So what does everyone think of the new hunting charges that may be introduced to hunt on DOC land in NZ......not only for visitors but locals as well?

http://www.3news.co.nz/Propose.../205608/Default.aspx

About time New Zealand's game herds should have been managed 100 years ago.

If that had happened,we wouldn't have the mess we do today.

So that would effectively double the cost of a hunt on DoC land for us Aussies if you wanted to export a trophy. Is that price ($1000) for each trophy?

Bloody top idea Kiwis!!! You have a great wild resource there that needs taking care of!! This will be especially good if the revenue raised goes back into managing the herds and such (research, marketing, etc).

I can forsee a lot of corners being cut however, by guides and outfitters using public land..

If they do that they will loose a lot of hunters.there are a lot of us that save for a couple of years to go on a hunt like this.And to put a $1000.00 on each.so that would be $3000.00 extra for me to bring back my horns.I would like to to tell peter Dunne to stick it were the sun dont sine.And he should look in to the rest of the world thet DONT charge $1000.00 per trouphy.THEY WONT GET 3 GRAND OUT OF ME.

I would have thought twice about shooting the Chamoi I took a few years ago on DOC land had it cost me an additional 1K. It sure does change the bottom line. My view point is that this is going to put a return trip on hold for me, possibly for good. Too bad as I found NZ to be a truly wonderful place, and one that I could hunt on a mere mortals budget. Well, the world is a changing place.

All it is going to do for visiting (guided) hunters is bring the public land hunts inline with the private land hunts, so far as cost. Lots of guides out there have been utilising that public resource (perhaps) at a loss to local recreational hunters who own that resource!!

Yes overall it may drive the hunt costs up on average a bit - but these things must be equitable with the future of the animals and the hunting resource in mind.

Basically you and I dont have any say in it anyhow - it is up to kiwis what they want to do. If taxing foreign hunters (me included) to subsidise their hunting future then I say go for it kiwis!!

quote:

Originally posted by firemenE89:
If they do that they will loose a lot of hunters.there are a lot of us that save for a couple of years to go on a hunt like this.And to put a $1000.00 on each.so that would be $3000.00 extra for me to bring back my horns.I would like to to tell peter Dunne to stick it were the sun dont sine.And he should look in to the rest of the world thet DONT charge $1000.00 per trouphy.THEY WONT GET 3 GRAND OUT OF ME.

You go to zambia to shoot a sable and the Govt will charge you $4000 - thats not trophy fee thats govt licence!! Plenty, plenty places charge similar fees.

Remember - when you do your guided doc land hunt you are being charged any trophy fees AT ALL. and if you do the guide is sticking it straight into his pocket!! I suspect those same guides will be having to factor some of this cost into what they have been charging!!

Tahr and chamois are animals that deserve to be protected and properly managed in NZ!! Not sure if it is $1000 per animal or what.

So what did your three-animal hunt set you back anyhow mate - if you dont mind me asking?? All trophy animals??

Just don't hunt DOC land,that simple

Would I be correct in saying however that a LOT of kiwi hunters are not going to be happy about buying into an annual licence?? no matter how inexpensive... It takes a lot of foresight to believe that a new 'tax' can be something good for the future!!

I am a bit confused. Will this system ask commercial hunting guides to pay a higher fee than recreational hunters? That would be a fair system as the recreational hunters are using public land while guides are making a profit from public land.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I am a bit confused. Will this system ask commercial hunting guides to pay a higher fee than recreational hunters? That would be a fair system as the recreational hunters are using public land while guides are making a profit from public land.

Thats the way I read it... but only for O/S hunters. Local hunters would just pay a minimal annual licence fee.

Matt NZ Game Council is based on NSW system.

Kiwi hunters may have an issue with paying an annual fee,New Zealand hunters will not

What kind of an animal is a New Zealand??

What a load of horse shit!!! If anyone thinks this is a good idea they have rocks in there head I say this because DOC can't manage what they have already, be it areas for trophy hunting or that need culling. Seeing as most of the game avaiable in NZ DOC would sooner kill all of it than allow it to be trophy hunted why should anyone pay to do a job for them.They should give full access to these areas to hunters that way they don't have to pay truck loads to cull when numbers get to high. If they go down that road it will start ending up like it is here in Aussie were us hunter are getting less and less areas in which to hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I am a bit confused. Will this system ask commercial hunting guides to pay a higher fee than recreational hunters? That would be a fair system as the recreational hunters are using public land while guides are making a profit from public land.

