In todays world I would never, on purpose, engage in "fisticuffs" with ANY Criminal.

Nor will I ever let one touch me. The risk is just to high.
Especially as we get older.

Back in the day I have choked out two people at the same time a couple of times.
I have knocked them out with flashlights,night sticks, and Pistol whipped them with 1911's and N Frame Smith's.

No more, I am too old for that cra... I mean "stuff".

In Texas they passed the CHL laws, because here, a Good person, does not have to allow a bad person, to TOUCH THEM... Or Steal/Damage their Property.

Also for Retired LEO's, they passed HR 214, for the same and other reasons.

IF they did not want good people to SHOOT bad people, they would not AUTHORIZE YOU to carry a GUN.

When Legislators Pass Concealed Carry Laws, and Governors sighn the Laws, they EXPECT good people to shoot bad people.

I submit THEY WANT YOU TO...

I know of a couple of cases where one of the fighers where killed with a single punch to the head.

One of the reasons I retired from the job after 33 years was at 55 yoa I didn't want to fight with 20 yoa somebodys in the ditch any more.

Even that I work out 3 or more times a week I don't bounce like I use too.

I wish they would have had Tasers years ago going hands on gets people hurt

I am not talking a prize fight with a referee, I am talking like President Bush said "Shock And Awl,if it goes bad out comes the equalizer. Like the old saying God did not make Humans equal, Samuel Colt did.

My fear with laws like that alot of young people are the ones causing damage, I had a eldorado as an undercover car for several years, I would park it on the drive, one evening I hear a noise, I go out gun in hand and see nothing. Next morning the hood ornament is gone and a nasty gouge was in its place of it. I do the police report to cover the damage. 2 Years latter I get a knock on the door and this kid hands me the missing ornament, states he was going through some wild behavior and finally got his act together. In Texas I hear I could of killed him and had his head on my wall but look what happened. Sure I had a gun but that was only to control the situation if a situation developed..
Heck I was a hooligan for a good part of my early teenage years and the only reason I stayed on the right side of the law was the Chicago Police since they would Tune you up if they got their hands on you, given the choice of being arrested or tuned up I would take the tune up. Plus my father would do a bigger number when he found so I would get it twice.
I grew up in that environment and we got a different respect for the law, Cops can't do that anymore because of the bleeding heart liberals who fund the individuals rights groups, parents can't correct their kids because that is abuse, then you wonder why this country is going in the direction it is no one wants to join the military but they sure enjoy a good nights sleep.

When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away.

Illinois....figures.

Antelope Sniper summed it up earlier.

Can't argue with That

I've read this thread with some interest.

I suggest to the forum and raamw that:

1. When we do go out (or stay in), we are in fact assuming responsibility for our lives and of those with us. To depend on LE or anyone else is illogical.

2. We are completely responsible for our actions. In the case of a lethal force incident, we must insure a) the threat is imminent, b) has the ability and c) opportunity to cause grave boldily harm or death to ourselves or another innocents (key word here).

3. We must live with the outcomes of our actions; therefore, we owe it ourselves first (and others secondly) to be well-versed in the law and the use of arms or unarmed responses if we so choose, if not, we must accept the fact that others can very easily control us and those we love.


And finally: Regretably, we must accept that many fellow humans are evil and selfish to the point of requiring death or at least incapacitation to protect society and community at large. It is our PERSONAL and COLLECTIVE duty (individually and collectively/governmentally) to insure such peace and domestic tranquility.

You choose how to participate, and leave my choice up to me. If you wish to attempt to dial 911 and hope a cop is within handgun range when the moment requires it, fine-that is your free choice. If I choose to apply reason, logic, training and counter-vailing force in that same moment, then call 911, that is my choice.

In regards to the parts of Chicago (or other places, urban or rural) that are lawless and where LEOs fail to perform their duties since it is so "dangerous", (I assume it's where Mr. MacDonald resides) allow those who legally can and wish to be armed for self defense of hearth, home and person, be so. In a few months, the cops can safely return to thier sworn duty with safety.

God Bless Sam Colt and Mssrs Smith and Wesson, and the Constitution of these United States!