Guys

As I don my flame retardant suit, I feel compelled to ask about the depth of feeling for and against the Blaser 93 rifle on this site (not just the Euro forum, the whole AR board). Please understand this is a genuine question on my part, not some troll.

I see posts from some who love this rifle and some that hate it with a passion. While this love / hate war rages amongst fans of other rifle makes, I dont usually see the same intensity, except perhaps towards the Mauser 98.

My own experience of the Blaser 93 is limited to sighting in a friend’s in 300 Win Mag (he is very happy with his). Please clue me into what I am or am not missing.

Thanks for any input.

Fergus

Did you pick a hornet's nest on that subject. I have used one since 1995, never let me down, taken it all over the world. Let the bonfire begin!

Aleko

To keep it simple, those who criticize Blasers don't own / haven't fired one, while Blaser owners praise them. As for myself, I own 3. Enough said...

Fergus,

Good on ya Mate, this will be an interesting thread.

I, as you are; am perpelxed by the emotion evoked by the R93 and in general to Blaser as a rifle manufacturer. What I don't get is not just the slam against this particular manufacturer but the apparent insults directed at the users & owners of R93's?

Like Aleko, I've been using the R93 system since 1998 and also like yourself am left-handed. Just for openers I really enjoy the R93 because of the ambidextrous flexibility. I've both left & right handed bolts (left/right ejection) and the bolt carriers(L-H/R-H bolts). I don't know of another rifle that can be switched from right to left-handed like this in just a couple of seconds. I find this to be a super flexible system for my son and hunting guests who are right-handed and myself & my wife who are left-handed.

It's a modular system and yes, I'll admit the bits & pieces are not inexpensive. I've got .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, .30/06 Springfield and .375H&H barrels. This covers alot of rifle territory as far as I'm concerned. The Saddle Mounts are pretty flexible also since you can mix & match mounts and scopes among the barrels as well. Personally, some only required a couple clicks up/down to have a perfect zero from one barrel to another.

Another plus is that I've yet to see a Blaser barrel that didn't shoot very well indeed and most are absolute tack drivers.

While I've plenty of other rifles which I use regularly I enjoy and use my R93 alot. The .375H&H & .30/06 barrels have about as many air miles as I do.

It is rare that I hunt with anything but my Blasers these days, and it has been like that since I got my first R93 about 10 years ago. The fact you can carry a loaded rifle in complete safety is the clincher for me. Add to that unprecedented flexibility - I switch calibers, stocks and scopes within minutes - plus the ease of travelling with a break-down gun inside your duffle (in locked take-down case) is a real advantage. The R93 is really fast for follow-up shots, but this is one feature I rarely need in my hunting, but for people who hunt driven game, only doubles and possibly levers come close to the speed of an R93 (semis are restricted in Europe).

A lot of people dislike the R93 due to its CNC heritage. No hand fitted parts here. Fair enough, an R93 will never be as smooth or well fitted as a first class European rifle (Heym, Sauer etc). But as a tool, the R93 easily holds its own.

The R93 seems to be one of those arms that either solicit complete devotion or complete disgust. I certainly have no problem with people having gained experience and making another choice. After all, they made an informed decision to use something else. Then there are a bunch of very vocal opponents, who have rarely had any experience with the gun. But since the Blaser took over practically all (60-70%?) of the Central European market for repeaters, it became very popular to stand out as one of the few who shoot something else. Sadly, the opnion of these people often seem to be formed mostly by emotion as opposed to knowledge and experience.

- mike

Like Aleko, Gerry, and Mike, I too love the damn things.

I have a K95 with two barrels, and two R93s with 4 barrels and more on the way.

I couldn't imagine a rifle system I like more.

Mike's right it's not as fine a gun as a Sauer or Heym in the fit and finish department. But a Blaser is accurate enough, dependable enough, and versitility it has in spades.

My only real dissapointment in this whole Blaser concept is they keep coming out with new models, keeping the credit card maxed out.

I wish that the parts were cheaper. The factory scope mounts are $225-E300. EAW mounts are $400, and Killic mounts are E250. Right now no one else that I know of is making mounts. It's kind of hard to swallow another $250 mount everytime you buy another barrel.

