quote:

http://thinkinggunfighter.blog...0%3A00%3A00-06%3A00&


THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn’t so bad.

We’ve all heard the warnings. If you don’t have a round in the chamber you might as well carry a rock! A gun without a round in the chamber is just a hammer! Anyone who carries a gun with the chamber empty must be afraid of their gun! Not carrying with a round chambered means you must not have any training! Well, my friends, as with so many of the things we hear in the gun world the myth sometimes overpowers the reality.

Let’s start with a clarification. Although often referred to as the Israeli Method or the Israeli Technique, carrying chamber empty (C3) is not restricted to the Israelis, nor did they develop it. It is gotten that label because of the fact that the Israelis popularized it as a method of carry and developed an entire method of presentation around empty-chamber carry. And their reasons for doing so are quite pertinent: a method of carry that allows safe carry with quick response time for (at that time) a largely untrained population with a diverse variety of firearms. I use the term as one that is easily recognizable, even if not technically correct. I prefer referring to it as “Condition 3”, or C3 for short. The history of C3 goes back to the early days of the autoloader, and is still being written today.

When autoloaders first came on the scene the normal and expected method of carry was with the hammer down on an empty chamber. The handgun would be drawn and the chamber loaded only when one was anticipating trouble, and the safety used as a temporary situation until the gun could be returned to its proper mode of carry, with the chamber empty. Lots of folks aren’t aware of it, but the 1911 was originally designed without any safety, as Browning felt it was irrelevant.

The most important development in C3 history to me was the adoption of that method of carry by the members of the Shanghai Police under W.E. Fairbairn. As the result of a number of incidents, Fairbairn (along with Eric Sykes) began to develop a new way to bring Shanghai P.D. officers to a high level of expertise with their handguns given the limited amount of training time and resources available to them. This training included, in part, carrying the gun with an empty chamber and then chambering a round as part of the draw stroke. This proved to be quite successful and when World War II broke out Fairbairn and Sykes were tasked with training commando units in close combat, including pistol use. They chose the chamber-empty target-focused method that had worked so well for them at Shanghai P.D., and for many of the same reasons. C3 allowed a person to safely carry and adequately use a firearm with a very limited amount of training. Fairbairn also wrote several books which also served to popularize the chamber empty carry method.

Chamber empty carry was the dominant method of carry for military, police, and civilians for most of the 20th Century. Toward the end of the century the rise of double-action autoloaders and the influence of Jeff Cooper’s Modern Technique made significant inroads, although chamber empty is still the dominant method of carry worldwide.

So, with a history of successful use behind it why does C3 create such a storm of controversy? Critics argue it is too slow, that it can’t be used under many circumstances, and the myths flow like water. Let’s look at some facts.

1. SPEED. The most common argument is that racking the slide during the draw is just too slow. The facts are that racking the slide is only one part of a complicated picture, and not a particularly important part from the perspective of speed. Let us assume that racking the slide adds a half second to your total presentation time (which is pretty slow, by the way). And let us assume that you can draw and fire at the 2 second mark. If the attack comes before you can draw and fire (2 seconds) having the chamber loaded or not doesn’t matter, as you don’t have time to draw and fire at all. If the attack comes after a 2.5 second time frame having the chamber loaded or not doesn’t matter, as you have time to chamber a round. Only if the attack happens in that critical time frame after 2 seconds but before 2.5 seconds does the chamber condition matter. Also the speed of presentation can also be affected by such things as type of holster, where the firearm is carried, and so on. Yet we don’t see a big fight over IWB versus OWB, or thumb-break versus open top, or appendix carry versus carry at 4:30, although each of those can impact the speed of presentation just as much or more than chamber empty versus chamber loaded.

2. SAFETY. Another common argument is that you won’t be able to chamber a round under various scenarios. You might only have one hand available to you. You might be fighting off someone with your off-hand and wouldn’t be able to rack the slide. You might be shot in one hand and wouldn’t be able to use both hands to rack the slide. While there is an element of truth to those fears, let’s look at them carefully. First I would suggest that anyone who carries an autoloader should be capable of racking the slide and manipulating the firearm with one hand. If you can’t, perhaps a revolver would be more appropriate. The arguments for needing both hands to draw the gun are the same arguments that would be accurate in case of clearing a malfunction. But more importantly, this is only one side of the safety argument, and a questionable one at that.

