Well, my full-bull 6.5x55 Encore barrel arrived from Van Horn today. I have yet to shoot it and am already depressed. I ordered a 28" (actually wanted a 28 but was told he could do just a little over 27 but not a full 28", so that would be fine, I told him). Well, it does not even measure 26". The forend did not include a sling swivel stud. The forend did not include a hanger bar, either. That would have been fine IF he'd have at least bedded the forend screws, but that is not the case. And, the forend was to be finished, but it is not.

I sent an e-mail with the specs after our conversation and then, with my pre-paid order in October, sent a 3-page spec sheet in large type going over every detail of the order. Included were phone #s, e-mail -- all the details he could possibly need.

But last week, I became worried when he e-mailed to tell me he needed a ship-to address and that he couldn't reach me by phone because it must have been disconnected (it's a business line that has been in operation since '95). I told him to simply use the address I provided; he said he couldn't "locate" the work order at the present time.

ANyway, the workmanship on the exterior of the barrel does look good, and it may shoot like a house afire -- and I may love it. But for now, I am wondering why he apparently guessed at what I wanted instead of calling me. (I could understand losing the spec sheet or e-mail but can't understand guessing...)

I love my 15" Contender barrel in 7TCU that Van Horn built but am not starting out on a good note with this barrel. In fact, my wife asked if it could be someone else's barrel, which , at this point, could be possible.

I have e-mailed Van Horn and will keep you guys posted as to what transpires.

This is NOT GOOD!! Well, i hope that he makes this thing right for you!! Please keep us posted...

Just discovered: the THROAT is NOT what I specified, either. I asked for a max COAL of 3.075. I didn't have time for a precise measurement, but I just dropped a round that's seated to 3.145, and it did not touch the rifling.

What would you guys do?

Hang in there Bobby. All the TC world is waiting to see if he will make it right. Maybe you could just call him tomorrow and see if he offers to make it right or if you have to force the issue. If you have a copy of your spec's it should make it easier. I'm thinking he just isn't used to dealing w/ a large order like the TC-L deal. Some guys are great at their skill/art, but can't do organization to save thier lives.

Good luck and keep us up to date,
steve

Sorry to hear that Bobby.
Just think. We are only a very small handfull of guys on this forum compared to the thousands of folks that don't get to state there problems and opinions on here. Wonder how many others are having these same things happen to them. My guess is that DVH will correct his mistake, but how often does this happen? and not just DVH but all the custom shops. Is it just bad luck for the guys on here or does this kind of thing happen alot more then we really know? Makes ya wonder.

Bobby,
Curious as if there would be less of a mix up if you sent frame for fitting .
We'll see how it turn out
Hee Haw

WOW! Not good just GOT WORSE..... Sounds like time to send it back. I am hoping that you were sent someone elses barrel!

HeeHaw-
Please explain how a frame being sent in would have been a solution here. How would it affect throat length? How would it affect barrel length? How would it affect a hanger bar being installed? How would it affect a ling swivel stud being installed.

Sorry HeeHaw, and I don't mean to sound critical, but your post just doesn't make sense...

Bobby,
Sorry got your post mixed with somebody else's post.
Will be more careful in the future.
Whoops, HeeHaw

Bobby,
What makes all this a real pain is the hopes and plans mad during the wait. Give the man a call and advise him of your dissatisfaction. If his responce is what it should be send it back to him. If he is a reputable individual he'll bend over backwards to make it right. If his responce leaves something to be desired, get a refund and have your work done elsewhere. If he screwed up that badly the first time, he'll never do it right. Please let us know what happens. Good luck.

Well, I spoke with Dave today. He told me if I wanted, I could send the barrel back. It would be AT LEAST 2 months to get another. The reason for it being short: he didn't have a longer blank at the time but told me making one 28", like I specified, is never a problem...yet he decided I didn't need what I specified, I guess.

Told me he didn't make the throat length I wanted because a shorter reamer wasn't available for this caliber and that it was SAAMI spec, which I DID NOT want.

As to the forend, I can't do a hanger bar anymore due to the way he set it up, but he did offer to at least pillar bed it and finish it(something I paid for anyway) and said it would take a week to 10 days -- if he could work it in between jobs he's currently working on.

I will send the forend back to be "fixed," but I am stuck with the barrel as-is because I am not going to wait another 2 months (which could easily turn into 3 or 4).

