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Does anyone regularly use a lever action rifle for driven boar hunting? Though I try to hunt boar every year, I missed out this year and am getting withdrawal symptoms.... Ideally, I would like a Browning BAR with an aimpoint sight but big brother won't allow that in the UK. On the other hand, a 9.3 Krieghoff SBS would be nice but my bank account won't allow that... What do you think of a 45/70 or 444 marlin - would this fit the bill? It would be difficult to get the cops on board but is probably achievable... Please - no mention of short barelled Blasers (Brian). | ||
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Baikal does a double rifle in 45/70, might be perfect, costs aboout £59.99?  I saw one guy with a Marlin in 30/30 in the Cz Rep a few years ago. I would have thought Gerry has toted such a weapon at some point in his travels around the fatherland....  Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you.... | |||
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In Germany the 30/30 is not allowed to use an boars, same with the standard factory loads of the 45/70! Use a 9,3x74R in a good double like a Krieghoff or Heym or Chapuis - in my opinion the best outfit for driven boars in Europe! | |||
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I have (although never used in the field) a Marlin 1895 in 45/70. In spite of what German regulations may say, no pig would ever survive a hard cast bullet from a 45/70. It is hard to think of a much better caliber for pigs. I have not scoped my Marlin (ghost ring), and find a scoped rifle easier to shoot, so I always end up shooting one of my Blasers. Another option would be a Browning BLR in something like .358 Win. That would be BAD news for pigs. There is a lot to be said for lever actions on driven hunts. Very few other forms of rifles can match lever actions in terms of reloading speed and magazine capacity. Most Central European countries limit semi-autos to 2 shots total, and even the Blaser R93 has a max of 3 cartridges in the magazine (total of 4, including one in the chamber). So if the "test" involves getting 5 aimed shots away within the shortest time possible, lever actions score well. Sadly, lever actions are often somewhat wanting in terms of caliber versatility (BLR is an exception) and trigger quality. Neither is probably that important when shooting at running targets at short to medium range. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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But it is not so important to shoot fast three or more shots - the experiend hunters on the boarhunts in Europe often use doblerifles, but standard are boltrifles! | |||
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Yes, it is clear that the opportunities where you might sensibly fire 3-4-5 shots will be more limited than those where one or two shots may be possible. In that respect, there is nothing wrong with either a double or a bolt action. That said, it is probably more a question of tradition that lever actions are not seen more often on driven hunts. For sure, they would fill the ticket. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Boggy I have played with a 444 Marlin in Canada and all I can say is its a very uncomfortable caliber to shoot with. I don't think I am experience enough to contribute to a calibre discussion but can I take this chance to share this footage with some friends here. Some of you may have seen this before. It's one of the best footages I have come across and it really gives those who have not shot driven boar a flavour as to why we are so passionate about this kind of shooting. Here goes | |||
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Gabriel, Lithuania is still possible. 2-5 December Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened. Sir Winston Churchill | |||
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Yup - Winchester model 1895 fitted with a red dot sight. As you could see on the video, they come plenty quick and the hunt does not take place on open plains.... A scope should be low in magnification with a very wide field of view. The same goes for the red dot sight so the "tube" type are less suited than the Docter and the new Zeiss. A lever is certainly very quick to reload in case another shot is called for. A .444 Marlin would be good, indeed, as would the .45/70. The Marlin is also suited for the red dot sight so yes, go for it! - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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How would .348 winchester work, 220, or 250 grain bullet? | |||
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.35 remington? .307 winchester? I'm gonna shoot a deer with my .32 winchester model 94 some of these days, it's just such a fun gun to use! | |||
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Boghossian I have used a .444 marlin with a red dot-sight for the last 2 years as my pig gun in Croatia and love it fast and handy to point and shoot with plenty of knock down even on the larger Boar. I use 266gr hornady interlocks over 47grs of reloader 7.The .444 can also be down loaded to shoot on my clubs indoor range which helps as well (20 grs of 2400 with a 240 grain lead bullet )the .444 marlin also holds 5 rounds in the magazine +1 compared to the 45/70 which holds 4+1 in Marlin rifles. I also have a .308 Browning Blr 81 box mag underlever which is very fast handeling rifle as well. | |||
