The high praise the late Colonel Cooper lavished on the Webley Royal Irish Constabulary revolver in .455 has stayed with me since the mid-1960s, when I first absorbed his wisdom in the handgun section of the Outdoor Life "Complete Book of Shooting."
Fast forward 50 years, and I finally got around to purchasing a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special. This is about as close as one can come to an RIC these days. I'll be handloading the Lee 200-grain flatpoint at about 750-800, but am intrigued by how the Hornady Critical Defense ammo that came with the revolver will perform, loaded with their 165-grain FTX bullet at 900.

I've long appreciated the idea of a .44 SPL as a carry gun, along with a .45 Colt DA revolver.

As much power as you want, with a bullet making as big a hole as you'd ever need.

I'm interested in your impressions on the Bulldog as a shooter and a carry piece.

George

George, I will post once I have spent some range time with this piece.
Thoughts on this gun from McPherson:

https://www.levergun.com/artic...gs-care-and-feeding/

Good luck I own two charter arms revolvers a 357 bulldog and 22 kit gun. Lower end of the scale for sure.

P Dog, I owned an older Pathfinder that I was unimpressed with. So far this one feels like a much better quality revolver.

Back in the day (1970s) I must have sold 25 or 30 Undercovers and at least a dozen Bulldogs. Mostly to the wives of new guys working offshore for the first time. All the guns were everything they needed to be all the time. Bersas, OTOH, not so much. Maybe they are better now.

I still had my Bulldog up until a few years ago and like most everything else I sold, wish I hadn't. Been looking at the Pitbull 45 ACP as a replacement. Does anyone have experience with them?

Tigger, does the Pitbull also work with .45 Auto Rim? Love that cartridge. Had a Smith in it once that was the most accurate DA revolver I have ever owned, and like a dummy, well, you know the rest ...

Sad to say, no Bill. It is designed to headspace on the case mouth like its auto brothers and has a mechanism to eject rimless cases that seems to work well. Also comes in 9MM and 40 S&W, both in a slightly smaller frame.

I have owned and carried a few. My first Charter Arms Bulldog I carried for 6 or 7 years off duty. One day at the range it just went click. The unbreakable beryllium firing pin was breakable. However, I still carry one. I would suggest the round-butt Pachmyers for shooting as I shot the 240 grain cast and 7 grains of Unique. It has a little recoil and those small factory grips are not hand filling.

Dutch, I have seen the Pachmayr advice more than once, and will take it. I'm going to start with 5.5 of Universal Clays under the Lee 200-grain flat point:

Did every-day carry with a Bulldog in 1973-74 (yes, I date that far back). Great caliber, okay gun, just couldn't embrace the mechanics of the one I had: when loaded the cartridges would drag on the frame (factory loads). Went with properly tuned J-frame S&W which I still carry .

About three years ago I bought a Pitbull .40 as I have access to a lot of 40 ammo and liked the idea of cheap shooting. It worked okay with factory loads but was real iffy with the commercial reloads I had access to. Put about 75 rounds factory (no misfires) and about 150 commercial re-manufactured ammo through it (no bang at least one in 10). Maybe that is not a proper test period but having a gun go 'click' a lot is a big no-no with me. Nor am I amused with defensive guns that are ammo sensitive. Traded it off to a guy that just wanted a glove box gun and was good with factory loads only.

Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
I've always wanted to play around with a bulldog. Can't bring myself to put away my .45 ACP's though.

Todd

Buy the smallest .45 you can and you well have about the same thing.

We never really saw these in UK, what with self defence being illegal, I always wanted the 4" .44 Special one. Some CA stuff was imported but not those.

But alas, never saw one, so got a Model 29 6 1/2" barrel from my late mother in 1978 as a twenty-first birthday present.

But those CA .44 Special were something else. I have handled the old "Bulldogs" and the CA was far superior...as the "Bulldogs" were gate latch loaders.

Mind we did have, my brother owned one, the Star PD is .45ACP.

As a concept and practical defence gun I'd say that it beat the pants off any Detonics or Colt .45 ACP General's Pistol...or any CA .44 Special.

I've had one for years in stainless steel. Never had a problem with it using factory or my own handloads. A friend wounded an elk one year and, while tracking it, I put four rounds in it at 75 yards...all chest shots. That stopped it even with the low velocity 200grain cast bullets. I'm surprised. But, have a witness and we got the elk.

Col. Cooper talked me into a Star PD and a 44 Bulldog as backup pieces in 1978-- miss Jeff.

Sounds advice back then- still own both -
the early Bulldogs were well built-
cannot speak to the current construction

What's your thoughts on the S&W 696, L frame 44 Special?

Jim

Never seen one myself AP, nor handled one, but the internet says they weight 39 ounces? At that weight a Colt Commander is light, flatter, greater capacity.

So I can't see what the 696 offers that gives it any advantage over a Charter Arms or a Star PD as a concealed carry all day personal defence weapon.

At that weight I'd think that a slimmer SIX shot S & W "K" Frame with 4" barrel loaded with 200 grain RNL .38 Special would be the better choice.

