I've posted this on the medium bore forum, but I guess these guns are really well known in Europe. Thanks


Hello guys,
this is my first post so please be gentle and participate

I live in Europe and have been hunting for a few years, especially deer and wild boar.
I've owned a few rifles in the past (Remington 700 BDL, Sako, mauser 03, etc.) with different results and now I'm left with a couple of CZ's 550
But now I need to buy ONE rifle, but I really need it to have one special characterists

1- It has to be an interchangeable barrel rifle/take down (for different reasons, you can only own a certain number of rifles here in Europe and a "system" like blaser or Merkel KR1 only count as one) and due to ease of transport

So,
I really need your help as I'm kind of lost:

1-I don't trust Blaser R93 that much, the bolt etc.... but on the other hand, thousands of owners can't be all wrong. But there were a few accidents in the past , but I guess those happen with all rifles

2-I really like the Merkel as it meats the requirement above and is a somewhat more traditional bolt rifle

3-I don't really like (but never used one) Sauer 202 take down.. and it is really expensive.

Guys, please help me out here... should I go with the Merkel ? feedback

thanks ! and I really love this Forum

If you really like the Merkel then buy it!!

I have no experience with them but do have a few Sauer 202's. You wont need the "take down" model as the standard model takes down very well and fits nicely into a relatively small case.

Good luck
Ed

Ed, same answer as I gave on the medium bore forum. Why would anybody bother with a 202 takedown?

"Sauer 202 defintely.

However, I would not buy a takedown as I see no point, not to mention the large extra cost. The stock comes of the standard rifle in under 30seconds for a perfect travelling rifle. The Sauer is the only way to go."

Heym.
I personally use sr30`s straight pulls in 30-06 and 22-250,can`t fault either and I got a 458 safari which is great rifle too

I owned a Sauer 202 rifle, yes they are expensive,but the quality is definitely worth it. In my opinion it is the best modular takedown system on the market.

well,
i gave an important reason why I need a take down. we are only allowed to own 5 rifles and one take-down system only counts as one rifle... regardless of the number of barrels you have! stupid I know.

I would prefer having a rifle, where the scope is mounted on the barel, not on the receiver. A lot more accuracy for sure.

Luis,

The Sauer 202 is a great rifle. some have issues withthe safety catch in the trigger guard, but it isn't as bad as some say and it is entirely silent. The regular Sauer 202 is available in the following:

.223 Rem.
.22-250
.243 Win.
6,5 x 55
6.5 x 57
.25-06 Rem.
.270 Win.
7 x 64
.308 Win.
.30-06
8x57 IS
9,3 x 62

The advantage with the Take down model from whatI understand is that it allows you to put barrels of either 375/.416 on the same receiver as your regular deer rifle. If Dangerous game in Africa or huntin in the US (in bear country) is an option, then this is a distinct advantage to help minimise future expenditure.

Personally I have the standard model and use it exclusively. There are only 2 things that spoil this rifle for me a little and both are easily overcome. Firstly I find the stock a bit short, (but that is a very personal problem) and secondly if you are not carefull on how you tighten th foreend to the action the edge sometimes touches the barrelif it is too loose or too tight. It is easily remedied by taking a little wood from the foreend with some fine paper.

Even still I would seriously reccomend the rifle and consider buying another myself.

Rgds,
FB

luis,

You appear to tend to the Merkel. Personally, I don't care for the looks of the KR-1; your choice, not mine and lastly, Why Not?. If you like it - get one! As an aside though - I've never seem one outside of Merkel's booth at a Trade Show; neither in a Store, being used in the field or at the range.

I've limited personal expereince with the Sauer, although in my neck of the woods they are almost as popular as the Blaser and quite a few of my hunting buddies have them. They all consider them outstanding rifles. FB makes three good points. The forearm tightening issue with both synthetic & wooden stocks seems to be the most common issue and I did surgery on a synthetic stock (the sandpaper trick) for a firend's 202 in .300 Weatherby Magnum. Also like FB says; I can't figure out why someone would pay extra for the Take-Down since of the buttstock, action, forearm & barrel, the barrel is the longest bit anyway and you can't shorten that without cutting it down so you've already reached the lowest common denominator for length & travel considerations and as it is; fits in a pretty short travel package. I can't comment too much on the "expensive" part but my friends all seem to able to aquire extra Sauer barrels at seemingly VERY reasonable prices. Lastly, the safety which appears to take some familiarization.