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I hunted boar in France this year, although I used a loaner gun in 8x57R, many of the beaters carried Winchester 94's in 30-30 Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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Nearly every factory loaded .45-70 have the 2000Joule at 100m level for legal hunting. Only the Rem .405grs SP not. With reloading you can get nearly 4000Joule muzzle energy within the 2200bar CIP level. With a round nose bullet, so you can have ~2500Joule at 100m. This discussions we have had here in Germany so many times.  Martin | |||
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It´s a good woods cartridge, with ~3000Joule at 100m, with handloaded ammo. A friend have a M71 for driven boar hunting. Martin | |||
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This is good input Martin, it also sets the record of the 45-70 straight in the context of the German regulations. Legal is always good... Apart from that, and apart from the fact that such rules have to be stated in some way or another, it would obviously be a bit silly if the 6.5x55 or 6.x57 (as good as these cartridges may be) would be legal for boar, but the 45-70 not. At woods distances - e.g. within 60-100 m or so - I have a hard time imagining many calibers that would leave a more lasting impression on a pig than the 45-70. Given that the German rules are stated in terms of minimum "energy", and we know that energy depends on the square of velocity, this tends to focus on velocity more than bullet mass. Bullet diameter also plays a big role - for pigs, big is beautiful... Rules or no rules, the 45-70 is a "pig slayer" par excellence!  - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Is it difficult, to make it plausibly, that you "need" a leveraction rifle for hunting? I wish you success with your project. Hmmm.... .45-70 or .444Marlin. I will say .45-70, but I´m handicapped with this round. I love it. With the .444Marlin, you have some little problems, not "really" many factory ammo to buy, and for reloading, you must use good bullets. Not the "standard" designs for the .44Magnum. The Hornady 265grs is a good choice or a Nosler Partition, just as well the Barnes bullets. And then, a few mean, the "best" round is the .450Marlin, but you get only two factory labos. It´s a "hammer" and I know some hunters, they swear about it. I have one of the first guide guns made for the .450Marlin, imported to Germany. I use it only for target shooting, especial for the running boar. But today, I would change it to a small bore lever, like a good .30-30 or a .25-20. Or better, to a shiloh sharps.  Martin | |||
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Guys...just my 2c - you know it is hard to be without presumptions after 2 decades of commence, however...attending mentioned act, one fails hard not to immagine 2 extreme profiles of the hunters that appear - oddly a weird similarity of arms belonging to the hunter's type apply: 1. Shoot to kill type 2. Spray and pray type 3. All in between... Ofcourse each to his own, however one gets tired of cleaning up the stage...believe me, the following shot does not cover the preceeding one...therefore stay true to your shooting and beliefs - squeezing the trigger applies Death or Suffer - so stay true - if in doubt I'd be glad to bring you up on hip/leg/gut.. shot pig - believe me you don't want to take credit for actions like that. So instead of investing in number/time shooting put your money on credibility - it only takes but one well aimed shot to kill...either you hunt or you are just joking - Gentlemen - make your pick! | |||
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Boggy, Just to give you a little encouragement...........As you may know from SD,I live in Cheshire, Many believe this county to be the most backward of any in the UK, as to knowledge / applications of in relation to firearms & suitability of in relation to "Land" or game, I have just finished the finer details with them & my 45 / 70 stainless guide gun (presently at proof) has been conditioned for Boar and Deer (excepting deer in Scotland, as there is a M V req), so not too much of a leap of faith wherever you may be???? | |||
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West Mercia seem happy enough to condition a .458 with expanding ammunition for boar in the UK, in addition to dangerous game overseas, so .45/70 or .444 shouldn't present a problem. My local FL Team seem to lose interest once the calibre issue is settled - I don't think they care much about the action type of the rifle, and wouldn't raise an eyebrow over a lever action rather than a bolt action, so long as it's legal. In my limited experience, all of those large calibres are a bit bruising to use and rifle technique comes into play a bit more - hold, standing position, leaning in etc. You certainly wouldn't want to carry out prolonged zeroing in a prone position, that's for sure, even less if you are buying factory ammunition in calibres like .458Lott, .444 or 9.3x74 - have you seen the price of the damned stuff  Having had a play with a Benelli .30-06 semi-auto rifle in Sweden, the repeater does seem like an excellent choice - shame it's not allowed. A large calibre, short barrelled lever-action rifle with an Aimpoint sight is a great alternative - I had a good look at and was very tempted by the Marlin 1898 and Browning BLR 'Piginator' rifles in .45/70 and .300WM that RifleCraft were building. http://gunmart.net/gun_review/piginator_45-70_custom/ A. | |||