To truly look at the safety issue we need to move beyond the “I’m in a gunfight right now” mentality and move more toward the “What is the risk involved in carrying a gun day in and day out?” Let’s face it, for most of us the actual gunfight scene is not going to happen. If it happens it is going to involve a few seconds of our life. Admittedly they are going to be extremely important seconds, but we have to balance that against the thousands of hours we will carry the gun, and the thousands of times we administratively handle the gun. Only then can we do a proper risk assessment.

Whether we like to admit it or not, mistakes happen. And even though we talk a lot about how if people will just follow the 4 safety rules, or if they will just get more training, an honest assessment shows that we don’t follow the safety rules all the time and even the best trained among us make mistakes. Fairbairn recognized this long ago and formalized a response: Keep the chamber empty until you need to use the gun, and then empty the chamber ASAP after you are done. Let’s face it, if there isn’t a round in the chamber the gun cannot discharge.

Chamber empty lends itself to situations where there is a lot of administrative handling. Visualize the person who has to go into the Federal Courthouse several times a day. He has to unload and reload each time. Loading and unloading are the times that are the most prone to negligent discharge. Many shooters have said they want an empty chamber on their house gun because children or others may get hold of it. So they charge the chamber each morning and remove a round from the chamber each night. Perhaps these folks could be better served by maintaining the gun C3.

3. FIREARMS. Lots of folks out there still have, and for whatever reason, still carry/use a firearm that is literally unsafe to carry with the chamber loaded. Noted firearms author Mas Ayoob discussed this in an article for Backwoods Magazine (Feb. 2007) stating, “You don’t want to carry a round in the chamber of any semi-automatic pistol that doesn’t have a firing pin lock. It’s not drop-safe.” Those include most autoloaders made before the 1970s, the first generation Smith & Wesson autoloaders, a number of inexpensive pistols like Jennings, Lorcin and Raven, and so on. Even some modern guns, in certain conditions, can be problematic. Ayoob (Guns Magazine, Feb. 2001) again says, “Condition Three does have its place for carry, however. If I am carrying a gun like a Glock, which does not have a manual safety per se, and do not have access to a holster which covers the trigger guard (as is strongly recommended by the Glock factory), and have to shove the gun into my waistband, I'll make sure the chamber is empty.”

4. PERSONAL ISSUES. Here we get into an area that covers a multitude of issues. Some folks just aren’t comfortable with a round in the chamber. We all know that being comfortable about what you carry is important, so that personal preference and concern can matter. For me personally, I find the safety and long, heavy initial DA pull of some traditional DA/SA guns troublesome. When using firearms like those based on the Walther PP-design I find I actually get an accurate first shot of faster by racking the slide and firing SA than flipping the safety and then fighting through the DA pull. A friend has used a Browning Hi-Power for decades, and has always had trouble with the safety. For him, chamber empty works better.

5. MINIMAL TRAINING. Sadly, many if not most gun owners do not train regularly. In fact, I’d hazard a guess that most gun owners don’t train much at all. And it was for those people that the Israeli Method was designed. Going back to Fairbairn, the chamber empty carry was designed to allow those with minimal training to safely carry a firearm. That was also the rationale behind the method early on for Israel. We do a lot of carrying and administrative handling of a firearm, not so much actual shooting. So recognizing that failure and working it into the system is a good idea. C3 carry recognizes that the danger to the carrier is as great as or greater from negligent discharge than actual attack by a criminal. By acknowledging this problem of minimal training by many gun owners and carriers we can then examine a carry method that reduces the danger while still allowing an effective response.

To conclude, most people tend to look at problems from their own point of view, without considering that others might have different concerns, different needs, different levels of training, and so on. Failure to recognize this is harmful to open and honest debate, and in some cases becomes blatant elitism. From my position, I tend to suggest chamber loaded carry as the normal and standard default position, just as I tend to suggest a DAO autoloader as the standard default weapon for those who choose to carry an autoloader. But just as a SA auto might be better for some persons or for some situations, chamber empty might be better for some persons in some situations. There are advantages and disadvantages to each method. The Thinking Gunfighter looks at his own situation and tries to identify what maximizes his advantages and minimizes his disadvantages and makes an informed decision.
Posted by David Armstrong at 2:35 PM
Labels: C3 carry, chamber empty, Israeli technique
15 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is by far the best post on this I've ever seen. I've carried a 1911 in Condition 1 for years, but I'm probably going to switch to C3 now.
September 29, 2010 3:41 PM
David Armstrong said...

