quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Im going to throw a couple of policies at you to see if you feel they are elitist.

Tax cuts- earn under 1,5000, tax cut to 10%
under 56,000. tax cut to 17.5%
earn over 70,000 no tax cut- stays at 33%

A doubling of public health funding.

I think you have a fair bit of that wrong. Its easy to confuse right wing with less governance, yet the core value of ACT is freedom across the board. Freedom of speech, Less red tape in how we live. Smaller govt. See the above re low tax for high income earners.
Their right to die law was directly a championing of human rights. as was their support for abortion law reform. Neither of those areas of support are traditional right wing stands. They are also pro immigration and fit your concerns well with them stating that immigrants must accept diversity and freedom of other groups in NZ.

Honestly- I think the colonial heritage- NZ the way it used to be- is a crock of shit!
Its a poor argument. NZ has always been forward focussed. First country in the world to have true democracy in giving everyone the vote. One of the first if not the first to standardise an 8 hour working day.
very high rate of adoption of social policies such as free health care and education. The very reason most of our ancestors moved here was to escape colonial attitudes. And on a personnel note, you do know that my partner and step daughter are immigrants too. My step daughter got an education here before she had a visa because NZ accepts that all children must have an education.

And to finish and bring this back too the subject thats relevant to us. ACT have been the only party in parliament who stood up and recognised that the new firearms laws and they way they were brought in failed in compassion, governance and intent. That they were about scapegoating and moving forward an agenda on the back of a tragedy.

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From where I sit and with my experiences, gun rights are a non issue. I can own all the guns I want, shoot all I want and hunt all I want (if I am fit).

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Originally posted by JTEX:
I know I ain't got a ball in the court but please describe what a "living wage" consists of and who should qualify?

I hear our lefties mention this a lot........

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gun rights are a non issue. I can own all the guns I want, shoot all I want and hunt all I want (if I am fit).

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Originally posted by shankspony:
Sorry Naki, Ive given you policy and examples straight from acts manifesto. and given examples of proven stances and actions in parliament.
You are dodging those and giving me opinion. Or making accusations without anything to back them up. Give me an ACT policy example which shows they support white collar crime.
Please give me a policy example of their support for an Oligarchy?

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From where I sit and with my experiences, gun rights are a non issue. I can own all the guns I want, shoot all I want and hunt all I want (if I am fit).

Then what does it matter too you? why are you in this debate? For most of us in the firearms community it is an important issue and one worth voting in favour of the guys who, are not only sticking up for firearms owners, but also for hunting as well.
As I have already said, this thread was started on what was relevant to firearms owners.

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On 24 February 2012 he was convicted, along with fellow former Justice Minister Bill Jeffries and two other men, of breaching the Securities Act by making untrue statements to investors in his capacity as a director of Lombard Finance.[6] Justice Robert Dobson wrote, "I am satisfied that the accused genuinely believed in the accuracy and adequacy of the ... documents", but that the offences were ones of strict liability so there was no need for "any form of mental intent to distribute documents that were false or misleading"

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Originally posted by muzza:
Interestingly none of ACTs candidates have been members of the NZ Communist Party - but your idol has - was its leader for a while .

If that isnt enough to scare you then being Helen Clarks puppet mouthpiece should be sufficient to make you look elsewhere.

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Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Shanks

I've given you facts that do not fit your views. ACT is a Right Wing Party with elitist views. I do not think YOU personally are elitist or Right wing as I have known you for 4 years. BUT ACT is.

The Democratic Party of the 1860s to 1950s exchanged platforms with the Republicans. That is why it is the Republicans who use the Confederate flag and object to Human Rights issues for African Americans today. That is why Republican party gets the support of neo Nazis today. That is why the Republican party is backed by Alt right groups like QAnon & Britebart.

Jacinda Ardern may not be releasing her Policy for the elections yet. BUT that is just a tactical move. With close to 55% approval all she has to do is ride the wave. Why would she give out a policy that will be attacked irrespective of merit? That only changes the debate and news cycle. She gains nothing from releasing a policy right now. She can just coast along with current success and say as little as possible. She can just say "Proof of the pudding. Do you want more?" THAT is her Policy statement!