I own a Blaser R93 w/5 barrels & sythetic stock, never had a problem; not one, period. I've got one, will stay with it and yes; therefore I'm Blaser biased.

As for the scope/barrel/action mounting issue; that may perhaps be a personal consideration but about the biggest Non-Issue I've heard lately. The Blaser's scope mounts are on the barrel and the Sauer's on the action, can't comment on the Merkel 'cause I can't remember. Both Blaser and Sauer's are superbly accurate.

Have fun making your choice.

well... i'm confused by some comments about the Blaser (some really hate it, others love it).. never seen someone say it's just ok.

that is the only reason I'm inclined to go for the Merkel... I've never seen anyone say bad things about it.
and there are really no other options in terms of take downs...
only these two seem to have the mounts attached directly on the barrel not on the receiver.

thanks guys.. I really appreciate all your comments

Luis,

With a decent set of mounts the accuracy issue you mention should be virtualy irrelevant.

One thing that does spring to mind though is that if you put mounts (fixed or swing-offs) onto a Barrel and you want to add a barrel to get another calibre then surely you will need another set of mount bases. That could inflate the price of each new barrel you buy.

I don't have a Blaser nor have I used one as the straight pull bolt scare the daylights out of me, so I may be mistaken. Pls correct me if I am wrong.

FB

Of course it does inflate the price of each barrel.
but 1 barrel in Europe costs around 750$ plus the mounts... which is always less expensive than buying a new rifle.

I know the difference can't be much... but nothing can beat a barrel with a scope attached to it.. it is like one single unit

I've never owned a R93 but I did own a Blaser Express B97 (cal. 9,3x74R) and I sold it after a couple of months... horrible experience in terms of accuracy and reliability.

luismat

I own a Blaser R93 and have no problems with it. your choice at the end of the day though. Two others to consider could be Chapuis and Schultz & larsen I believe they have interchangeable barrels.

I am half way around the world from you, but I am currently in possession of 3 Blaser receivers and 4 barrels and am in the LOVE catagory. All have great triggers, are super accurate, and take down in seconds. As for reliability and safety, my Blaser experiences have been nothing but positive.

I can't speak on the Merkel or Sauer from personal experience, but I have a friend that is totally obsessed with Sauer 202's. He is, however, a new convert to Blasers and has started himself a nice collection of them too.

In the end, like has others have said, it all comes down to YOUR personal preference. Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide.

Jeff,

Go for the standard Sauer 202 not the take-down. Swotching barrels still takes on a few minutes. Though alternate barels are expensive you save on have to buy another scope and mounts plus the inevitable bit of custom gunsmithing to get it just perfect.
Blaser is great but too technical for me but if you loose your knife you can always stab the beast to death with the rails on the bolt.

Mark

Luismat,
If price is not an issue then take a look at the hs precision on gunbroker.com.


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=67599234

regards
griff

Luis,

you could consider going another, more classical way:

Get a Blaser K95 single shot with barrels in, let's say, .222 Rem, 6.5x57 R and .300 Win Mag or, alternatively 8x75 RS or 9.3x74 R. You'll never need anything else.

Luismat

What part of the world do you live in?

I have the Sauer 202 in 25-06 and 9.3x62, with fluted barrels, in a synthetic sotck.

I have the Blaser R93 in the Professinal synthetic stock and the attache, in 223, 6.5x55, 270, 30-06 and 9.3x62.

I just got a Blaser K75 in 7x57, single shot, takedown.

I also have the Mauser 03, also a take down system, in 300 WM, 375 & 416 Rem.

Lot's of Guns? God Bless the Second Amendemnt to the US Constitution.

Here's how I rate them:

I have gone back and forth on the R93. It travels well, returns to zero and is very accurate out of the box. My attache is truly a beautiful rifle.

