We have an election coming up, and for the outdoors person, there is only one party worth considering.

Its leader is a lone voice right now but he is gaining support on a range of issues and on current trends could triple the number of MPs with him after the election. or better.
There is a small chance he may hold the balance of power?
Thought id post up this interview for guys to hear what he has to say.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national...firearms-legislation

100 % Shanks
The only political party here that voiciferously supported law abiding licensed firearms owners against our governments knee jerk firearms amendments regulations. The current govt. ought to be ashamed of how they rammed these through. My strong feeling is that David Seymour and the Act Party deserve my vote in September.

Let's just hope he gets past the 5% and then doesn't sell us out once he is in. Unfortunately, there is no one else left to vote for.

NZ politicians are faaktup!

quote:

sell us out once he is in

Just like the USA.

Dave

Im a bit more confident in his intent. He has put The face of nz pro firearm Group, COLFO, in third spot on the party vote list. Thats a very high chance of having a pro gun representitive in parliament. And its far more than any other party has been prepared to do.

Leader of the opposition resigned - could this be a good thing for David - National are nowhere with 2 months to the election?

The problem will be if National implodes. Without National , Act have no-one to go into coalition with .....

Y'all think there is even a slight chance that Labour will be turned out?

Wishing you guys the best, once something is lost, it's damned hard to get back!

Get out the vote!

I know Karl doesn't want us Americans involved.........

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Y'all think there is even a slight chance that Labour will be turned out?

Yeah there is Bill. Even with Jacinders popularity, national until this series of meltdowns has retained close to 50% of support. Labour is riding high not because they have done a good job, but because they have had the fortune of having two catastrophic events happen.
Traditional right leaning voters are, I feel, waiting for some decent leadership from the right.
By all accounts we are heading into a terrible recession, and that tends to push people towards conservative economic policy.

Judith Collins is now leader of the opposition national party, and she is a tough piece of work with a heap of mongrel in her! Not a friend of firearms users, But still better than the alternative i think given she will need coalition partners and the only realistic one is ACT.
I think she has a good chance of putting jacinder in her place, and J is in reality a light weight and while she shines at times when empathy is required, she is fragile under questioning and when their backs are against the wall.
We just need national to stop tripping itself up. While all this was happening it was announced the Labour party is under fraud squad investigation- that should be the headline- instead we have this.

I voted for John Key and was happy with him.

Current National party are a bunch of corrupt and incompetent tyrants. Judith Colins could fit in with any 3rd world political environment. She has done back room deals with China before and will sell us out in a second.

Labour has got a lot going for it.

Great leadership and clear communication. Jacinda handled the Covid issue as well as possible. It is impossible to get 100% right in an unknown crisis. Labour has got 95% right.

The intervention of Wage subsidy has brought a lot of stability to the economy and families. Not all sectors are fine. Tourism is obviously the worst affected.

Good to see honest businesses returning the wage subsidy when they found that they did ok during lock down.

My family & I could not have survived without this economic intervention. Same goes for my daughter and many others who live pay cheque to pay cheque.

I can't quite agree.

I have not voted for either labour or national in a long time.
As far as corruption gos, I do not see a difference. Have a look into the background of Karel Sroubek for example and his alleged ties to the labour party.

The wage subsidy was good, but nothing precludes national from having done the same given the chance.
then there is a appalling way us firearms owners have been treated- issues like the Tahr one as well. Plus the incompetence of the ministers around her.
At least National is sorting out its incompetent members- the ones in govt remain.

First, credit where due. Jacinda / Labour did a great job guiding NZ through the CV crisis ( so far ). Spared Kiwis most of what less organised governments overseas are doing. She has been the right person at the critical time. Subsidies have been a welcome lifeline.
I'm not totally convinced another govt. of the day would have acted exactly the same. I think other parties were agitating to reopen our economy sooner which may, or may not, have allowed CV a pass.
If Labour regains a majority this election I think they will find it a much harder ride. Our economy will stumble along until we see decent worldwide recovery and they must reach a point where borrowing large to fund assistance starts getting really scary, and decide to shut the taps.
I've never voted Labour and that won't change this time. I've supported National but very unlikely to this time.
I agree Labour dumped on lawful firearms owners with the Firearms Law amendments and they are complicit in the Tahr cull debacle. It seems they consult over some policy and ignore consultation with groups not representing core support. I think the Police Minister is one of the incompetents.
National was alseep at the wheel over the Firearms Law amendments. When they finally woke and spoke up their arguments sounded insincere and half hearted.
ACT is the only political party who from the outset spoke in defence of lawful firearms owners and users. They have said if they are elected the Firearms Law amendment will be repealed. That issue matters to me. I'm very likely to vote ACT this time.