Or the old standby Model 13 or Model 65 with 3" barrel if weight is an issue.

Revolver concealement is about width and grip profile. Barrel length if 5" or under is irrelevant except for any weight it adds.

A 5" barrel in an IWB is no more difficult to conceal that the exact same revolver with a 3" barrel.

quote:

Revolver concealement is about width and grip profile. Barrel length if 5" or under is irrelevant except for any weight it adds.

That is what I found also having concealed revolvers for many decades. Now that open carry is becoming a lot more acceptable.

I am a lot less concerned about them being concealed and carry full size hand gun almost all the time.

Test fire yours and make sure it goes bang every time you pull the trigger.

Mine is THROWN in the back of the safe some place.

It was to be my EDC with the same bullet you are using.

Had edited on a bunch of additional information, but the computer ate it so I will just say it has been back to Charter 3 times and after they fixed the broken hammer block it still fired on occasion, the occasion of it's choosing.

SO

I THREW IT INTO THE SAFE and cuss every time I think about it.

Oh but that Taurus 431, heavy though it is, it just keeps on laying down lead!
It is just too heavy for the purpose I bought the bullpuppy for.

Yes, no matter the brand, a bad gun gets out once in a while and I got one.

A range member had a COLT 1911 like that . . .
Dealers gunsmith could not fix it, and he had it back MANY times
Colt could not fix it, and they had it back several times,
Colt would not replace it.
A simple 1911 and it just would not work.

One of the few, but it happens

quote:

Originally posted by TCLouis:
Test fire yours and make sure it goes bang every time you pull the trigge.

Mine is THROWN in the back of the safe some place.

It was to be my EDC with the same bullet you are using.

Louis,


How did the Bulldog fail?

George

By the way, I e-mailed Lehigh Defense to ask them to consider making one of their Xtreme Penetrator bullets in a lighter weight, just for Bulldog users. They only offer a 220 in .44, but a wide range in .40 and .45.


http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets

I have owned an original .44 Bulldog CA since they were first marketed. When I first test fired it accuracy was terrible. I spoke with CA before returning it to them for correction. It came back to me shooting like a target .44!

I have the Pachmyer grip on mine also. It makes a good close in backup for 1911's.

Did they include a shop sheet stating what they did to correct the accuracy issues?

George

I bought my 1st Bulldog in 1976 when we were doing a lot of backpacking in Big Bend. (I know,it was against the law...so?)The point was that at that time it was the lightest weight pistol w/ the most energy on the market.When you need to carry a lot of water weight is important.I've had several since + I keep one by the "throne" along with my phone. Never fails someone always calls when you are in a compromising position. NOT! Interesting point here on my 1976 purchase;I found a 1917 S+W + had to sell the bulldog to buy the smith so went down to bullseye shooters + sold it. A bit later the "Son Of Sam" killings went on in the Bronx + when he was finally captured they found that the 44 bulldog that he used came from a gunshop in Austin bought for him from an army buddy,the same month I sold mine.And they were kind or rare then. Who knows? I've often wondered.

Dan I give up on the updated info and then read on down and see that George . asked what was wrong with my bullpuppy.

Readers digest version

Bought it and when I got it home I looked in the barrel and it had machine marks in the barrel so bad that it looked like it had internal threads. Carried it to show to a friend that knows a bit about machining and he asked why I had shot black powder in it and then let it set until it pitted the barrel the chips/gouges in the barrel were that bad.
He was a bit surprised that it really was unfired, hang tags on the trigger guard should have been a hint.

Got it back from Charter with a smooth barrel and it would fire 2-4 rounds in each cylinder, tested the ammo in 5 (2 44 SPL, 3 44 Mags) other guns and the ammo fired in all of them 100% of the time.

Off to Charter again . . .
Got it back and started shooting it, maybe 50 rounds fired and it jammed. Hammer block had broken off, fell in the action and jammed the gun.
BACK to charter again . . . AGAIN for both problems, got it back and it still will not consistently fire all of the rounds in the cylinder.

It came back with the new hammer block and would consistently fire between 2 and 5 rounds . . . most of the time, and it would usually fire all 5 if I kept pulling the trigger enough times.

I am assuming the hammer block has a piss poor fit and is made of sintered metal or a weak casting and since it does not fit properly it getts unsupported impact and breaks off.

Just guessing, but . . . Poor fit causes misfires and the part to break.

You know what, my Taurus 431 just keeps going BANG every time I pull the trigger. AND is a precise shooter to boot.

The Taurus is just bigger and heavier than I want to lug around for the purpose (carry when fishing) I had for the bull$hiest I bought.

Thus, I really did THROW it in the back of the safe, in fact recently THREW it again when it came up to the front when I was looking for something on that shelf.

Maybe someday when I get over being pi$$ed off, I will take it apart and see what is improperly fit with that hammer block.

In the mean time I will just simmer when I think about it . . . .

Year after year!

I bought a 3" Classic model Bulldog, current manufacturing with Shelton on the barrel. That light weight is great for carrying but the recoil is noticeably sharper than a heavier model. Reminds me of the difference between S&W J frame 38's like the steel 640 and alloy 642.