I don't like the feel of the action, it is kind of clunky. The magazine is plastic and a blind magazine, which I don't like.

Plus, there is the issue of the bolt failures. I had some experience with this. Had some 8x68s loaded up by Superior Ammo. The first round I put in and fired, the spent cartridge would not eject. I had to hammer the bolt back,

Superior Ammo listened to me and said they had a bad batch of hot powder (???) and the the rounds were loaded too hit, and they would credit me and replace em.

Point is-- the Blaser R93 handled the hot loaded without failure. Lucky for me.

The 202 is really great, the bolt locks into the barrel, and it has a detachable mag, carries well and travels well.

The Mauser 03 is a little rough in fit, finish and feel, but they have a good, sturdy design on their large calibers.

The most beautiful rifle is the K95. Just very sweet, so if you can do everything you want with a single shot, this is the ticket.

I prefer the 202- not too expensive, detachable mag, traditional bolt and smoooth action. The Blaser wins in tha attache if you want a beautiful bolt rifle.

Hope this helps

Here's another vote for the Sauer 202 - I'm very impressed with the build quality. I cannot speak for the take down model, but with the standard 202 it is a breeze to remove the barrel for travelling. My ones in 9.3x62 but I'm planning to get another barrel in 6.5x55. If you're panning to have multi calibres watch out for which ones share the same bolts and mags...e.g. 22-250 & .243 win need a different bolt to all the other calibres - not a problem except for the extra money for another bolt.

You might also take a look at HEYM in Germany.

They have what they call a receiver barrel. That means that the receiver and barrel is a removeable unit that is proof fired together. With a HEYM you have a removeable metal magazine and the option between the straight pull SR 30 and the three lug bolt action SR 21. With a simple tool you can lossen two captive screws on the bottom of the receiver and remove the receiver barrel from the stock and the lower receiver group. You can also use the same bolt. The rifle is avaiable in most calibers from .22-250 to .338 Win Mag.

You can break down the rifle into a small carrying case and if you want have an extra receiver barrel. The disadvantage is the you are stuck either in normal calibers or magnum calibers. You cannot move between the two.

HEYM has not marketed this concept very well so many do not know that this is possible. You do not have the same flexibility that you have with the R93 but the trade off is a more conventional looking rifle, with a true removeable magazine, without any plastic or stamped metal parts, as well as the choice between a straight pull and a bolt action. I personally have an SR 30 Keiler (shorter Wild Boar) rifle in 8x57 IR. The straightpull SR 30 is based on a design by Peter Fortner the same man who designed the Anschutz action for Biathelon rifles. On a drive hunt in Germany the hunter to my right took three wild boar in a mater of a several seconds with his SR 30.

Good luck in your search for the perfect rifle for your hunting the rifle listed are all good but I think that HEYM also deserves a hard look.

ARROW

luis,

Where are you - my friend?

I enjoy this forum for it's great exchanges but cannot understand someone who initiates an interesting topic/thread and then for whatever reason checks out of the net.

Vacation, business travel, no computer connection, personal issue or did the power go out in Europe?

Good, bad advice or objective personal preferences? You are getting some solid leads and objective testimony IMO?

"Please help" sounds to me like the requested advice is urgently required.

Get a Sauer. You can't go wrong with it. I have a S202 in 7X64 and it is an absolute dream. Reliable as hell. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it. Ever. The R93 is great but all that straight-pull-hi-tech mambo-jumbo makes me a little suspicious, feels a bit too delicate to me. The S202 is a sturdy tried and tested design, although CAD designed and manufactured by guys in white labcoats. Plus I have a Sauer shotgun from around 1920. My great granddad, grandpa and me have all used it regularly and after almost 90 years it still looks (and performs) better than any 10 year old gun. I think that says something about Sauer quality.

sorry for not replying sooner but I was out of the country.

anyway I have made up my mind (thanks to all the advice) and I have decided to go for the R93
and I've ordered 3 barrels
243 , a 7mm RM and a 9,3x62



thanks guys!

luis,

Cool! Good choice and a nice selection of barrels that will cover alot of hunting possibilities.