My favorite thing is the safety. Decocked on a round in the chamber! Best in the world!

I have had some experience of R93's. I have shot a couple and handled a few more.

I just don't like the style of them. I don't think they are crap, I don't think they are any more likely to blow up than any other rifle, they are just not to my taste.

I have a Sauer 202 which I think is the best money I ever spent on anything. My next rifle will almost certainly be another Sauer.

I am, however, intrigued by the new Mauser 03 which seems to combine the best elements of both Blaser and Sauer. I have not managed to get my hands on one yet, but they are more traditional in style and also feature a Blaser sytle decocker. Anyone have any experience of these?

The only thing I don't like about the 03, is that the rifle scope doesn't lock into the barrel.

I love Sauers too. I am trying to find a 2nd hand 300 or 9.3x62 Alaska with sights in the states.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
I am, however, intrigued by the new Mauser 03 which seems to combine the best elements of both Blaser and Sauer. I have not managed to get my hands on one yet, but they are more traditional in style and also feature a Blaser sytle decocker. Anyone have any experience of these?

Claret, I can certainly sympathize with your choice of the Sauer 202. The Sauers remain pretty much top of the line of European factory rifles. Not only are they well made, they also shoot well.

Of late I handled both a Sauer 202 and a Mauser 03 side by side. I really liked the decocking feature of the Mauser - I would, as that is my main reason to like the Blaser. I liked the way the Mauser action worked, and I liked the "Blaser like" options of easy take-down and switch barrels. But I liked the Sauer stock a LOT more than the M03, which, to be honest, felt a bit like a club after having handled the Sauer.

ErikD of late mentioned Mauser might come out with a synthetic stock for the M03. I hope it will be better designed than the wooden one I handled.

Naturally, all the above is highly subjective, and just one man's opinion. Maybe you'd feel entirely opposite...

- mike

The Blaser, Sauer, and Mauser03 use alot of cross over technology. The barrels are all pretty much made the same way. I think the reason that Blaser has such a following are 5 reasons.

1. Lots of calibres .222 to .416 Rem
2. Wonderful accuracy, out of the box ready
3. Scopes mounted to the barrels
4. Fast follow up shots
5. Very simple to change calibre to calibre

I am suprised that the negative comments have not started yet, is Johan's internet connection down??????

Aleko

Guys

Thanks for the comments. Like some of the other posters, I am somewhat surprised that no negative comments have been posted.

What the pro Blaser posts are telling me is kind of what I expected to hear, but its nice to have it validated. I doubt I’ll ever own a Blaser, as I have so many turn bolt rifles - but you never know.

Fergus

Hi Guys,

Just to add another $0.02 worth to this thread; that to my great astonishment hasn't been trolled by all the Great & Good Blaser bashers - yet!

Perhaps they're out busy hunting with their favorite rifles, and not in front of the computer - if so, good on 'em!!!

The cross-over technology that's been mentioned by Aleko; funny that all of these rifle manufacturers mentioned, Blaser, Mauser, Swiss Arms and Sauer are all owned by the same consortium?

Well, I hate Blasers because they take up too much shelf space in the local retailers. All the nice rifles get pushed out and you can’t find a decent selection of rifles anywhere anymore!

The rifles are different enough that they’re going to provoke a reaction one way or another. Seriously, I wonder how much “Blaser bashing†is genuine heartfelt contempt for the rifle and how much is having a dig at something that is different and commercially successful. While I can’t learn to love their looks, there’s certainly no denying they have some nice features, especially for the traveling sportsman.

quote:

3. Scopes mounted to the barrels

I'm not really so sure that the above matters that much. When I used to take my scope off the Blaser I previously owned, and put it back on, there was no change in point of impact. I can say the same thing about taking off, and putting back on, scopes with any other quality detachable mount (ERA or EAW for example) that I own, have owned or have used. So I presume the same would go for a M03 with their mounting system, or a Sauer with a quality swingmount.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and am missing something?

Erik,

I don't think you're missing anything at all, except that Aleko's point is pretty valid on Blaser Saddle Mounts.

EAW are great mounts that increase the optic options for a single rifle, normally using the same barrel. They will not usually fit on different rifles/scopes once mounted due to ring spacing and height differences.