The trouble is that most people in NZ don't give a toss about gun owners,to the point of being scared of them.

New Zealand is becoming increasingly urbanized,people are dependent on their mobile devices to find their news stories,stories that all to often headline with wtih the latest school shooting in the USA.

They dont question why the road toll in the states is never reported in NZ or the annual deaths from Tobacco,but murder grabs attention.Then when something similar happens,everybody nods in agreement that these guns must go.

Thar/Chamois/Deer? Three quarters of our population probably couldn't identify the difference between the three,thats partly our fault as hunters for not uniting untill it was too late.

thats a good point and one of the reasons Aus and NZ dont fair as well as the US in the gun battle

1. Small population. Gun grabs are not organised at domestic level, they have the weight and money of the UN, US owned media, and left wing billionaires stretched all the way across the pacific lining up to take a piece of the action. You are seeing the problems that causes for a country the size of the US, imagine that firepower directed at acountries 15-50x smaller and then wonder why we lose.

2. Urbainsed populations. I cant speak for NZ but 70% of Australians now live in just the major dozen coastal cities.They carry the culture, mindset and the vote. The US due to its sheer size and population was set up more like an Empire to run, back in the days before instantanous comminication and transport.Aka local governors with a great deal of autonomy. Even besides their constitution, that setup allows rural or old fashioned states, to offset city madness

3. Small countries always have to toe the line in the end, that is if we want to keep trade deals, stable banks and a good standard of living. anyone sort of hairbrained revolution against global influence or Un mandates would just result in sanctions, high mortage rates and becoming the next Cuba.

The US with its immense size and autonomy from the UN has the luxury of playing domestic freedom fighter because no one is shutting off their fuel or collapsing their banks if they misbehave.

We all have different views on social issues, individual liberty, collective responsibility and politics.

I wonder how many here really understand the core values of the Act party.

1. Far Right politics
2. Pro super rich with no minimum living wage laws
3. Claims entitlement for economic advantage without paying for the consequences that the rest of society faces
4. Wants lions share of profits but not equal share of costs - particularly environmental and social costs
5. The average common citizen has to work for below minimum wage so that the "market can determine" their high profits and wealth
6. No oversight or legal consequences for White collar (financial) crimes
7. Segregation of society based on economic and ethnic identity
8. Criminal oligarchy with dismantling of basic democratic institutions that protect the whole society
9. Government of the people by a few and for a few
10. New Zealand will be sold to anyone through back room deals.

Well Naki it’s now quite obvious you have no idea what ACT stands for but thanks for your biased analysis. Sadly people with no idea or just plainly naive are allowed to vote. Lucky for you the Marxist Labour Party exists and soaks up votes from people with your perspective.

yep have to agree, thats a shockingly inaccurate portrayal of ACT.

Mate, as I said we all have different views, experiences, values, ideals, opinions and political identities.

What is missing here is accurate definition but I see just emotional over reach and just plain OPINION. NO FACTS.

Let me tell you why YOU are MORE BIASSED.

1. You called the Labour Party Marxist! You have no factual basis for that statement. I have lived and worked in an environment that included a Marxist state government, a Marxist Student union and even negotiated union settlements with Marxist unions. NZ Labour party is far away from a Marxist party as is National or ACT. FACTS.
2. I do not have any information about your work background. My experience in working for Global corporates at quite senior levels including international projects tells me that Criminal Oligarchy is a real issue around the world. Right wing politicians are the pet puppies of Criminal oligarchs. FACTS.
3. People with my perspective are the ones who have first hand experience & struggled against colonialism and its institutional barriers for the common citizen. FACTS.
4. ACT party just wants a new form of Colonialism - rule and control by a few over the rest. Servitude by the many in one form or the other. FACT
5. Just the fact that ACT holds Epsom and no other seat in the country should tell you what kind of demographic has ACT's support.
6. The day ACT gets support in South Auckland, Northland, Hawkes Bay, West Coast, South Land, Taranaki, Manawatu or almost anywhere else in NZ, then I just might take your comments seriously.
7. Just remember that if not for Labour we would not have a reasonable minimum wage or interest free student loan. ACT would want no minimum wage as it has repeatedly screamed. Act did not support interest free student loan. BUT ACT wants all the tax cuts and regulation free entitlements for BIG Business. Just look at ACT's tax policy. Just look at American minimum wages and ours. FACTS.

Enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:
Well Naki it’s now quite obvious you have no idea what ACT stands for but thanks for your biased analysis. Sadly people with no idea or just plainly naive are allowed to vote. Lucky for you the Marxist Labour Party exists and soaks up votes from people with your perspective.

Before I probably waste my time addressing your latest points of view have you bothered to read the ACT party manifesto and their policy objectives ?

And one further point. Beware playing the work experience card with me unless you want to be trumped at every hand, be it corporate, international or role responsibility. Credentials don’t wash when spruiking political ideology.

Not interested in a dispute mate.

I just responded to accusation of Bias, naivety and such uncalled for name calling on this forum. Plenty of that in the crater.

All parties have manifestos and objectives.

We also see actual behaviour and results.

28 years in NZ has been educational.

quote:

Originally posted by HendrikNZ:
Let's just hope he gets past the 5% and then doesn't sell us out once he is in. Unfortunately, there is no one else left to vote for.

NZ politicians are faaktup!

Its looking promising for ACT, 5% and climbing in the latest poll.
National needs to gain at least 10% though but at least they have moved in right direction... slightly

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Not interested in a dispute mate.

I just responded to accusation of Bias, naivety and such uncalled for name calling on this forum. Plenty of that in the crater.

All parties have manifestos and objectives.

We also see actual behaviour and results.

28 years in NZ has been educational.

No use complaining about accusations when you kick off with your own naive, biased point of view about a party that has not yet had the opportunity to demonstrate behaviour and results. You invite dispute with your post so don’t complain when the shit hits your fan.

First of all, I have every right to my opinion as do you.

You just proved that you cannot handle facts and freedom of other people to voice their opinion with out abuse and dictatorial bullying. Typical of ACT party values and behaviour.

It is YOU who is complaining and moaning about your Party not having an opportunity. It has had opportunity for over 20 years and has failed miserably. In fighting, back stabbing and bullying is all it is known for.

Why can it not attract more support? Because its policies do not address the problems of a Vast majority of Kiwis. You can keep moaning and abusing all you want. That is not going to change the failed policies of ACT.

ACT IS NOT KNOWN FOR DIGNITY, COMPASSION OR HONESTY

It actually is.
A recent example
ACTS private members bill on right to choose was 100% based on dignity and compassion.

As for honesty, its stance on the firearms legislation was very much a case of standing up for honesty and decent governance.
Again David seymour just polled as second most trusted leader in parliment behind Jacinda. Which says something given party loyalties will sway how people vote on that issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
First of all, I have every right to my opinion as do you.

You just proved that you cannot handle facts and freedom of other people to voice their opinion with out abuse and dictatorial bullying. Typical of ACT party values and behaviour.

It is YOU who is complaining and moaning about your Party not having an opportunity. It has had opportunity for over 20 years and has failed miserably. In fighting, back stabbing and bullying is all it is known for.

Why can it not attract more support? Because its policies do not address the problems of a Vast majority of Kiwis. You can keep moaning and abusing all you want. That is not going to change the failed policies of ACT.

ACT IS NOT KNOWN FOR DIGNITY, COMPASSION OR HONESTY

Once again you demonstrate your total lack of knowledge on this matter. No one is denying your right to have an opinion or bullying you so don’t waste your time trotting out that old chestnut.
You have not provided any facts at all, just your opinion.
You obviously know absolutely nothing about ACT or their proposed policy.
Furthermore, I am not moaning or complaining about anything, merely pointing out the fact that you can hardly call untested policies failures.
I called your perspective naive and every comment you’ve typed is evidence that my observation is well founded.
I recommend you read ACTs policies before any further attempts to engage on this topic.

Let me just say that Don Brash was a dishonest creep as was Rodney Hide. Self serving at best. No compassion for the average person.

All of them serve big business interests and want to enslave the common man to subservience for the elite.

Back room deals with Exclusive Brethren, remember?

Untested policies are just that - pipe dreams of a tiny minority who have history of bigotry and divisive politics.

BTW - Both National & Labour have been successful. I have voted for both in the past.

ACT is a failed party and as I said earlier, they can only claim success when they start winning elections across NZ and across the socioeconomic spectrum.

I own guns and love my guns and hunting. However I would not trade my basic human rights for anything.

Extreme Right wing parties threaten my basic human rights and those of may Kiwis.

What is the point in having gun rights if my basic human rights are stifled and oppressed?

You want facts? Are you honestly prepared to accept facts?

Just read what I have posted. Plenty of facts. You just dismiss them because they disprove your extremist views.

YOU started unnecessary name calling and bullying. THAT is a fact.