If he would have been honest with me and told me he can't do these things, I would not have ordered the barrel from him.

Live and learn, I guess...

WOW, what a bummer. Here we was all hoping for a quick solution to your barrel woes and you get slapped in the face with it..I know Van Horn wont be getting any of my orders..

Push come to shove read the build your own encore barrel thread and start cranking them out yourself.

I don't know what else to say, other then that sucks. The barrel he did for me was just like I asked, except for the matte finish, but he said that's his version of matte blue and that's OK I guess. I know it's not what you wanted but let us know how it shoots.

Jules-
If he gets the forend re-done as he said, I MAY have it back in 2-3 weeks. As soon as I get it back, I plan to run the barrel through the paces.

I am almost tempted to do some of the break-in sans forend just to get ahead on this little project. I've never done this before, so does anyone know if a lack of forend causes undue stress on the frame/barrel or is otherwise a bad idea?

One thing I do want to stress about Van Horn: I have a 15" Contender barrel he made in 7 TCU, and all is perfect with this one. That's why I was so eager to have him make this Encore barrel for me.

But guess which weighs heavier on my mind: the great little 7 TCU or the 6.5x55 that was anything but what I had intended. And no matter how that Swede barrel shoots, I'll always have in mind what it should have been.

Bobby I'm waiting for my 7TCU from Van Horn. It was mailed last Friday and should be here soon. I'm thinking about another 221 barrel from him and also a 6X47. Have to see how my 7 barrel came out.

I know what ya mean Bobby.

Bobby
I know you don't want to wait longer for the barrel to be done over, But I think that it will always bother you that you didn't get what you ordered.

I went through the same thing with another barrel maker. Even though the barrel shoots well it is always a source of annoyance that it wasn't made as ordered.

All I'm tring to say is to think about it a little before you shoot it. That extra time for the barrel to be redone might be well worth it.

Rich Jake

Rich-
You make a very good point. But the thing is, even if I have him re-do it, it can't be 100 percent right because he now admits he can't cut the chamber a bit shorter than SAAMI specs. I wanted 3.075 max COAL instead of the 3.150".

I just wish I knew this beforehand when Van Horn & I had our first of several conversations.

Bobby I am SORRY to hear this one! So now
VanHorn........SSk......VV.......Bulberry ..Bellm

So far their has been some type of complaint with all.
Guess it just proves NONE of the are perfect.

The problem with it is you feel like you CANNOT trust any of them.
They all make great products....but when you are counting on it the most you get slapped in the face.
And becuase they DO NOT stock many barrels or they are a One off you cannot just return them and get another shipped right out!
all the pissing and moaning about factory barrels but the custom guys sure dont make as many as TC and seems as thought the Screw ups are about the same percentage

And two months for a redo?
Bobby I would ask for my money back......OR......have him build you a a chambering you want he can do right.
YOU ARE NOT going to be happy no matter what now with that barrel. Not worth the bad taste in your mouth all the time.

Just makes this sport a PAIN is the ASS!

Fireball

[ 12-27-2002, 05:25: Message edited by: Fireball ]

Hmmmmmmmm. I have to agree with Jules, that sucks. If the man couldn't do what you wanted he should have made contact with you and said so. Not give you what he "thought" you needed or what he had. Don't know what to tell ya bud, as it is your $$. Hope it all works out for the best for you though.
I will say that we all make mistakes, but if he couldn't do it as you wanted .............
Jeff

Damn, Sorry to hear this news Bobby.
I was just getting ready to order a 16" bull 6BR from them..but I have also been wanting a long 6.5-284....but was wanting it in a med varmint taper...If you trully feel you wont be happy with it even if it is a shooter, would you consider selling it to me? I could always send it back to him and pay for a rechamber...how much does that thing weigh? Does anybody know would he have to cut off and re weld the hinge/locking lug block if he was to re chamber from a swede to 6.5-284?

I would box that one up and ship it back for a full refund.....no way I'd accept something that was that far from what I ordered..... PERIOD....end of discussion!!!!!

Bobby,

It is really too bad that he has insisted that he chamber your special order to the dimension he happens to have with the only reamer he has (or all his reamers are SAAMI specs). What kind of a CUSTOM SHOP is that?

