Johan,

I know that Brenneke introduced the 7x64 40-50 years before Remington did the 280. It wasn't meant to be an insult to the German gunmaker.

I am not a 270 fan and I can see the difference between the two whatever slight it might be. I was just stating that the 7x64 isn't the 270's German counterpart it's the 280's.

I am sure there are way more 7x64's in use in the world than 280's. It's a "cult cartridge" in the USA.

My father has one in a Ruger M77. I don't know of more than 2 or 3 people that own them, and I know a lot of hunters.

We own two different 270's a Remington M700 LSS Mountain Rifle and a Steyr Mannlicher Luxus Full stock.

Kind of funny how people really cling to certain cartridges defending them like they are favorite mistresses or their daughters virginity.

I feel the same way about the 8mm Remington Magnum and the 30-06.

Kokdyer,

Both you & Johan are correct although I think you've misunderstand what Johan was saying out of context.

If you compare the two cases, the 7x64 Brenneke and the .280 Remington you'll notice the 7x64 (barring the millimeter differnces here and there) actually has more in common with the .280 Remington Ackley Improved. In 1917 Brenneke's concept was pretty progressive with fairly straight case walls, shorter neck and increased shoulder angle, than other typically desinged cateridges of the era. Net, the 7x64 appears pretty "modern" compared to the .280 Remington and has a little bit more internal case capacity.

As I understood Johan (and agree) he was referring to the 7x64 Brennke as the "European .270 Winchester" and he is correct; the 7x64 enjoys the same popularity, cult status and practical application in Europe as the .270 Winchester enjoys in the States therefore, many here in Europe refer to it as the European .270.

Cheers,

Gerry

Sir,

I agree with Pete E. that a heavier rifle than 6,5 or 7mm can be very useful in Europe. There is a big difference between being able to kill an animal (almost any caliber will) and being to reliably anchor an animal under less that perfect conditions. Roe deer, red deer, boar and moose aren't really 'hard' targets when shot from broadside just behind the shoulder as, except for boar, the bones aren't very tough and there isn't much meat beween hide and heart/lungs. If you are disciplined enough and lucky enough to only take such shots, a 6,5 caliber rifle will do the business. However, shooting driven boar is different. Shot angles aren't perfect, the field of fire isn't always clear, shot placement isn't always perfect. Sometimes you are called on to 'collaborate' on a wounded animal. Then, nice heavy, moderate velocity bullets, like the 9,3, offer a nice margin of power. They are also more reliable in creating an exit wound which makes tracking easier. 6,5 bullets will often not exit. Large boar, in winter coat, and big red deer are tough animals. They are also very expensive trophies. With a 9,3, you're well equipped for any opportunity.

MLH

8x68s will take care of everything in Europe and North America for that matter.
Then ad a 6,5x55 to the collection and you are good to go.

JMO

Cheers,

André

Why not a 7-08? I own a 7x57 and a 308 and they have identical ballistics. The difference between the 7-08 and a 308 are practally nil. capt david

From what I have seen 7mm-08 Remington isn't the most availble cartridge on the continent. I have only seen one in Europe, it was here in Spain and it was owned by a Gamekeeper's son. A Remington M7.

quote:

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Originally posted by kokdyer:
From what I have seen 7mm-08 Remington isn't the most availble cartridge on the continent. I have only seen one in Europe, it was here in Spain and it was owned by a Gamekeeper's son. A Remington M7.

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Yup, kind of hard to find ammo for, sadly.
- mike

Too bad! I consider it and it's older 'twin' brother the 7x57 just about perfect for game up to 500lbs. capt david

That's ok, different calibers are popular here that are not popular (or even heard of) in the states. 8x63, 8x68, 9.3x64, 9.3x70, 6.5x57, 7x65R, 7x75, 6.5x57R, 7x57R, 6x62 Freres, and about 10 more.

Some like the 9.3x70, 8x63, and 6x62 are similar to American wildcats, some like the 7x75 and all the R's are made to fit European break action rifles and combo guns.

Do you know what a 7,62x63 is? That's the good old 30-06 Springfield.

I might have remembered some of those caliber numbers incorrectly and if I did I appologize. I have most of the cartridges of the world commited to memory but sometimes I screw it up.