I sure hope so

quote:

Originally posted by zhaba:
What a load of horse shit!!! If anyone thinks this is a good idea they have rocks in there head I say this because DOC can't manage what they have already, be it areas for trophy hunting or that need culling. Seeing as most of the game avaiable in NZ DOC would sooner kill all of it than allow it to be trophy hunted why should anyone pay to do a job for them.They should give full access to these areas to hunters that way they don't have to pay truck loads to cull when numbers get to high. If they go down that road it will start ending up like it is here in Aussie were us hunter are getting less and less areas in which to hunt!

I guess if you read the article you would see that Doc would no longer be managing the large animals!!

It will only be a problem for locals if they get get greedy and start doing all hunting areas on a ballot system etc, instead of a user pays system.

I bet a lot of Aussie hunters will be crying....

Whenever I see something like this, I see a new government department with new government jobs and not all that much in the "resource management" area. After a few years of collecting fees the money must be spent so new people will need to be hired. Once that happens the department will have to justify their existance and new rules and fees will be forthcoming. Welcome to California.

With the Aussie dollar and the extra trophy fee added I can see a lot of Aussie hunters taking there Aussie bucks elsewhere.
Cheers,
Gats!

Theres a lot of hearsay as yet, as nothing is finalised except that we will have a Game animal council.This is what I understand is proposed.Its going to be made up of a wide range of interests frm Recreational hunters, to safari club style representation for international hunters, guides commercial meat recovery (helecopter) operators, farm industry,Doc and Iwi (Maori).Rec hunter, as far as is proposed will still be able to hunt for free, but there will be a voluntary fee to join the organisation. There will though, in all likelyhood be specific fees for special herds of game that the organisation is activly manageing, Maybe the Wapiti, hopefully Tahr and pssably Chamois, though Chamois are in a different chategory because of their propensity to live and do well anywhere.
The 1000 dollar fee is the first I have heard of it being that high, and I feel it should be about half that, to be inline with similar costs in other parts of the world, and I think it will also be added to private land hunts and gameparks as well. It may be a flat fee added to any head thats exported.
Hopefully what this council does, is remove the pest classification from managed herds, and give them some protection and us, as hunters some real ownership. Through this media we may well be able to stop, or at least limit and control some of the worst practices that currently are seen as acceptable by the authorities.
We don't know yet what way this will go, but many of us have a strong hope in an improvement in the ad hoc killing thats going on right now.

So you go over roll a few animals,eat what you can after taking plenty of trophy photo`s and leave the rest for the Kea`s,pics tell a lot more than a head on a wall especially if its gonna cost a grand.

Q "“All we’re doing is getting in line with the rest of the world,” says veteran hunter Geoff Thomas." EQ

So farkin what! The rest of the world is NOT NZ!

Yeah were not the rest of the world, and I hope we can come up with a practicle organisation that deals with kiwi issues. I don't think the situation is ideal but if we leave things the way they are we will lose our heards slowly and suerly. Allready the commercial interests have applied to helihunt the Wapit herd, are destroying the Tahr herd and targetiing the best stags in our public land red deer herds when they are at their most vunerable.That spiecies is allready only a shadow of its capability's.
Even the issues you saw this trip while here, Doc cullers been sent into the bush at the height of the roar, Helehunter flying our hillside,The Kahurangi ballt where doc is activly provideing incentives for hunters to slaughter everything, its all a simptom of the disrespect given to rec hunters and our animals.
there is more to come, experiments are currently underway on methods to poison trout out of waterways.

quote:

there is more to come, experiments are currently underway on methods to poison trout out of waterways.

Fark... that would be a disaster. Good luck guys!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
You go to zambia to shoot a sable and the Govt will charge you $4000 - thats not trophy fee thats govt licence!! Plenty, plenty places charge similar fees.
Remember - when you do your guided doc land hunt you are being charged any trophy fees AT ALL. and if you do the guide is sticking it straight into his pocket!! I suspect those same guides will be having to factor some of this cost into what they have been charging!!

Tahr and chamois are animals that deserve to be protected and properly managed in NZ!! Not sure if it is $1000 per animal or what.

So what did your three-animal hunt set you back anyhow mate - if you dont mind me asking?? All trophy animals??

Obviously it sticks in your gullet to see anyone hunting on their own without a guide.