You have not shown a single bit of evidence why people should support ACT party among 95% of Kiwis. ACT is an elitist party for the few. They are NOT an inclusive party for ALL Kiwis (though they claim the usual BS). FACT

Race baiting has been a standard feature of ACT / former National politicians. FACT.

How many women leaders in ACT? How much diversity do you have in ACT party leadership? Almost none. FACT.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
First of all, I have every right to my opinion as do you.

You just proved that you cannot handle facts and freedom of other people to voice their opinion with out abuse and dictatorial bullying. Typical of ACT party values and behaviour.

It is YOU who is complaining and moaning about your Party not having an opportunity. It has had opportunity for over 20 years and has failed miserably. In fighting, back stabbing and bullying is all it is known for.

Why can it not attract more support? Because its policies do not address the problems of a Vast majority of Kiwis. You can keep moaning and abusing all you want. That is not going to change the failed policies of ACT.

ACT IS NOT KNOWN FOR DIGNITY, COMPASSION OR HONESTY

Once again you demonstrate your total lack of knowledge on this matter. No one is denying your right to have an opinion or bullying you so don’t waste your time trotting out that old chestnut.
You have not provided any facts at all, just your opinion.
You obviously know absolutely nothing about ACT or their proposed policy.
Furthermore, I am not moaning or complaining about anything, merely pointing out the fact that you can hardly call untested policies failures.
I called your perspective naive and every comment you’ve typed is evidence that my observation is well founded.
I recommend you read ACTs policies before any further attempts to engage on this topic.

2 of the top 3 in act are women.
Number 3 is Maori. Quite alot of youth in there as well.
Seems to be a fair bit of diversity in their top 5 if you listen to this. Do need FB though.
https://www.facebook.com/david...ack_reaction_generic

Truth is we do not have extreme right wing parties in NZ. I had this conversation the other day. all our parties have a decent level of social conscience and no matter who sits in power, we regularly rank up with the scandinavian country's on social issues.
Our parties do differentiate though on economic policy and in that regard being liberal, act might fit some claim of right wing. But not in the way you are using it.
I personally think economic liberalism and social responsibility fit quite well together.
And less govt - well im all in support of that so I guess that makes me elite then.
I do find it ironic though that the party that wants to let you live your life could be said to be restricting your human rights.

Once again Naki you’ve only managed to add to the perception that you’re ignorant of ACT policy and commitment. Exposing your stupidity is not bullying and it’s blatantly obvious you’re naive. I don’t care what you think so let’s close this thread and you have a nice day.

You are once again calling me names. That is just rude and it is bullying.

You have given no facts to prove that ACT policies care about ALL Kiwis including middle class, poor, sick, minorities and the elderly.

You have given me no facts to explain why ACT has not been able to attract the support of 95% of Kiwis.

You have not addressed the fact that ACT chose Don Brash as leader though he sold the country out to Far Right lobby groups like the Exclusive Brethren.

20+ years and nothing has changed.

It is YOU who is dodging the various FACTS I have put before you.

Just remember Einstein's definition of stupidity .....

You have a good day.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:
Once again Naki you’ve only managed to add to the perception that you’re ignorant of ACT policy and commitment. Exposing your stupidity is not bullying and it’s blatantly obvious you’re naive. I don’t care what you think so let’s close this thread and you have a nice day.

Naki you do realise that Brash was only involved with Act for 6 months? He had next to no impact or input into ACT and resigned when it became clear that party followers wanted nothing to do with him. That his talks with brethren were when he was a member of national? and that despite that, his govt nearly pulled off a great come back by coming very close to defeating labour at a time when labour were under one of their strongest ever leaders and caucus's.

quote:

You have given no facts to prove that ACT policies care about ALL Kiwis including middle class, poor, sick, minorities and the elderly.

Like wise, you have given none to prove that they dont.
Im not going to try prove anything to you. Their policies are available to read if you wish too. Under their current leader they have acquitted themselves well and decently with their team being very successful in opposition and the only party their who has not had a member resign this term due to errant or unethical behaviour.
In the end you will vote for who you wish. Many of us in the firearms and outdoors community have decided ACT are worth our vote due to the importance too us of the relevant issues.
This thread was not really intended as a political showdown, but rather to give some of those from other countries some information on who we might elect to represent us.

Shanks

You are a friend and thanks for the polite tone of your post.

My original post was not combative but sometimes people get rude and resort to personal attacks when they do not have facts and valid points to debate.

Thanks once again for your polite comments. I respect that.

I agree that this discussion should not have developed along the lines it did.