Thanks. I don't necessarily recommend anyone switch based on what I write, but often we carry a certain gun or in a certain manner because "someone" told us that was the way to do it without considering individual needs and issues. Consider what is best for you and your situation and then make an informed decision.
September 29, 2010 4:43 PM
JD said...

A pretty darn good article, but a couple things should still be addressed.

1: Browning's design did have a safety before the thumb safety was added in the form of the grip safety. Not trying to knit pick, just adding an observation to an otherwise technically correct posting.

2: The issue of carrying Condition 3 while trouble is not expected vs condition 1 when trouble is expected really should not apply to civilian carry. This is mainly a Military procedure as peacetime carry etc is done condition 3, but when one knows they are in harms way they are to charge the weapon.

In civilian carry we don't have the luxury of knowing when trouble is around the corner and our firearms in most cases should be carried ready to fire. I will concede to your point on guns without firing pin safeties, especially guns of "lesser repute"

3: Those without training are even more likely to short cycle the slide, if they aren't trained enough to be comfortable with a cartridge chambered, what are the odds they will fully cycle the slide in a lethal encounter?

4: Administrative handling: I agree in part with you, my wife just came across a story where a guard shot himself in his car after a shift and he hit his femoral and bled out, phone in lap, 911 dialed but passed out before he could hit send.

This is a big reason I am fond of IWB and OWB holsters with snap loops as their method of attachment, rather than remove the gun itself I can remove the holstered gun keeping the trigger guard covered. A paddle holster and others offer this same benefit and if I were to be in the habit of arming/disarming/rearming multiple times a day, I would do so using a holster more suitable for such a task. There is also a video of an officer retrieving his sidearm from a gun locker in a jail and he manages to shoot himself and a fellow officer. The gun is dropped right in front of a line of inmates while both the "victims" run off. C3 surely would have prevented this.

In the case of officers arming and disarming, what would the officer risk if he is trained mostly with condition 1 being the norm (most dept policies I am aware of mandate condition 1 carry) and he "forgot" to load the chamber in a time of need based on C3 not being the norm?

I agree that one should carry in a manner that suits their needs, but I would hope and pray that C3 carry was only a temporary means of carry until they became comfortable with carrying a firearm C1.

Rule #1 is have a gun, and I'd rather someone carry C3 than be unarmed.
September 29, 2010 8:47 PM
David Armstrong said...

Hi J.D., and thanks for your input. I'd respond to some issues:
1. Yes, Browning did have a grip safety before the thumb safety, but that also was added at the request of the military, according to what I have read. AFAIK, the original design did not have either type of safety, and that is from a source I tend to trust. If you've got something that shows otherwise I'd appreciate if you could forward it to me, as I certainly don't want to put out info that is incorrect and I certainly don’t claim to have all the answers!
2. Again, it becomes a balancing act. Speed of presentation versus safety while carrying. I don't promote one over the other, and experience and personal factors come in to play. Just as we don't know when trouble is around the corner we also don't know when that administrative handling slip is around the corner. Which issue takes priority for each person can and does vary.
3. I disagree. I've taught a bunch of new shooters and racking the slide has not been a problem. In fact, my experience is there is less of a problem racking the slide than remembering to hit the safety.
4. I agree. There are a lot of ways one can address the administrative handling problem, but as you and I both know the ones that need the most work are often the ones who deny there is any problem. Heck, if we could just get everyone to practice the 4 Rules all the time, we wouldn't need any of this! As for officers carrying C3 while being trained for C1, I'm with you, that is just a disaster waiting to happen.
October 1, 2010 10:52 AM
yarco said...

Decent and inteligent article, thank you.

I try to add some notes to the topic:

1. I've noticed that people carrying 'empty chamber' sometimes start to be a little bit careless regarding to basic safety and gun handling. They differ 2 possible states of gun - in chamber when on the range, empty chamber when carrying - and can (un)consciously switch their safety behaviour according to the state THEY BELIEVE the gun is in.
And we all know - a lot of ADs came from 'empty' guns.
(This is not C3-carry offense, just my personal view to consider.)