My 3" Bulldog is shooting about two inches low out to thirty feet with five or six different factory loads. Sharp strong recoil, eeven with Pachy Compacs on it.

This last fall I rebarreled a 44 bull dog target that new the early 70s.

My friend who gave to me said that his son had a low powered round that cause the bullet to lodge about half way down the barrel.

Then his son fired another round bulging the barrel and cracking the shroud.

CA would not sell me a barrel so I found a 3 inch one at Gun parts Corp. For around 70 dollars shipped .

After replacing the barrel it shot very high even with the rear sight adjusted to the lowest setting. groups were 8 to 10 inches. it occasional misfired. This was at 25 feet yes feet not yards.

My friend wanted it fix so it was done. A total waste of 70.00 dollars.

Just another CA piece of junk.

I know the money is substantially more, but you can get basically the same gun (2 inches more barrel, m/l), with more reliability and the added plus of having .44 Mag capability in a pinch, with the Smith 329.

A Smith is always a good investment. A few years agoI went to the shot show when the "new" mod/ 24,Thunder Ranch mod. was appearing in classic .44 spl.I asked the sales rep about the LW 44 mag + he looked me in the eye + told me,I work for the company + I only shot 4 out of the cylinder;that light weight hurts.Now I still think that the 44 spl is one of the finest rounds out there,but it is nice to have the availability of the mag. in the same piece.

quote:

I asked the sales rep about the LW 44 mag + he looked me in the eye + told me,I work for the company + I only shot 4 out of the cylinder;that light weight hurts.

Same can be said about the super lite weight 357s but I still op for the 357 chambering just for just in case one only has the magnum ammo available.

Plus if you reload one can create loads that are above the Spl. loading but below full magnum.

I do reload + although I have several 357s I don't find the interest anymore in that calibre.Not planning on selling them,interests change. But I have always been a fan of the .44.I had a custom Keith # 5 built several years ago + that will do everything I need to do.Since it is built on a super blackhawk frame I can load to a wide variety of choices (all within reason).

Damn, had a reply typed and one came in twice now on yahoo and wiped 'em off! WTH??

Same brand, not a bulldog though. My experience with CA sucked. Sounds like that's common.

I bought a new Off Duty .38. It broke within the first 50 shots. I called and the guy said "just box it up and mail it" Oh yeah!! My ass!
Ended up paying a bundle to FedEx to make it legal. One day I'd been in the shop and came in for lunch and there was a box tossed on the porch. Could have been full of dog turds, but, it was the CA gun back. Just Flat Rated it. That's bullshit guys. What if I'd been out of town for a week or six?

It shot well with my plinker reloads 3.5gr Red Dot, 147gr SWC's. Around 300 I was cleaning it and discovered a cut near half way thru the top strap from firing. I called CA and was told: "we will not be replacing it".
Right away it found a new owner that wouldn't be shooting it much. Got my money back and added enough to buy a Smith airweight.

I've fired at least 600 thru it so far and no sign of fire cutting. It's good enough I can hit the 8" plates at 35yds nearly every shot. and the recoil is a whole lot less than the CA was too. Side by side you couldn't tell which was which. I had the trigger touched up by a guy that knows triggers.

You folks that have been lucky enough to have fired your CA's quite a bit, take a close look and see if there's any fire cutting in the top strap, regardless of caliber.

That's my experience with CA. I wanted American made and bought it against the dealers advice.

George

Sorry about your CA experiences. I have had good luck with my 44 bulldogs,have never owned their 38.That being said,they are cheaper than a S+W. I have never had a Smith disappoint me.

I had a CA 38 snub about 30 years ago. It was very satisfactory, especially considering the price. I'm a S&W fan though so I gave this one to my FIL.
I recently purchased a CA Bulldog 2.5" Stainless. It had issues out of the box. I called CA. They sent me a postage paid Fed-x box and said they would either correct my issues or send me a new revolver. I mostly wanted it for rattlesnakes ( shot loads). It feels good though, I still have my hopes up. I'll re-post when they return it. I've had to return other name brand guns to the factory for minor issues though so returning it is not a big turn off for me.

quote:

It had issues out of the box.

That is why I don't buy them any more

When one can buy ruger or S@W and not have that kind of trouble.

That's reason enough.When you need it,you need it bad + that is no time to reconsider cost.

NC... have heard the same, correct, thinking about motorcycle helmets.

As an acquaintance once told me the time to buy a £50 helmet is the time they start making £50 heads.

In other words if you only value you life at £50 that's fine. Get a £50 helmet. Same I'd guess in the US with a house gun.

Buy cheap if the thing's cheap 'cos it' s obsolete like a Webley. 455 Mk IV but not because it's of cheap quality.

Same with life vests for boating anglers.

For roughly the same money, I'd choose a Smith 437.
($400 at Academy)

I see Ruger is offering a .44 Special on their GP-100 frame, but at 36 ounces, it is like carrying a duty revolver.