Yes, it's going to put more money (none of mine) into DOC's pocket, but like any government department there's no guarantee the money will go into better management of the resource. There's a greater chance it will be used to grow the 'empire'.

Re countries charging a government fee on trophies, I would wager that the countries that don't charge far outweigh the ones that do.

quote:

Originally posted by RonE:
Whenever I see something like this, I see a new government department with new government jobs and not all that much in the "resource management" area. After a few years of collecting fees the money must be spent so new people will need to be hired. Once that happens the department will have to justify their existance and new rules and fees will be forthcoming. Welcome to California.

Really depends on how the Dept is set-up in the first place and the influence the Greens have on it. If it is a completely new department set-up to manage 'hunting', rather than pest eradication.. it could have a whole lot of benefits for the future. Remember also these are not native animals that you are largely dealing with in the USA. These are valuable introduced game animals, currently being treated as pests by the govt.

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

Obviously it sticks in your gullet to see anyone hunting on their own without a guide.

Why would you get that impression?? I hunt public land myself - with and without guides... I encourage others to do it and I promote public land hunting - why would you suggest such a thing?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Why would you get that impression?? I hunt public land myself - with and without guides... I encourage others to do it and I promote public land hunting - why would you suggest such a thing?

This is why..

quote:

All it is going to do for visiting (guided) hunters is bring the public land hunts inline with the private land hunts, so far as cost.

I see public land hunting as low cost hunting available to all hunters not just the well heeled.
A proposal for a government department to take a $1000 trophy fee on top of a licence fee for the privilege of hunting that land takes it out of the low cost scenario.

Last week on our return from Sth to the Nth Island not far from Masterton we sneaked in a five hour walk into some 1080 range country, (six months prev was the drop) and nary a movement to be seen,one deer mark in 5 hrs between 3 hunters,one dead possum and not one F$%^&*g bird believe it or not!

So perhaps this is indicative of when a "dept" gets their hands on running the show eh!

Makes you wonder what you will get for your dollar when or if this mob takes over licencing hunters with new fee`s.

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Why would you get that impression?? I hunt public land myself - with and without guides... I encourage others to do it and I promote public land hunting - why would you suggest such a thing?

This is why..

quote:

All it is going to do for visiting (guided) hunters is bring the public land hunts inline with the private land hunts, so far as cost.

I see public land hunting as low cost hunting available to all hunters not just the well heeled.
A proposal for a government department to take a $1000 trophy fee on top of a licence fee for the privilege of hunting that land takes it out of the low cost scenario.

Its the activitys of tourist hunters hunting public land with guides that has caused the most upset here in the last few years. With no checks and balences, a number of cowboys have forced the guideing community into ever decreaseing spirals of depravity and cheapness. Hopefully there maybe a way to even this situation out, and let the good operators compete on an even playing feild once again.
This is not going to fund Doc, its independant in the same way as our fish and game councils as far as use of funds. At the moment, without the council, Doc is talking about levying 500 bucks each for game animals itself, thats something none of us want.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
So perhaps this is indicative of when a "dept" gets their hands on running the show eh!

And their 'management' practices...

Its important to note, and I cant stress enough, that this will be by far majoriety, a hunter run organisation. Yes some of those hunters will be commercial, whether guides or WARO operators, but people with a vested interest in a healthy animal resource should be able to provide a better result for hunters than a dept whos statutory role in regard to introduced animals, is extermination.
Gryph saw an insight into the worst of Doc policy, we wont stop that from the outside, but if we can afford it, we maybe able to introduce methods that impact less on the game we hold dear. Repellent, Bait stations etc. There are alot of people in DOC and the green organisations who want this to fail, its the best oportunity for a step forward in a long long time, and people are scared of it.

How could anyone drop 1080 into a place like this?

Shankspony, thanks for the insight.

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Why would you get that impression?? I hunt public land myself - with and without guides... I encourage others to do it and I promote public land hunting - why would you suggest such a thing?

This is why..

quote:

All it is going to do for visiting (guided) hunters is bring the public land hunts inline with the private land hunts, so far as cost.

I see public land hunting as low cost hunting available to all hunters not just the well heeled.
A proposal for a government department to take a $1000 trophy fee on top of a licence fee for the privilege of hunting that land takes it out of the low cost scenario.

Well if you look at my comments in depth you will see that what I was referring to was guided operations on public land abusing the public resource and indeed international unguided hunters taking advantage of very low-cost public land hunting, possibly at the expense of local hunters.

