First of all, what does the board think of tactical stocks for shotguns? Are they necessary, or a waste? Has anyone gone through a Defensive Shotgun type training course? I have an old Win model 1200 (it actually has Sears and Roebuck stamped, but by comparison it is really a Win. 1200) that has a Mod choke barrel and was my first 12 gauge. It has been beat up pretty badly and is now my backup gun. I was thinking of putting a tactical stock on it for home defense. Anyone know a good supplier of these?

I don't speak for the board, but personally, I think that the word "tactical" is the most over used BS word we have today in the shooting industry. Make anything olive drab or black, put an extra buckle on it, and then stamp the word tactical on it, and people will buy it.
I am not sure what tactical stock you are looking at, but if it were me, I would cut the stock a little shorter...maybe an inch to an inch and a half less than your normal length of pull, put a good pad on it, try to find one of the "saddle" type shell carriers (the ones that mount on the left side of the receiver and hold between 4-6 shells), cut the barrel to 18 1/4", put a large bead on it and call it done.
With the money saved from the purchase of the tactical stock, go to Wal Mart and buy several 100 round packs of shotgun shells. I bought a 100 pack of Winchester for $21. Great practice loads to get your speed in using the gun improved.
After that, buy some extra boxes of the loads you are going to keep for defense and practice with those. There is a BIG difference in the recoil and muzzle blast between a target load (like the Wal Mart Winchester brand I bought) and a full house 00 buck or rifled slug load.

I agree about the use of the word "Tactical". What I mean is a pistol grip type stock.

daniel77

I have shot a few shotguns with just a pistol grip...very hard to control: the regular stock..my favorite: and the pistol grip stock. The pistol grip stock is pretty easy to shoot and handle, but IMHO, not that much easier than a factory stock.

I've used the stock with pistol (more like AR15) grip from Choate in both fixed and folding styles. Seemed to me that the recoil was split between your shoulder and the palm of your hand and was easier to ride thru for repeat shots. I had an instructor tell me that it was easier to be disarmed if you were wrestling with a suspect over the shotgun and it was equipped with a "Tactical" stock. I remain dubious about that but relate it here for your consideration.

The pistol grip only is a bit hard to control and takes a LOT of practice to hit your target if he's not in the same phone booth with you.

+1 that its an improvement but not a huge improvement. If you need a new stock buy one but use the money for something else if your shotgun stock is presently sound.

A shotgun in pistol grip only configuration, without a butt stock, is dangerous at both ends. It's a product of Hollywood as well as "street cool" genre. It has no practical or meaningful application in the real world. What the user will do, especially in the heat and excitment of an engagement, is put the pistol grip up to his cheek. I've seen it done. It's always good for some laughs.

Shotguns that have both a butt stock and a pistol grip such as the Benelli M4 are very effective tools. But they require a different set of manipulation skills than does a shotgun with a straight grip, especially when engaged in speed or tactial reloading. They are also more difficult to deploy from vehicles, but this can be overcome with practice.

Try both types, go with the one you become the most skilled with, and stick with it.

As for weapon retention issues with a long gun, if you're in a tug-of-war with a long gun, it's time to get that muzzle pointed in the right direction and start pulling the trigger. The threshold has been met.

Cheers.

Daniel

Because of my former Job, I have been to several of the Top Shotgun Schools that were around "back in the day", when the shotgun was all there was, before sub guns and later 223 carbines took their place.

Pistol grip stocks were not widely around then, but did show up toward the end of the Shotguns day.

TWL You are correct a pistol grip ONLY shotgun is not worth having, EXCEPT as a short barreled breaching gun.

However, a full stocked pistol gripped shotgun is a good choice:

If you like the way it handles/shoots.

If the stock does not bruise your face.

And if it is strong enough to take a lot of shooting.

Its main advantage is that it is easier to shoot with one hand, if that becomes necessary.

Also since most para, and full military rifles have a pistol grip, many people are used to using one.

However I can say none of my shotguns have one, but I have had my guns for quite a while.

I had a pistol grip stock for my Benelli, but it bruised my face, soI got rid of it, and put the regular stock back on.