Naki if you want to debate politics that’s a lot different than trying to bully people with your uninformed perspective. Look up the word fact in your dictionary and then cross reference that against your anti ACT rantings.

To continue your rants when confronted with facts is just plain stupid .

To escalate the issue with even more silly unfounded opinion is the mark of someone unable to think rationally.

This is better than the tv news any day

You said you were done and now you are back again taking swipes at me.

You are the bully and the foul mouth.

You moan about a tiny minority party not getting the opportunity to implement its policies!

If ACT's policies are that great they why is ACT's popularity so poor and also so elitist?

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:
Naki if you want to debate politics that’s a lot different than trying to bully people with your uninformed perspective. Look up the word fact in your dictionary and then cross reference that against your anti ACT rantings.

To continue your rants when confronted with facts is just plain stupid .

To escalate the issue with even more silly unfounded opinion is the mark of someone unable to think rationally.

Naki when you claim they are elitist- can you explain why the pressure for parliaments politicians to take a pay cut in support of what many in the public are going through during this current crisis came from ACT?

Can you explain why all of the minor parties have and will continue to struggle for popularity? Its not just an act thing. Take TOP for example- with their UBI you could not surely call them Elitist, yet they can not get on the board at all.

Shanks

I believe that pay cut is more symbolic and a easy message to send that captures public attention. I doubt that MP's wages make a huge difference to basic living standards or to the country's budget. Definitely not for ACT MPs.

By elitist I mean that their values and goals are towards Big business and "trickle down" economics. They are the most Right wing party in NZ. They are also not known for diversity or for championing human rights. They are more concerned about individual rights of the few wealthy people. To put it simply, ACT wants high wages for its members with low tax but not a living income for the working class. That is elitist. I would like ACT to lead the charge on a living wage for all Kiwis.

The Greens are also a minority party though they are at the other end of the spectrum. A lot of passion but not sustainable in the long term.

TOP is an interesting one. Initially I was energised by them. I even attended their meeting in my town and joined the group. They wanted me to volunteer as the local organiser etc.

I soon realised that Gareth Morgan was more pro National. There was not enough of a differentiation. I also found their "personality" to be dull and with little energy or passion. That is a subjective opinion. TOP got into a "policy" vortex that was boring. I saw little of a Vision for the future of NZ.

ACT & Greens have a core base. TOP does not seem to have a core base. Even Winston & NZ First is a minority party but Winston is a street smart rabble rowser with a passionate base.

As a new immigrant and living here for 28 years I have seen NZ society change.

Most Kiwis do not realise what a diverse nation we are. We are already 50% non European. In another few years as the youth come to voting age, we will be more than 50% non European adults. I am concerned that this is not being managed well.

My worry is that not enough of the parties and leaders commit to unity, integration and channeling the diversity for a positive outcome for the country.

We are not as divided as the US. But there is still an ugly underbelly of Colonial heritage - "NZ the way it used to be".

There are so many in NZ who are against the Maori Wards in local govt though it is part of the Treaty deal.

We are New Zealand and we need to strengthen our unique identity in this diversity. ACT is certainly not doing it. Nor is National or NZ First.

Im going to throw a couple of policies at you to see if you feel they are elitist.

Tax cuts- earn under 1,5000, tax cut to 10%
under 56,000. tax cut to 17.5%
earn over 70,000 no tax cut- stays at 33%

A doubling of public health funding.

I think you have a fair bit of that wrong. Its easy to confuse right wing with less governance, yet the core value of ACT is freedom across the board. Freedom of speech, Less red tape in how we live. Smaller govt. See the above re low tax for high income earners.
Their right to die law was directly a championing of human rights. as was their support for abortion law reform. Neither of those areas of support are traditional right wing stands. They are also pro immigration and fit your concerns well with them stating that immigrants must accept diversity and freedom of other groups in NZ.

Honestly- I think the colonial heritage- NZ the way it used to be- is a crock of shit!
Its a poor argument. NZ has always been forward focussed. First country in the world to have true democracy in giving everyone the vote. One of the first if not the first to standardise an 8 hour working day.
very high rate of adoption of social policies such as free health care and education. The very reason most of our ancestors moved here was to escape colonial attitudes. And on a personnel note, you do know that my partner and step daughter are immigrants too. My step daughter got an education here before she had a visa because NZ accepts that all children must have an education.

And to finish and bring this back too the subject thats relevant to us. ACT have been the only party in parliament who stood up and recognised that the new firearms laws and they way they were brought in failed in compassion, governance and intent. That they were about scapegoating and moving forward an agenda on the back of a tragedy.