I am shooting a Rem. 700VS with a factory barrel with a 1 in 12" twist. While I have been mostly shooting 165 and 168 grain bullets between 100 and 300 yards, I have been trying lighter weights too. Would this twist work against the heavier bullets? I'm trying to get handloads under 1/2 moa at these ranges (can regularly get under 3/4 moa), but wonder if the factory tube and regular RCBS 2-die set are limiting this.

My Rem 700 P in 7.62X51 will put one through the next @ 200: I can not tell yet at 300 because I am now working at this range having never gone beyond 200 before being welcome aboard Quantico MCB, yet with the less expensive brass and bullets it will not shoot NEARLY as well. How did you brake in the barrel? (May not be a good idea to use “Flitz†too heavily) How is the crown/scope mounting/bedding? I have found that Sierra “Match Kings†from 168-175 grains shoot best with my factory barrel with the 1:12 twist and a heavy contour.

Powder has been a very large factor in getting the best results. The rifle seems to digest almost anything that is close to 100% loading density for the weight of bullet. The right seating depth has been different with every powder type so far when developing with the same bullet. ALL of the best results have been out of Lapua cases, prepped with a LE Wilson trimmer (this puppy will also square off the case heads, which if cut before the mouth gives better case to case length consistency) and flash holes chamfered slightly.

Match primers have contributed the least to over all accuracy yet no flyers have printed since the change over. Just watch for seating depth, nothing anal, just watch for one too deep or one to high and just through out the case.

My hand loading thus far, has been done with a Redding “Deluxe Die Set†(full length size, Regular neck die and regular a seating die) and a Redding “Big Boss†Press. Using a Lee aluminum press for all decapping operations has illustrated to me why a good press is necessary for an accurate product. Your RCBS setup should be close but I would recommend that you pick up a “Competition seating dieâ€. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=200390 and a regular neck die. The barrel on the rifle you mentioned should do well (0.2â€) if fed loads tuned for it and they will probably be too long to put in the mag.

Best of luck and Good shooting!

With the 12 twist 308 you should be able to shoot up to 190 grain bullets with pretty good accuracy. With 155 to 175 grain bullets Varget or VV540 make good powders and with the 190s try some 4064 or VV550. I don't know if you'll get 1/2 minute at 300 yards with the factory barrel, but it should be worth a try.

your barrels twist will handle 110''s to 190''s easily,if your grouping 3/4 your on the rite track,maybe you should re-fine your re-loads,are you shooting your groups to fast,it could be your bench technique,your front rest,back rest , trigger control, scope.
you are your best judge,proof shows up in the groups....regards

Using the bullets you mention at 300 yards and uder, the rifle should easily shoot under 1/2 MOA.

IMR 4064 and 4895, Varget, R15, VV 540 and others will all have the capability for this.

I assume you are using Federal 210M primers, or CCi BR, though in the final analysis that's probably the last concern. But you must clean the pockets and uniform them!

Lapua or Winchester sorted & prepped brass, by weight of cours.

The Sierra bullets are quite jump capable so I wouldn't be concerned about cartridge overall length until a final tuning.

That leaves the dies in question, or their setup. Have you been sure to have the decapping pin centered. Tightening it down only when a case is being drawn through it. As to the sizing itself, not over doing it, as the Rem may have a pretty large chamber. I leave about a 1/16 of an inch of the neck un sized to allow for centering the previousily fired case in my Rem VSSF's chamber.

When seating the bullets, are your case mouths square? Is there a chamfered edge for them to enter the case easily? Do you check for run out?

What weight does your trigger break at, and what sighting system are you using? Are the targets you are using giving you a precise aiming point? Is your bench technique consistent?


If yes to all of the above sell the blister and buy another one and start over.

Lot of responses, let me deal with them one at a time.

Rex Rat: I got the rifle several years ago when I just started reloading, and didn't break in the barrel, other than just shooting it. It has only had a little over 300 rounds put through it, so is there a hope of "salvaging" or "improving" it?

My case prep of late has not been as meticulous as it should be, so paying more attention to this will help. And I will graduate to a competition seating die, and probably a neck sizer too. Probably from Midway.

clowdis: I shot a bunch with BL-C(2) at first (ok, not exactly a target powder), and it gave good results, and am now working with Benchmark and will move to the Varget sitting in my closet too.

jjmp: One's bench technique can make a big difference, to be sure. The range I shoot at does have benches, but they are atrocious. The table edge toward the shooter slants away from him, is too far away from average sized shooters, and the seat is fixed as part of the bench and can't be moved. The best shooting tables I have used were at Ft Riley - the table was cut in an L shape, and you sat on a separate chair - the shooter could snug up and get in a rock solid, supported, repeatable position.