That is just politics and a game of Chess.

What you call political dogma may be just simple reality of day to day existence for 90% of people. That is once again politics.

Very few of the bottom 50% of society are going to enter politics or be successful. But they still look for a party that fits (perceived) their interests as closely as possible.

I repeat this point - actual behaviour and actual track record matter. Most of ACT leaders have a long history of NZ politics before ACT. I do not know of a single current ACT leader who has a track record of working for the working class interests, not in the last 20 years.

I know you keep brushing my points aside.

Why did current ACT members even consider Don Brash in the first place? That is behaviour, showing their true values, vision and interest for the country.

These are FACTS and not just my opinion.

On the other hand Policy statements are just hot air. They mean NOTHING. They have no tangible impact on our day to day lives unless they are implemented.

POLICY STATEMENTS ARE JUST ADVERTISEMENTS.

I would rather look at concrete evidence of actual performance and actual results than at Policy advertisements that do not reflect actual behaviour and results from that party.

I am done with this debate mate. No offense meant. Best wishes to the family.

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1. Far Right politics
2. Pro super rich with no minimum living wage laws
3. Claims entitlement for economic advantage without paying for the consequences that the rest of society faces
4. Wants lions share of profits but not equal share of costs - particularly environmental and social costs
5. The average common citizen has to work for below minimum wage so that the "market can determine" their high profits and wealth
6. No oversight or legal consequences for White collar (financial) crimes
7. Segregation of society based on economic and ethnic identity
8. Criminal oligarchy with dismantling of basic democratic institutions that protect the whole society
9. Government of the people by a few and for a few
10. New Zealand will be sold to anyone through back room deals.

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I repeat this point - actual behaviour and actual track record matter. Most of ACT leaders have a long history of NZ politics before ACT.

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Originally posted by wazza56:
I see they are advertising for people to manage covid hotels for the next 2 years so thats full lock down still with no actual plan as to the way forward except for a vaccine when even the WHO is now saying don't bank on that one, going to be in a sad state in 2 years, NZ has only FF&T farming forestry and tourism, world in recession the first one suffers and the last one has pretty much stopped, so the cure could be worse than the disease. Would be good to see where the NZ average death rate stands now or the projected death rate due to full shutdown and undiagnosed ailment deaths a few years down the track.

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Originally posted by Ridgeman:
Again, more ignorant baseless dribble from our resident Labour troll.
Pointless even trying to get him to acquaint himself with the facts .

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Originally posted by muzza:
If I wanted to engage in yet another endless debate with you , sir , I would have been here earlier.

I bring your attention back to the situation where our unelected prime minister in a previous life was the leader of the NZ Communist Party. Your fobbing that off is just another of your ways of turning the discussion to suit your narrative . You cant refute it - its fact.

Respect is something that takes a long time to build and seconds to destroy.

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The Democratic Party of the 1860s to 1950s exchanged platforms with the Republicans. That is why it is the Republicans who use the Confederate flag and object to Human Rights issues for African Americans today. That is why Republican party gets the support of neo Nazis today. That is why the Republican party is backed by Alt right groups like QAnon & Britebart.

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Originally posted by wazza56:
yes it is

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Originally posted
by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by wazza56:
yes it is

Are folks supportive of this?

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Originally posted by muzza:
How do you resist that action ?

Nobody wants to be arrested and jailed , and the Police arent going to come to your assistance so you just have to suck it up and comply

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Originally posted by shankspony:
She uses dead people well.

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From where I sit and with my experiences, gun rights are a non issue. I can own all the guns I want, shoot all I want and hunt all I want (if I am fit).

Minimum living wage is the most important factor for ALL Kiwis.

I have not touched on White collar crime. ACT has traditionally been light on that. Big business fraud and breaking the rules is an area where ACT could improve a lot. Less government is often an argument used to reduce regulations on big business and economic offenses.

We are all VERY FORTUNATE to live in this great country.