In my experience I find the Blaser barrel scope mounting affords alot of flexibility when mixing & matching scopes on different barrels/platforms as the Saddle Mount fit all current production Blaser rifles, R's, K's, B's, D's & S's.

Also there is in my expereince very little point of impact change when changing scopes since the mount is more closely aligned to the barrel not the action.

Gerry,

I see your point regarding differant scopes fitting several (all) Blasers. This is of course unlikely with a EAW etc on differant rifles.

What I meant to say though was that I would presume that even though the scope mount on a M03 is aligned to the action and not the barrel, that it most likely won't make a big differance. However, since I have not tried a M03 myself yet, I may be wrong. I would like to hear how things go if one take the scope off the M03, then removes and refits the barrel, and finally puts on the scope again. With the barrel having been removed, I wonder if this more likely might make a differance. But maybe not. If you look at highend take-down M98s made by Ritterbursch/Johannsen etc, taking off and putting on the barrel doesn't change the point of impact to any degree that matters in practical hunting. And the scope on them is after all mounted on the action, usually with an integral ERA or EAW swingmount in the squarebridges.

If I may borough someone’s (posting on AR) signature, when it comes to Blaser’s R93:

“I am neither for it nor against it, in fact, quite the contrary.â€

I own a few guns and, as a rule, I tend to keep them even if I don’t use them that much any more. Until today I have only sold a very accurate HK 940 (because I was too heavy and was ruining my back!), and two R93s (because I never felt at ease when developing loads for them!)
Maybe I am being a little bit paranoid about Blaser R93 safety issues, but having a stuck bolt after shooting a load you know is perfectly safe in any other rifle and definitely below all recommended maximums, doesn’t built up your confidence and makes you wonder when that bolt is going to hit you in the face!
Apart from this I have to consider those two rifles as some of the most accurate and easy to handle I ever owned!

I sold those R93s and bought a K95!

B.Martins

B.Martins, how is that new 202 in 9.3x62 working out for you?

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
B.Martins, how is that new 202 in 9.3x62 working out for you?

Brian,


I am still in the process of developing some loads for it.
So far I have tried loads that have been developed for other rifles (CZ 505 and Blaser R93) and find the Sauer to be accurate but I think I can push the loads up a bit more and see if I can get even more accurate loads.
I will do that as soon as the hunting season ends.

B.Martins

The hottest discussions about the Blaser R93 happened in German hunting forums.
And I can't say that the "Blaser haters" fired these debates. In many cases, Blaser "lovers" were worse.
In comparison, there is no debate here at AR.

A lot of the discussions in Europe was senseless babble.
Still, there were quite some reports pointing to weak spots of the R93.

Fuhrmann

I have a K95 which I love but I don't and won't have an R93

Likes

Quality of 'bluing'
Straight line stock in Off Road 'Timber'
Carried decocked on safe

Dislikes

Radial bolt
Short 22" barrels
3round mag capacity
Safety (which seems more awkward than the K95 despite both being decockers)
Length 'bolt' comes to rear.

I summarised it that the speed of reload was negated by the lack of capacity (a responsible stalker shoots one less than his mag holds so with the R93 unless one is going to mess around with hand feeding into the chamber you cannot shoot a roe doe and 2 fawns which is a serious negative for the UK stalker) and that at least as I tried it I had to unshoulder to prevent the bolt hitting me in the cheek.

I repeat I love the finish and the Timber stock fit...

I suppose the two biggest downsides to Blasers are the cost of parts, and cost of parts.

I am still not sure how I feel about the expanding collet concept. I have seen a lot of rifle blow ups that wern't Blasers. So I guess they all kind of go poof!

Even Mausers, MkV Weatherbys, M700s, M70s, and more lever actions that you can imagine.

The M700 and the MkV are suppsed to have strenghts to 200,000 CUP.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
I am still not sure how I feel about the expanding collet concept. I have seen a lot of rifle blow ups that wern't Blasers. So I guess they all kind of go poof!

Even Mausers, MkV Weatherbys, M700s, M70s, and more lever actions that you can imagine.