You could tell him to regrind one of his reamers to your specs then cut your chamber for an extra fee. Or worst case you could tell him to have a reamer ground to your specs and sell the reamer to you when he is finished - and send the reamer to you when he delivers the finished barrel. How much would it cost? About $30 - $40.

In the end it comes down to - How much are you willing to pay to get what you ordered?

Good luck,

Don Shearer

Don-
I would have gladly paid an extra $40 for the right throat length. But when I talked to him and mentioned the length, it was a "no problem" kind of deal. Same with the overall length of the bbl. This afternoon, he changed his story and told me it would be "several hundred more dollars" to do the throat a bit shorter than SAAMI spec. (I just don't know how that is possible...)

By the way, in all my talk with hime this afternoon and attempts to remedy the situation, he never once mentioned the word refund.

Bobby,
I really feel for you..... I know how frustrating it is to not get the product you ordered, especially after you thought you had a clear understanding on the specifications.... I've had similar problems from BB and DVH.

I was not going to mention my dealings w/ DVH at the forum until I'd had an opportunity to thoroughly wring out my new barrel, but in light of your problems, I think I'll go ahead and share this now. In late 8/02, I ordered a 50 cal Contender 16 1/4" long black powder barrel from DVH. I e-mailed the specs to him, including spacing on dovetail locks to fit a Contender/Pach forend adaptor. Estimeated shop time was 3-5 weeks. I ordered the barrel from him instead of BB or VVCG for 3 reasons: 1. I'd heard of his good work. 2. Wanted to see what type of work he did. 3. Shop time for BB and VVCG was longer; his quicker turn around would enable me to have the barrel in time for the AR bp only deer hunt in late October. As it turned out, the barrel didn't arrive until the last few days of the season (8 weeks shop time), giving me no time to work up a load, but that wasn't the only problem. When I e-mailed him asking about delivery of the barrel, his reply was delayed as he was on a hunting trip; his response indicated he thought he'd shipped the barrel to me two weeks earlier.... When the barrel came in, the Weaver base I'd requested (drilled for 6 holes) was not in the package and neither was the extractor roll pin. (I've since found it's easier to clean the barrel w/ the pin left out.) I e-mailed him about the scope base and I one was delivered (along w/ 2 pins) in about 10 days, w/o extra charges. By now I was well into the modern gun season so I didn't start work w/ the bp barrel until a week before the late bp only season started, about 1 week ago. Imagine my surprise when I found my Pach forend adaptor woulnd NOT FIT on the barrel.... The dovetail locks were about 3.5" apart on the bp barrel whereas they measured about 3.1" on all my other Contender barrels! When I talked to him on the phone, he said the longer spacing was standard for the "Super 16" barrels. (I don't think Pach forend adaptors are even available for the "Super 16.") He offered to make me a new barrel, but would be 2 months wait until he had more 50 cal blanks. Instead, we settled on him making me a Pach forend adaptor (w/o charge) to fit the 3.5" spacing on my barrel. Should be receiving it any day now. I'll probably have to modify one of my Pach forends to fit the longer adaptor. In the meantime, I'm using the barrel w/ a single screw Pach adaptor for 10" barrel. To his credit, he was very cordial in trying to work out a solution. Except for when he was on the hunting trip, he responded to my e-mails quite promptly. He was very plesant on the phone. I understand we're all human and periodically make mistakes; the real determining factor is how one deals w/ mistake and resolving it. I'll report more later, after I've had a chance to shoot the barrel fairly.

In your case, it's most troubling that he knew, or apparently should have known, ahead of time, that he could not produce a barrel to meet your specifications. From reading the forums, it seems like we're fortunate to have a good group of Contender/Encore custom gunsmiths that fulfill the job specifications 99% of the time, but every now and then, every one of them seems to have a problem of somoe sort completing the work as requested....

Bobby, I don't know what to suggest for you to do.... Seems like Dave's idea of rechambering from 6.5X55 to 6.5-284 might well be feasible. The Swede brass has an OAL of 2.165" w/ base to shoulder length of 1.693"; the 284, on the other hand, has dimensions of 2.170" and 1.775"; the 284's rebated rim might require a different extractor?

Gary T.

I gotta agree with Don Shearer's answer above.... It's spot on!!!

Either that or a full refund and go with Virgin Valley or if Mike Bellm's willing try him but I think he's pretty busy and either of these choices would cost a good bit more than DVH's prices.

