the lever action rifles, single shot rifles, and some of the hunting ones. My question is what happened on the single shot forum? I used to get a kick out of them boys, then all of a sudden, there was a big pissing match about their 3-4 annual shoot in Mississippi[I think], then the next thing you know everything was DELETED! Kinda vaporized, if you will. I agree, it ain't the site it used to be, and I'm not sure how long the NEF/Marlin talk boys are gonna survive there[seeing as how they/we used to be ]. Just wondered if anybody new what happened with all the single shot boys.

Mad Dog

To make a long story short GB forgot about freedom of speech! It's ok as long as you agree with him, but not if you don't. Also it became apparent that he would only allow people to talk about companies that he was able to get free stuff from. So called advertisers. If you mention a company or product that he doesn't approve of it's Trouble. There were other issues but that was the gist of it.

Mad Dog,

I can tell you something about that. He was reading PMs between some of the guys and got POed at what he was reading.

So he pulled the plug on everyone who was involved in our circle of friends.

One was his "best friend" that was still alive. Go figure.

We are now making plans for the 5th annual. If you want the link, send me a PM.

Cisco, hey where are you and the other guys, from that old forum hanging out? Hell, when you guys were there, I checked in damn near every day just to see what you boys had been up to. I used to laugh my a** off at some of the things you boys posted. I still look in at GBO once in a while, but it ain't what it used to be......

Mad Dog

Mad Dog------Sent you a PM.

What I have never understood is why anyone waits to be banned from his site. I saw two years ago how he was acting and decided on my own to leave, and I haven't been back since. Problem solved.

Like you, I left.....later, I commented on a topic here.....he didn't like it so he sent me an e-mail saying I was banned.......how do you ban someone that no longer participates in your forums??

According to one of the members of my board, he has made some comment regarding our board being member supported. Funny, the support that i have received has been unbelievable!! I believe that speaks volumes regarding the members enjoying the board....

This Gray Beard dufus will go the way of all the little dictators. He will slowly just fade away without any notice.

With that said, I will not think about him again.

Hi Mark, Yes, that is what i received.

I did not start Specialty Pistols as a means to "compete" with ANY other bulletin boards but instead to give us handgunners a place that is dedicated to just handguns.

The members of Specialty Pistols have decided that they wanted to branch out into forums for single shot carbines/rifles, revolvers, semi-auto's & etc... so we now have those forums too.

I havent had to "delete" anyone or shut down any flame wars either. I guess allowing the members to contribute (giving them ownership/voting rights) allows the opportunity for a more stable environment....