2. For some reasons my gun (C0/1 carried Glock) is unloaded when resting in my home safe. And after time I've noticed (with a little fear), that my unloading procedure ending with trigger 'click' starts to be more automatic than I ever wanted.
My personal tip for 'in chamber' carriers who often unload their guns (as noticed in article) - if possible, don't push the trigger when unloading the gun. It can help to avoid a trigger pushing to became routine.

Now I push the trigger only if I want to:
- shoot
- dry fire
- disassemble the gun
- unload the gun where the 'click' is requested - IPSC stage, government building, ...

Always fully knowingly and willfully, no automation, no routine.

I think this works, at least in my head. Of course, multiple gun check when unloading is vital (by both sight and touch).

Enjoy shooting and keep safe.
October 7, 2010 4:18 AM
David Armstrong said...

Thanks yarco, especially in regard to your note #1. C3 carry doesn't mean you get to forget about the safety rules, it gives an extra layer of protection IF you forget them. Good point.
October 7, 2010 11:37 AM
Armed 4 Life said...

Great post.

Let me speak with authority on the one issue here which I can.

Having up close, personal and extensive experience with Israel, I can assure you that C3 is chosen based around the type of threat they are facing. Namely, a CORPORATE threat. In other words, they are not armed to combat a PERSONAL threat to themselves only, but rather to protect all those around them. C3 is perfect for this situation as it assumes that a gun is not pointing directly at "you", but rather there is a threat toward "us".

Illustration: My wife carries her Glock 19 in C3 at the school where she works. (By administrative permission I might add) Her threat is not a PERSONAL one where she would likely face a criminal trying to assault her alone. Rather, the treat would be CORPORATE in the form of a phycho intent upon hurting everyone. This situation allows more time (theoretically of course) for ALL THOSE with guns to respond.

In Israel, when "A" gun is drawn, "ALL" guns are drawn. C3 works quite well for this type of threat, and is extremely safe for everyone.

Just my bit. That, and $4.00 will get you a cup of joe @ starschmucks.
October 24, 2010 7:15 PM
Anonymous said...

Fantastic post. Very helpful. I admit to being overly influenced by the super fast readiness crowd.
October 26, 2010 9:31 PM
Mark said...

Thank you all for your very insightful input. It's nice to hear from intelligent gun professionals. From the above reading, I've seen a few trends: 1. Follow the 4 safety rules. 2. Train to proficiency with your weapon and equipment. 3. No one technique works for every weapon, person or set of equipment so see #2.

Additionally, I had learned some time ago that the reason the Israeli's went to this technique was to have continuity over a range of weapons they may use or pick up on the battlefield.

My concern with carrying C3 is that while restraining or shielding family members ie. children, you will most likely have to perform a one hand rack to chamber a round. Something I definitely don't want to fumble with in a fight for life.
October 31, 2010 5:26 PM
Anonymous said...

All you have to do to realize the folly of carrying an unloaded chamber is to do some realistic force-on-force scenarios.
December 7, 2010 5:54 PM
David Armstrong said...

A somewhat strange comment, given the fact that chamber empty carry has been tested and found to work fine over and over in real life, in some of the most dangerous areas of the world. And of course there are very successful examples of people doing FoF training from C3. But such comments are a good example of how myths get started. Somebody who usually doesn't know how to do something (or can't do it very good) is put into an artificial situation where only one aspect of something is tested. They naturally don't do very good, so no they think it means their problem is shared by all people at all times. They completely ignore the factual history of something, such as the history of successful C3 carry and use.
December 8, 2010 9:52 AM
John Veit said...

The following is from "shooting To Live".

"...[the instructor] should make it perfectly clear that the pistol, when carried on service, should have a charged magazine inserted but that it should never be carried with a round in the breech. He should show that when it is desired to fire all that has to be done is to load in the manner described in para. 2 (c). He should then proceed to demonstrate the extreme speed with which it is possible to draw, load and fire by this method, which compares more than favourably with the alternative of drawing, pulling down the safety-catch and firing a round already in the breech. It should be shown, too, that the first method (with breech empty eliminates the fumbling and uncertainty inherent in the use of the safety-catch"

"[para 2](c) To load the pistol turn it over, as in Fig. 6, grasping the slide firmly with the thumb and forefinger of the left hand. Push forward with the right hand until the slide is felt to be open to its fullest extent (Fig. 7). Immediately that point is reached, release the hold with the left hand. The slide lfies forward, taking with it and forcing into the breech the topmost cartridge of the magazine, the pistol pointing to the ground meanwhile (Fig. 8). Turn the hand to the "ready" position (Fig. 3), the pistol being now cocked and ready for action.