Dave's prices are very attractive and his work seems to be pretty good but his customer service / bedside manner seems to be a bit lacking.

$bob$

Boy this one would make me sick. Either way, I won't order from Dave now. I know this is only one or two listed here, but don't like the reports I've heard of the way he responds to his own mistakes.

However, I've been thinking about a 6.5-284 for a while and think that might be the best remedy short of a full refund. He should be able to sell the barrel he messed up on to someone who would be happy with a TC barrel.

steve

I'm not sure if I will or not Steve. DVH does a very nice barrel job for the money. But if he can't give me what I want and how I want it then i'll go somewhere else. After all, custom barrel means>>>>Make it your way. Other wise, it just a barrel.
I have no problem with the 358x444 he made for me.
I always send or call my order to a custom shop and then I ask if this is a go. If they say yes then that's what I expect when I get it. I would not accept it if it's any other way then what we had agreed on. And after thinking{I do that every now and then<grin>} about it, Bobby should send it back for a full refund.

OK I am just a little perplexed now over this.
I have a Barrel on Order for a 6TCU with a 1-8 twist with a 28" heavy barrel for the encore. Yes I was going to have one built on the Lilja blank But Dave(vanhorn) will have the 1-8 button in about 6 weeks so I am having him build the barrel.
After reading Bobbys Post I myself got Angry thinking I would not get the 28" barrel. So I called tonight. Here is the story.

Dave told me......AS NORMAL he can build a Barrel up to 34" long BUT THE WAIT is 2 months MIN for barrels longer than 26"
Now I am willing to wait so it does not bother me.
While I was on the phone I asked about the SPECIAL THROATING and was it still avalible since I already have a 7-30 with a SHORT throat he made.
HE tells me YES he still does this But IF he does not already have the Reamer ground for your specs. then he charges to grind one for you.

So I just do not understand. I have had NO problem with Dave.
So my question is............DID he not offer the make you a LONGER barrel in turn for a longer wait?? DID he not offer to grind a reamer for you?? it is in his catalog stating that he will.

If I had the Problems you did Bobby I would send it back and get my money back ....But DAVE does offer what you want.....Up to 34" and WILL grind a reamer to your specs....It might Drive the barrel up to the cost of others but then My Vanhorn stuff is NOT as JULES Qoutes GOOD for the MONEY.... but As good or BETTER quality than the others.

I almost cancelled my Order with him out of FEAR But Now I will wait. He has came through before and maybe it is just a comunication thing or just a Normal Screw up. But I am NOT counting him out.
He has been FASTER and of ATLEAST the same quality as My JDJ309.

I am NOT disputing your words Bobby .As I said if I got hit that bad..AND I HAVE by others in the CUSTOM TC world I just Ask for the money back or in the case of Waiting Months on Months for something I just call and say SEND the barrel BACK

I only hope you get this worked out. I DID not Mention your problem..........I just wanted my FEARS Fixed.

Fireball

Fireball-
This is about the response I -- and most of the forum, for that matter -- would have expected from you.

Like I said, I have a 15" 7 TCU by Van Horn and love it. But if you followed the post closely, you would know that:

1) the original questions were sent in an e-mail. He responded in the affirmative to all my concerns.

2) I called and then discussed EVERYTHING on the phone with Dave;

3) he said everything could be done as I had ordered. And then he told me 18-25 days on the barrel and maybe 2-3 extra days since I was getting a forend as well;

4) I then printed out the e-mail PLUS a 3-page spec sheet in LARGE TYPE with all the particulars on it, including phone number, e-mails, ship-to address, etc. and stressed that if any questions or problems arose to please contact me. I included this with a payment in full (USPS money order)

5) He only contacted me (must have kept a recent e-mail of mine in his system) when he could not find any shipping info (and admitted he did not know where my work order was). Said he was swamped with TC List stuff...

6)I was tipped off that he didn't know where the spec sheet was when he said my phone was disconnected and that's why he e-mailed (he couldn't have tried to call because ours is a business line that has been in existence for many years). I then told him to ship to the address I provided on the spec sheet, and that's when he said he couldn't find it. And that's why my barrel was put together by guessing instead of the way it should have been.

7)Yes, he said I could send it back but that it would be a mimimum of 2 more months before I'd get anything back.

I've dealt with lots of folks on this board who know my integrity and that there would be no benefit from fabricating anything regarding this situation. You can even check my out on gunbroker (type in my name to check my feedback) and you'll see that I am nothing if not honest.