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I had a BLR in .308w a while because i am left handed, shot a couple of mooses and used it on driven hunts to. I liked the handling and fast repeating. The things that made me selling it was a creepy trigger, bad practical preciccion(moa at range) loud to cock the hammer fast. It was not enough vertisile for my needs i now use a tikka t3 lh for most of my hunting including driven boar. Things i like are smooth action = fast repeating, fine trigger, detatch magasine(5+1 and 3+1) i have two i can change with a round in the chamber. | |||
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Since a semi-auto is a "problem" have you considered a pump rifle? Or better yet a drilling http://www.mathelon-armes.com/repertoire/mxt.html I have a Mathelon drilling in 9.3x74R, and it is one of my favorite rifles Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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I think you should get a BLR in 308, put a Parker-Hale 3-9x40 scope on it and get stuck into the does, better than say, oh I don't know, some .243 slapped together by a bunch of resentful communists during the hight of the missle crisis. 308 ammunition is cheap and avaliable, will knock a boar for six on any decent placement with a good heavy bullet and is easy to get licenced for deer at home. If you have an itch you've got to scratch it. | |||
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Thanks Ghubert - I think I will do that next Saturday. Let's use your car for a change. | |||
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Yes, a capital idea. Do lets. | |||
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Whatever you use that video was FANTASTIC! Some good shots made and it looked like "hulluva fun" the chef | |||
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Chef - this is not difficult to organise so bear this in mind and hopefully you'll get some action shots at pork when you're over here! | |||
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Boggy, "Action shots on pork" may have a different meaning to our transcontinental cousin. Chef, He means he'll take you boar shooting.  | |||
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I had a Belgian-made BLR from 1974 to about a year ago, had a Marlin 1895-.45-70 from 1995 until a year ago and still have a Browning 1886 SRC-.45-70 with XS "ghost and post" sights. I have tried various scopes and other "peep" sights on these and handloaded both hardcast and jacketed bullets to high velocities for them. I have also had several Win. 1894 variants, including a rare Mod. 64 in .30-30,a Win. MOd. 71 in .348, a P-64 Win. Mod 88 in .308 and a couple of Savage 99s, plus a half-dozen Marlins in .44M, .357M and .22lr. I have a couple of these left and also a Sako Finnwolf in .308 I bought in 1977, a lovely but heavy rifle. I have and have had well in excess of 100 other big game rifles, my own FN-FAL and divers Mini-14s and shot lots of other autoloading military rifles belonging to friends, over 50+ years. With this experience, I have to say that a good bolt action is as fast as any lever I have shot and I have been getting rid of my lever rifles and concentrating on my bolt guns. I can shoot faster, more accurately and trust my CRF P-64 Mod. 70s in .338WM., .300H&H and .375H&H far more than any lever rifle plus I have three 9.3x62 rifles, all CRF, a Brno ZG, an Oberndorf sporter and a custom on a FN action. Any of these, IMHO, is FAR superior for any heavy game in thick cover and we have thick brush in BC comparable to the densest tropical jungles. I would choose a good CRF 9.3x62 for the task outlined here and load my two current loads of the 286 Hornady and the 286 Nosler Pt. over 66-Ramshot Big Game. These go into the same sub-moa groups at 100M from my ancient Type B sporter...the old Germsns KNEW how to build a rifle! In a current rifle, I would get a CZ-550 FS in 9.3x62 and install a McMillan synthetic on it and perhaps have Battue sights also installed and perhaps a Zeiss Z-point.....good rifles if slicked up by a good smith and with the detachable mag. many like for stand hunting. Euro. stand hunting differs from most BC hunting, but, shooting heavy game in dense cover is what we do much of the time....and, the old 9.3 is far superior to any .45-70 load as it kicks much less and puts the game on the ground with no fuss and little muss. JMHO. | |||
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That actually made me laugh!! Porking is a verb here, but we don't have "action shots on pork" so all is well. cheers | |||
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Straight from urbandictionary: 1. porking The act of having vigorous sexual intercourse with someone. 2. Actively hunting for pigs in their natural habitat. For the avoidance of doubt - I am referring to definition 2. | |||