I suppose one can blow up any kind of action.
The issue would be the direction of the "blow", or of any flying parts.

Fuhrmann

just put a deposit on a safari model blaser R93, and i have to say i'm looking foward to all the options that can be added to it.
I have resisted the Blaser hype for years now, mainly because i own a number of rifles that have always had a practical use for, so I could not justify having another rifle with 3-4 barrels, but a few mates of mine shoot them and love them, so now i have finnally given in to my own desires.

Gerry you put him up to asking that didn't you.
The Blaser R93 is the best marketed and advertised rifle of the 20th Century. unfortunatly it is a pile of alcan junk. I hate the damn things. I wouldn't trust my life to one. it makes an awful sound when cycling the action, the magazine is a joke.

they tend however to be accurate, and the flange lockup of the bolt warrants further developement and incorporation into a more traditionaly styled bolt action.
I like the K series, the doubles,the bockbuchsflinte and the drillings are also ok.
Ive worked on a lot of defective R93's.

EAW swing of mounts are unreliable.
Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Lincoln:

Ive worked on a lot of defective R93's.

EAW swing of mounts are unreliable.
Pete

Pete,

Can you tell us in what way these have been defective?

And in what way do you find the EAWs unreliable? I've been told by some gunsmiths that ERA (Recknagel) are more reliable than the EAW in the longrun. Have you experianced the same?

I think Blasers are ugly and the straight pull is something that I´d never get used to.

But as it´s a free world I´ll let you guys go on liking them!

Erik, i posted a reply days ago, dunno why it didn't appear,.,
flanges on the bolt breaking of, ejectors jamming, extracters breaking, bennt carrier rails, magazine problems,
the blaser r93 is just not a rifle that wuill last long under heavey usage.

EAW swing of mounts have to many parts to come loose, they work fine for the rifle you carry 200m from your mercedes G waggon to a high seat, but puit a heavey scope in them, plus a moderator or a muzzle break and they will shoot loose every time.
Recknagel swing offs are the same,
the very best way to mount a scope to a rifle is a 1913 picatinny rail and a decent set of rings. use a torque wrench for removal replacement and you have no loss of zero.
Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Lincoln:
Erik, i posted a reply days ago, dunno why it didn't appear,.,
flanges on the bolt breaking of, ejectors jamming, extracters breaking, bennt carrier rails, magazine problems,
the blaser r93 is just not a rifle that wuill last long under heavey usage.

EAW swing of mounts have to many parts to come loose, they work fine for the rifle you carry 200m from your mercedes G waggon to a high seat, but puit a heavey scope in them, plus a moderator or a muzzle break and they will shoot loose every time.
Recknagel swing offs are the same,
the very best way to mount a scope to a rifle is a 1913 picatinny rail and a decent set of rings. use a torque wrench for removal replacement and you have no loss of zero.
Pete

Pete,

I have to respectfully disagree when it comes to your take on swingmounts.

I've used both EAW and ERA swingmounts for years, an have never had a single problem with them. And my hunting is not walking 200 meters to a highseat.

They have worked without fail both at home in Norway, and Africa. In rain, shine, snow and dust. I have for example a Ziess VM 2.5-10x50 on a 375 with a ERA swingmount that has had close to 800 rounds thru it with the scope on. This is a relativly heavy scope. It's on and off constantly, and has never lost zero.

I had simular setup on a 300wby with a muzzlebreak, and again had no problems.

Having years of experience with 3 EAW mounts, I'll second Erik.

While I think the repeatability of EAW is amazing to me it's a European solution for a problem that doesn't exhist.

Talley and Leupold make very repeatable detachable mounts for $100. Why should I pay $400 for mount that has more moving parts than a Swiss watch?

Erik, how many sets of EAW swing off mounts have you had experience with? 3, 4, 5?
same to you Andre ?
Ive fitted hundreds. and ive seen several to many repeatability problems with them.
You won't notice it on a .375 shooting 1.5"groups, but put them on a rifle that shoots 1/4MOA constantly and you will see that they do not return to zero as well as a picatinny rail and rings torqued in place. Not to mention the tendency to shoot loose on sharp recoiling rifles, with either muzzle breaks (and there are muzzle breaks and muzzle breaks) or moderators. There are to may small parts to the mounts, they are far to expensive and they aren't robust enough.
I won't use them on my own rifles and i davise against em on customers rifles, unfortunately, they are a must have for most folks here in Germany.
Give me a set of Badger ordnance rings and a picatinny rail any day.
Pete

I just wish someone would make a good looking non-detachable scope mount for the Blaser system for $100 and have it work.