And if you don't believe me, Fireball, I personally could care less.

I sent DVH a sized 358jdj case for him to cut the chamber on the 20" barrel. I must admit that the chamber he cut was right on time with the sized case I sent him with my order. Even with a seated bullet the difference between my 358jdj and 358x444DVH is with in a couple thousands of an inch.

]Fireball-
This is about the response I -- and most of the forum, for that matter -- would have expected from you.

And if you don't believe me, Fireball, I personally could care less.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Bobby Sorry you felt like you Need to be such an ASS towards my reply!

I was and still am on your side. I in NO WAY posted that I did not beleive you.

Just do not understand the QOUTE from you about NOT being able to do a Special Throat or a Barrel longer than 26"???
It must be some KIND of Comunication problem since he offers BOTH.

I SAID I would send the barrel back if it happened to me .....AND GET my MONEY back.

Somewhere something does not add up.

Never blamed you...

Fireball

OK Fireball, I admit being terse in my response -- and I do apologize for that.

However, the following paragraph you wrote questioned what I had already stated and seemed geared to discrediting my complaint. But you re-read it for yourself and decide:

"So I just do not understand. I have had NO problem with Dave.
So my question is............DID he not offer the make you a LONGER barrel in turn for a longer wait?? DID he not offer to grind a reamer for you?? it is in his catalog stating that he will."

originally posted by Fireball: "Just do not understand the QOUTE from you about NOT being able to do a Special Throat or a Barrel longer than 26"???
It must be some KIND of Comunication problem since he offers BOTH."

Fireball: YES, he does offer both. But neither was correct on MY barrel.

He told me he could do a barrel just over 27" and a little under 28" (you lose a little in crowning, etc.), and that was fine with me. But my barrel doesn't even measure 26".

He told me the 3.075 throat was no problem. But mine is 3.156".

It is apparent he lost my work order and relied on memory to build my barrel and forend. If so, his memory was wrong.

So what is it you don't understand?

Told me he didn't make the throat length I wanted because a shorter reamer wasn't available for this caliber and that it was SAAMI spec,
actually wanted a 28 but was told he could do just a little over 27 but not a full 28", so that would be fine, I told him).

These are your words....so WHY will he not do it for you?

This was my question and the reason I got worried and called him. He states in his catalog he makes ANY length barrel you want...And I HAVE a 28" barrel made by him.
I also Have a Short throat barrel from him....I worried it was NO LONGER avalible....I Have a 6 mm order in with him RIGHT NOW for pretty much the same thing you want but in a 1-8 twist. HE reassured me that a SHORT throat he would do FOR A CHARGE due to modifing a reamer for the job and I would need to wait for both the 28" barrel and the 1-8 twist. The LONG barrels are Special order,,NOT a blank he stocks and also he does not have the 1-8 twist button for 6 more weeks.
HE CAN make barrels of 34"

So if I already have a short throat 28" barrel from him and he is WILLING to do another,,,Something does not add up no does it?
If he did not do as you asked then you know my reply......GET YOUR MONEY BACK.

Why will he do it for some and not you???
I never Argued you did not get what you want...I just dont understand WHY. I had to wait 3 months for my 28" barrel and for two of my REMINGTON barrels I have from him...BUT he did do the long barrels.....And the ONE problem I had with him awhile back..he was VERY Cordial with me and understanding.

fireball

[ 12-28-2002, 07:32: Message edited by: Fireball ]

Fireball-
If it isn't obvious WHY my barrel was wrong, you are missing the picture. HE DID NOT HAVE MY WORK ORDER TO GO BY and did not bother trying to get a hold of me to have me re-send the info.

Yes, he was cordial and as easy to talk to as anyone.

But that doesn't atone for my barrel and forend being wrong and also for the wait I'll have to endure if I send it back.

Bobby

I have been following this post and in all honesty really do not know what to tell you, except that I feel for you.

I think to some degree or another we all have had problems through the years with products not being what we were expecting. If you are like me, knowing full well it is not what you had your heart set on, you will never be pleased with it.

If a full refund is out of the question, then maybe the possibility of selling it to someone else with the intention of it being rechambered is the road you need to explore.

Good luck, and be assured we are thinking of your problems, as it could have been anyone of us, and from any one of the Custom Makers.

Larry