For this snipet from "Shooting To Live" and the pics of the Figs see:
http://www.pointshooting.com/1acarry3.htm

The language and pics were taken from the Marine Corps pub of the book which makes it fair game.

To bad it isn't given wider publication as that could result in the savings of Police and Civilian lives.
January 5, 2011 8:44 PM
JD said...

I appreciate the emphasized administrative handling for sure, but all that loading and unloading also might introduce confusion. "Did I load it or didn't I?"

Flicking a safety off and on still strikes me as easier and faster than racking the slide, and afterward if no shots are fired, having to go through the process of the administrative reload once again. It seems like it introduces too much room for error.

Aside from my personal beliefs, it was a great article, David.
January 8, 2011 3:47 PM
David Armstrong said...

For those unfamiliar with it, "Shooting to Live" was written by Fairbairn and Sykes and originally published in 1942.
January 18, 2011 12:38 PM
David Armstrong said...

Thanks, JD, and you make a good point about the possible confusion. I would suggest that anytime there is confusion go with the "empty" default. Sort of like John Farnam, who teaches to always rack the slide after inserting a new magazine as the default when loading/reloading.
January 18, 2011 12:45 PM

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quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Too make them really really safe make sure they don't have a mag in the well also.
.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I have always found that the French police, at every level, extremely professional. Even when they keep arresting my friends and acquaintances - but very politely!

But I would absolutely dread with terror a universally armed British police service!

They seem very immature compared to even the youngest of their French counterparts! Events have show how easily British police draw and use tasers etc., that I dread them with universally armed with pistols!

We might mock the French here sometimes, but it's either the way they bring their kids up - or that last national service generation - but their late twenty and early thirty somethings seem just more mature.

quote:

Its a great idea, right up until someone engages/grabs you and you don't have both hands free to cycle the slide.

quote:

Peter it always amazes me how often Denver Cops kids are killed with their Glock super guns. We had 2 in 2 years. Kids got ahold of the glocks, condition one, while the parent was getting ready for work.....

quote:

Maybe a valid argument for a magazine disconnector

quote:

Peter it always amazes me how often Denver Cops kids are killed with their Glock super guns. We had 2 in 2 years. Kids got ahold of the glocks, condition one, while the parent was getting ready for work.....


Maybe a valid argument for a magazine disconnector as on the Browning High Power?

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:

Duggy, the pretty wife argument works both ways... do all you guys that run around with a round in the chamber all the time, and a pistol with only a single fail point realize how easy it is for them to become widows?

quote:

would bet all those bird hunting accidents are more not knowing where your buddy is more then having a unintentional discharge.

quote:

Not in the field, back at camp or by the vehicles.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:

quote:

Its a great idea, right up until someone engages/grabs you and you don't have both hands free to cycle the slide.

It's very easy to chamber a round with one hand. Firmly plant the rear site/top of the slide firmly on your belt/thigh and entend you arm hard.

quote:

And shoot yourself in the foot.

quote:

I'm not particularly interested in the adventures of a culture without a long tradition of firearms.

quote:

chamber empty (C3) is not restricted to the Israelis, nor did they develop it...Fairbairn (along with Eric Sykes) began to develop a new way to bring Shanghai P.D. officers to a high level of expertise with their handguns given the limited amount of training time and resources available to them.

quote:

This proved to be quite successful and when World War II broke out Fairbairn and Sykes were tasked with training commando units in close combat, including pistol use. They chose the chamber-empty target-focused method that had worked so well for them at Shanghai P.D., and for many of the same reasons.

quote:

Does that about sum it up, or am I missing something?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Recono, you are correct I misunderstood your post. I still don't see how the "firearms tradition" in the USA is any benefit:

"The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69."
Now this is ALL deaths, accidental, murder, suicides etc. Still, I don't believe that the company we are keeping is good company.
here is the full list. Notice where Israel is!

. . . (stats) . . .

Peter.
Edited: Notice where Switzerland is! I don't think this has anything to do with a "firearms tradition" or even gun ownership. It has to do with folks carrying guns around all the time. When everyone does that, bad stuff happens! Perhaps Wink who has lived in France can comment on the statistics for France, which seem a lot higher than England for example.