I could have every Blaser barrel tapped for Talley bases and use Talley rings and save money over traditional Blaser mounts. But I shouldn't have to do that.

I like the Blaser mounts.
I have both the American and the European QD types. Both go back to zero 100%.
The rings and bases are already "square" they work great.
The only better scope mounting system is a Blaser base with a rail scope.

Pete Lincoln

We work on several(75 to 100) best quality rifles every year, When we are not using Blaser mounts, we exclusively use EAW mounts. We have mounted EAW mounts so many rifles and never, never had a complaint. The Blaser mounts are just a joy to work with on any Blaser product, they are expensive, but no fitting required!

Aleko

Aleko, just because you never had a complaint doesn't mean there was never a problem.
The EAW mounts are to expensive for what they are, they have to many small parts, they will shift zero if given a hard enough knock, they do not return to zero as well as a torque wrenched, clamp style rail and ring mount. For most of the hunters here in germany, an inch up, down, left or right is irrelevant.
but i'm telling you this, mount a set on a moderated 30-06, with a S&B 3-12x50 PMII on top, try firing 2000 rds a year through it and you will be re tightening the damn mounts several times.even if you use thread lock on the screws.
alternatively, mount the same scope on a similar rifle, in Badger ordnance rings with a badger ordnance base and torque the things down as reg'd, fire 2000 rds a year through the rifle, you will only have to re check zero when you re barrel the rifle about 3 times in nearly 10 years.
Thats my personal experience with 2 of my own Remington 700's.

The Blaser mounts work better than the EAW's, its just a shame that the R93 is a tinny pile of decently shooting junk.
I do quite like the K series and the BBF's though.
Pete

Pete, I am going to take you to task on this one. My customers are avid shooter, trust me, I would have been informed immediately.

Aleko

Hi Aleko, i'm not disputing the fact that many hunters are happy with thier EAW mounts. I fit them on request also, but I'm just saying that IMHO they are too expensive, have too many small parts, do not live up to a tacticle environment (believe me we put them through troop trails, the EAW fixed mounts stood up to it, the swing offs didn't) and i don't believe they are reliable enough for a competition environment.
I'm once bitten twice shy as far as the swing offs are concerned.
A moderated rifle using full power ammo will shake the mounts loose when you have a big heavey scope on there. An un moderated african caliber will not subject the scope and mounts to the same kind of abuse.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one mate.
I must admit to bieng hard on the Blaser R93, i hate the things, but they are the kind of rifle you either love or hate.
regards Pete

Pete, I just looked at your website, that's pretty cool. Did you choose Germany of England because of better gun laws or women or what?

I am living in Italy, and if you need any parts and are having a problem with US dealers let me know. As I have an American military address.

I am on both sides of the fence on Blasers. I love the versatility, hate the action, but love the accuracy too. Not as accurate as a custom built M700 but damn accurate for a factory gun.

If you have any Blaser parts you want to get rid of send me a PM.

Thanks,

Seth

Seth, i left the British Army in 96 and stayed on here,
better gun laws here, exept they are shit scared of silencers,
women,, well the German women are a hell of a lot more difficult, complicated and emancipated than a good English lass, but when in Rome eh!! i'm onto German Wife Nr 2, there won't be a number 3.
Blaser R93.
The rifle simply hasn't reached the culmination of its delevopement.
What i would like to do is combine the flanged locking bolt head with a more traditional action and bolt. i'd love to combine the mauser 66 and the R93.
You still serving?
only problems i have with US dealers is that they are lazy or scared of it as far as paperwork for export goes, and seem to be of the attitude that export isn't a priority.

I can safely say that i have no blaser parts, exept a box load of bakolite butt pads ive take of combination guns and replaced with pacmayers.
but if you need any bits, let me know.
Pete