308Sako: I am using CCI Benchrest Primers. I need to pay better attention to uniforming the flash hole and primer pocket. I have a bunch of Remington brass already, and I sort it by weight after decapping. Or should I go through my entire supply of brass and separate/categorize all of it by weight? I have both virgin and fired-through-this-rifle brass, so I will measure them both and see how much difference I am getting.

I don't know the measured trigger pull, but have adjusted it to break with little effort, but not unsafely. The scope is a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5x14x40 with target turrets, not exactly a benchrest scope, but clear and reliable. It is sitting in Redfield Jr. mounts and Redfield rings. I am thinking about lapping them and remounting the scope if it worth it. The targets are usually Outer's Scorekeeper targets with the four small sets of concentric rings with an orange dot in the center. Like I said above the benches at the range suck, but I try to compensate with a Caldwell Rock rest and Protektor bags.

All said, thanks for the advice. I have been reloading for a number of years, but it has been hunting-quality, just make-it-shoot reloading. I am ready to step up with this rifle and get a little more picky with it. Just not ready to run out and buy a 1000 ct case of Lapua brass yet, but will get competition dies and pay more attention to case prep.

I hate to bust your bubble, but you will not get 1/2"MOA at 200 or 300yds with a factory rifle and barrel. You may get a billfold group every once in a while if you are shooting 3 shot groups.
Butch

Billfold group?

Sounds like you have a good start. Try seating Serra 175 grn Match Kings just touching the lands and work backward until you find the right jump. The SMK has been easy to tune for me, the Berger VLD on the other hand has been very touchy but at 250- 300 + yards the Berger 175 VLD is HOT!

If the bore does not copper foul then I would not worry about it just do not get it hot. I try to shoot it a constant rate that allows it stay at about the same temp. Check your crown (should be fine) and use a bore guide but you probably already do. My Rem shoots the same POI for more than thirty shots but thirty is about the extent of my day at the range. May take 3-4 hours to shoot 30 times! After a shoot I clean it down to metal with a bore foam and one good rubdown (5 strokes) of a very fine bore paste to get down a little deeper.

Hodgdon Varget (varmint target) is a very uniform powder so it should burn well for us all. The powder is only half of the equation the case volume is a huge contributor. Most cases in a batch of Lapua or Norma should be regular enough to not need sorting for most shooters but I figure that if I want the best out of the rifle, sorting is a good way of ensuring consistent burns.
Good luck and keep um in the 10X

Sputster, don't you have a little, tiny group, that you carry in your billfold, to show to your buddies? I made ten copies of mine because carrying them in your billfold tends to wear them out over a period of several years.

sputster,
great point on that slanted bench,nothing wrong with rem,fed,or win, brass,cci-br-2 primers are great as are gold match210 federals if and when you can get their.
good reloading to ya,jjmp

Ahh, billfold group, I see. No, after each days' shooting I take the target home and hang it up on the wall in the garage or reloading room. That way, besides looking through shooting notes, I can visually see what went right or wrong. But I dinna carry 'em in da wallet.

And there are the odd groups that are so good, and I scratch my head, saying "damn, how can I do that again?" Point taken.

butchlambert, thanks for the reminder of realism, but I must have misstated myself. I think I can pay attention and get consistent 1/2 moa at 100 and 1 moa at 200 with what I have, considering I can get 3/4 moa and 1 moa right now with my sloppy reloading practices. But you are right, if I want really high improvement I will need to invest in higher quality barrel, brass - but until then I will shoot what I have and keep having fun.

If your consistently getting 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups with that gun, sit back and relax - kinda like Butch says, if you want better, get a better barrel (at least). 3/4 MOA out of a factory .30 cal is plenty fine in anybody's book.

Back in the 1960's, the US Navy and US Air Force rifle teams used 190 grain Sierra's in their 7.62mm Garands. Their 1:12 twist barrels would put 'em into about 4 inches at 600 yards. To do that well at 600, they've got to go into about 1/4th inch at 100 yards.

The load was a new LC M118 match case and primer (172-gr. bullet and IMR4895 powder removed) then 44 grains of IMR4320 put in and the 190 seated about .050-inch off the lands.

But anything consistantly under an inch at 100 yards with a factory barrel, action and stock is rare. Remember that accuracy should be based on what one can depend on all the time, not just one or a few 3- or 5-shot groups. One 21-shot group tells one much more about rifle, ammo or shooter accuracy than seven 3-shot groups.

Target Shot at 300 yards

This is my wallet group from this year, the rifle has nearly 4,400 rounds down the pipe and is a FACTORY REMINGTON 700 VSSF. Bullet, Lapua Scenar 155 powder VV 140. I have not shot a better group(s) at this distance, but after breakin and during most all of it's paper punching life this rifle as avergaed 1/3 MOA with 155 to 175 grain match bullets, on my better days. Your rifle will do better, just shoot it!