Not much that can't be done with that lot.

A wise choice congratulations

Oh my Goodness Blaser

Wise choise! I have a Timber (syntethic with "wood enamel"... Tacky, but I dont care) with three barrels: 6.5x55 (with silencer), 300 wsm and 375 H&H. Absolutely love it! POI is 10 cm (ab 3 inches) different between the 6.5x55 and 300 wsm barrels = I can use the same scope. I have just test shot the 375 H&H barrel. That was... interesting... with the light synthetic stock. Plan to take it moose hunting in Canada next fall. The advantage of the Blaser is super presicion right out of the box. Easy and 100% accurate detachable mounts, and simple and fast barrel changes. Good luck!
Bent

quote:

1-I don't trust Blaser R93 that much, the bolt etc.... but on the other hand, thousands of owners can't be all wrong. But there were a few accidents in the past , but I guess those happen with all rifles

There has only been one accident with the current bolt house made of aluminium, the other was with the 1st housing made of plastic.
In Sweden they made a test with 8 differet rifles where the blocked the barrel with another bullet 10 cm after the chamber. http://www.testfakta.se/Article.aspx?a=16350

hi, luismat . you have just walked on a wasps nest so il add to it .. go get yourself a sako no fuss no messing about no swaping no changing .just load the thing and hunt

I understand your distrust of thr R93 added to that many of the ones I have seen, have very poorly made and flexibke stocks, the forends flex so much that the bluing wears off the barrel, and obviously this greatly affects accuracy.

The merkel I have no first hand knowledge of.

The 202 is good but barrels are expensive and if something goes wrong you have spent the same as it would cost to buy two rifles but dont have 1 until it is fixed.

Personally if I wanted a switch barrel I would look at the SHR90 same switch barrel design as the 202 but with better (safer) safety, better magazine (5 shot twin stack), and stainless rather than ally reciever. plus you will get a rifle and two barrels for less than the cost of just the 202 without an extra barrel

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
I understand your distrust of thr R93 added to that many of the ones I have seen, have very poorly made and flexibke stocks, the forends flex so much that the bluing wears off the barrel, and obviously this greatly affects accuracy.

Let me add some more confusion to the affair!

http://www.ruag.co.uk/resource...es/Titan07%20(3).pdf

Luismat,
in which country do you live? I'm interested only to know and understand the different gun laws that exist in EU. Thank you

Go for the Sauer 202. I have two of them (25-06 Wolverine and 9,3x62 Team Sauer with Synthetik Stock).
I have other rifles but I use the 202 a lot, last time driven boar in Turkey with 9,3, very good success. I use the Picatinny Rail for mounting, very sturdy and flexible.

Do not buy the R93 but think of Blaser's best gun: K95.

For the price of a single Blaser R93,
you can get here the rifle + 2 more barrels.
Its only an idea, I myself never had a Voere rifle in my hands

http://www.voere.de/fruhe_fertigung.htm

Burkhard

I forgot

My vote ist Sauer

I have a non take down sauer 202 in 6,5x55, it is a fine riffle. Accurate and well balanced. Shoot a reindeer this autum with it. Looking to get a 9,3x62 barrel for it. The after stock comes off easy, see this thread.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...00106493/m/914103449

I have handled Voere riffle and it looks ok but not as nice as the Sauers.

I own and love both :

My prefered travel pack : R93 + bbl. in .300 Win Mag / Swaro 2,5-10x42 + bbl. in 9,3x62 Mag-Na-port / Swaro 1,25-4x24 illuminated reticle.


Sauer 202 + bbls. in 7x64 & .30-06.

They all shoot well below MOA.

The Sauer looks more traditional and is nicely finished (scope has to be rezeroed after a bbl. swap, though).

The R 93 OffRoad stock is weather proof and bbl. mounted scopes stay zeroed after bbl. change. The caliber combo allows universal hunting.

Why are you guys by “resurrecting” a post that is over one year old?
Even the member that started it seems to be “dead and gone”!

B.Martins