I never agreed with a $1000 fee and nothing has been set it concrete - like I said it is up to New Zealanders to decide what they do with their resource.

I think with a $500 fee it will still allow a reasonable price for international hunters wanting to export trophies... that is pretty fair I reckon.

I did not know that it was going to include private land as well?? Oh well - if thats what they decide....

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
How could anyone drop 1080 into a place like this?

Agreed!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:s.
there is more to come, experiments are currently underway on methods to poison trout out of waterways.

I thought your government was more sensible than ours??? Looks like I was wrong and what a shame.

Personally i woukd takes lots of pictures.then not export the horns.

Heck I decide to do that when I hunted canada last year and they only wanted 35 dollars to bring some horns back. I have lots of horns laying around.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Personally i woukd takes lots of pictures.then not export the horns.

Heck I decide to do that when I hunted canada last year and they only wanted 35 dollars to bring some horns back. I have lots of horns laying around.

I'm interested, did you have to buy a tag/s before you went hunting?

a little bit of reading for yuz in response to my mates submission.

From: Hayden Cox (MIN) [mailto:Hayden.Cox@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:06 AM
To: Roddy the flyman
Subject: RE: Form submission from website



Hi Rod



Thanks for your submission to the UF website, much appreciated.



I have read with interest your comments. Firstly, you are assuming a trophy levy of $1000 +. While it is up to the Game Animal Council, in conjunction with the Minister of Conservation to set the trophy levy, I can assure you it will be more in the $150-$200 range than $1000, and all of it will be 'ploughed' back into the hunting sector by way of the Game Animal Council.



Through the extensive advice and consultation received during the GAC establishment process we and most within the industy here do not consider such a levy as being prohibitive to most overseas hunters coming to NZ. The proposed levy is also seen in some small way as a reimbursement for the fact that an overseas hunter who takes a trophy out of NZ does not in any way contribute to the management of that animal as a public resource while also removing the possibility of a NZ recreational hunter hunting that animal.



The Game Animal Council is primarily set up to look after the interests of NZ recreational hunters who like most of us who go into the hills do not spend thousands of dollars on guides and choppers but deserve to know that the commercial interests they compete with for hunting resources in some small way contribute to the management of game animals in NZ.



FYI, this is the power of the commercial industry here:



UF_Logo-RGB-350dpi



Media statement

For immediate release
19 April 2011



DoC Heli-hunting decision a rip-off – Dunne



UnitedFuture leader Peter Dunne has labelled the Department of Conservation’s decision to grant heli-hunting permits over vast tracks of conservation land and wilderness areas as a “rip-off”.



“Once again DoC has ripped off those New Zealanders that enjoy spending time in our mountains,” said Mr Dunne.



“Heli-hunting on public conservation land is not only abhorrent and potentially dangerous, but also does not fit the intention by which our national parks and wilderness areas were created.”



Heli-hunting entails either shooting a tahr or chamois directly from a helicopter or placing a hunter on the ground and herding the animal or animals towards them with the helicopter.



“It is not sport, it is certainly not hunting, it’s just killing.”



“For years helicopter operators have got away with this inhumane, barbaric practice and now DoC have not only legitimised it, but they have given it priority over other forms of recreation.”



“The real hypocrisy is that for wilderness areas such as the Adams, Hooker Landsborough and Olivines where other people are not even allowed fly-in access DoC has allowed heli-hunters an unprecedented right to use helicopters.”



“The average Kiwi tramper or hunter has been relegated to a second-class citizen in his own country.”



“Those that go into the Southern Alps to hunt, tramp or climb deserve better. DoC is a department that has totally lost its way. It is meant to look after the interests of New Zealanders first and foremost, not rich tourists who now have more rights in our mountains than we do.”



“This decision is further proof that DoC can no longer be trusted to look after the interests of recreation in this country. The recently announced Game Animal Council will need to address the issue of heli-hunting as it is clear that DoC will not,” said Mr Dunne.



The Department of Conservation’s decision and letter to applicants can be found here:

http://www.doc.govt.nz/about-d...issues/heli-hunting/





regards





Hayden Cox

Ministerial Advisor to Hon Peter Dunne

Minister of Revenue | Associate Minister of Health | MP for Ohariu | UnitedFuture Leader

Tel: DDI 04 8176991 | Mobile: 021 917339

Thanks - good info!!