The one thing I would worry about is the shotguns with the AR15/M16 style adjustable stocks. I wonder how well they would hold up to a lot of full power slug and buckshot shooting.

Rem. 870 "Riot Gun" -- I put a pistol grip on it, for whatever reason. Makes for a nice short gun for behind the seat in the truck.

But the shoulder stock is more useful than the utility of the pistol-grip and the shorter length.

I like the pistol grip option on any stock -- On the pump shotgun it provides the option of racking the action with both arms.

"Tacticool" -- I'm for it if it's useful. I'm not spending extra $$$ for useless webbing and a couple buckles.

Thanks guys,
I did not mean or ever consider the pistol grip only type stock, but the shoulder w/ pistol grip type seems like it could be useful. I agree totally that the pistol grip only is for Hollywood and the gang-bangers who also think a pistol is supposed to be held sideways.

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
the gang-bangers who also think a pistol is supposed to be held sideways.

That's the way it came in the box

quote:

Originally posted by griz78:

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
the gang-bangers who also think a pistol is supposed to be held sideways.

That's the way it came in the box

Almost all of the pistol grip/stock's I have tried don't do much to improve the utility of the weapon and most hurt it.
A folding type is utterly useless for the home defense SG. Murphy dictates that it will be folded the moment you need it and these are invariably the most punishing of all stocks.
A collapseable is better in that it is adjustable and you will always have a stock in place to use, even a short one. Unfortunately, almost all of them are based on the AR style stock which is a straight line recoil system. That doesn't help you very much when it comes to recovering for a second shot. (Benelli's collapseable stock does have drop and it does help.)
Knoxx (recently bought by Blackhawk) builds an AR style stock that has recoil reduction built into it. The receiver is allowed to reciprocate against spring pressure (contained in the stock and PG). Some people hate them but, to me, it does work and I can shoot 3" 15 pellet 00 as comfortably as any other. The stock absorbs recoil collapsed or extended. I use Federal's Flite Control 00 buck as well as Remington's 3" 15 pellet 00 and both are very manageable. Compared to some other shotguns I have used, an 870 with a Knoxx Spec-Op's stock is downright enjoyable. I DO NOT recommend any of their stock attachments, however. They prohibit the gun from being used on either shoulder- a requirement for an SG in my opinion.



Their site does say they make one for the WIN 12 but you may want to ensure that it will fit your model before purchasing.

I would not use any type of pistol grip on my home defense shotgun. After trying one on my IPSC gun, I found them slower to manipulate and bring to bear on the subject at hand. The regular grip is much more forgiving and quicker. After several shotgun defense classes, the pistol grip versions are much easier to wrestle away from an opponent if you know how to do it. As you swing the muzzle up over your heads and having it come down on the other side (from 3:00 to 9:00), all you have to do is "roll" the gun some and the pistol grip itself will break the opponent's grip, or their wrist, which ever comes first. The gun rolls better in your hands without the pistol grip.

Anybody try one of these: http://www.blackhawk.com/produ...n-Stock,1155,165.htm

Looks like a regular stock w/the springs inside.

My Benelli M1 Super 90 came with a pistol grip stock.

During transitions from shotgun to pistol the pistol grip can hang up at times.

That said I still prefer it over the standard stock sans pistol grip.

quote:

Originally posted by griz78:

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
the gang-bangers who also think a pistol is supposed to be held sideways.

That's the way it came in the box

That's absolutely the best, most logical and reasonable explanation I've ever seen!



I'm entirely comfortable and accurate shooting a 12 bore anything one-handed like a handgun.

Serious defense I like a shoulder stock. Local Sheriff has a Mossberg, telescope stock, picanniny rail fore-end, 6 rd. tube, 16" bbl.

Imp. Cyl. I think. He sometimes shoots trap w/ it. (Don't get rid of your Perazzi!)

Personally, I like the speedfeed I stock (just looks like a normal stock, but it's pretty handy to keep 4 rounds in the stock.)

I had a knox recoil reducing pistol gripped stock, and didn't care for it.

IMO, the ideal self-defense shotgun would be one of the mil-spec mossbergs w. a speedfeed I stock, and an oversized safety.