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Hi Gabriel, Now and then I use a Marlin 1895G, in .45/70, for "montaria" and with very good results. If only I didn´t have that Krieghoff 9,3x74R and the Marlin would see much more use! B.Martins  What every gun needs, apart from calibre, is a good shot and hunter behind it. - José Pardal | |||
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Nearly nobody in Europe uses a leveraction for boarhunting! If you want to do it - please do it! But look at the outfit of the persons, who are hunting in this time for 3 or 4 days the week for boars! I know no one of this hunters using a lever action and I know a lot of hunters! The fastest repeating rifle in use here are the Blaser R93 or R8 - and you can get them in modern smokeless calibers, not in old blackpowder cartridges! I don´t like the Blasers, but I never feeled to be too slow with Mauser or Brno for driven boars - although I prefer a double! | |||
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And for extra clarity, 2. is not intended as a prelude to 1., even five minutes before closing time at the Crown and Anchor. | |||
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I think you nailed it - it is 'I want' rather than 'I need'. I can live with that on my conscience! I will go check out a BLR in .308 next week. It may just follow me home. | |||
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.33WCF, .348WCF, .35WCF, .405WCF, .444Marlin or .450Marlin old blackpowder cartrigdes? Hmmmm.... interesting. The 9,3x62 was established in 1905, the most of this WCF rounds are from the same years, with nearly the same power. The .348WCF is from 1936, younger than the most German hunting rounds. The big Marlin rounds are hard hitters and not to compare with the old black powder rounds. All this rounds are making a good job, as good woods cartridges, for short range hunting. If you have the most huntings in forest, how wide are you shooting? 50m, 100m or 200m? Within the usual forest ranges, all this "old ones" can make a good job. Yes, it´s true, lever actions are very rare in Europe for hunting, but a few enthusiastic hunters using lever guns. With the same great success, as "normal" hunters. And don´t forget, the most older black powder rounds were loaded with smokless propelant in the beginning 1900. From .40-65 to .45-70 and 45-90 up to the .50-110. The last with nearly 4500 Joule muzzle energy. Martin | |||
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gabe i used a win 94 XTR in 375 WIN for a few years, what i liked about it: Short and fast handling solid caliber to put down most things found in europe why i sold it: EXPENSIVE ammo wrong gun to take out stalking, as the lever rattled etc noisy gun with a scope the gun feels very high and the fast shots at an angel was a bit of a bother. how about getting a old BPE double at the auctions for pretty much the same money and play with that, same speed when using it at practical hunting situations, usually more macho caliber choises and better resale value than the colonial steel works.or PM me and i will set you up with a 12 bore  best peter | |||
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Ok, but the 45/70 is an old blackpowder cartridge - and the other cartridges are - although constructed in the last few years - not of modern design! If you want, you can hunt with a muzzleloader, but... Look at the european boarhunt, in Germany, Poland, Hungary, CZ, Slovenia or whatever you want - nearly no professional hunter will use an leveraction with a 45/70, 450 Marlin or .444? Why? Oh yes, they all are stupid! They use boltactions or doubles and only a few semiautomatics! But they are all not very experienced hunters ! | |||
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I haven´t said, that all the non-lever action hunters are stupid! But why should a hunter not use a lever? I know hunters , they using .300RUM Blaser rifles at ranges below 100m at roebuck. Is this better? I have a friend, using a Marlin M1895 chambered for the .45-70 since nearly 40 years for hunting up to 100m. Why not? Why same hunters still using the old european rounds like the 9,3x72R or the 9,3x57? Yes, of course, thats not thr regular, but if you can handle it, why not? And not every hunter have the money, to buy a 6k€ double rifle for driven boar. And not every hunter like the Blaser rifles or the semi-autos. The prices for a R8 begins at 2800.-€ without scope and mounts. My opinion, it´s stupid to dictate other hunters what they have to use. But especial for Germans, regulations are very importend. Martin | |||
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If, I were to return to "Der Swartzwalde" in Baden, from where my forbears came to North America, beginning in the early 17thC. and, eventually to BC, some 140 years ago, I would enjoy hunting. I would probably use my Merkel drilling in 9.3x74R, with 286Nosler Pts. and Brenneke 2.75" slugs as these print side by side at 25M....that should whack any mobile porkchop in good old Germany or anywhere else! That said, what I REALLY would like is a W.Foerster sxs double in 9.3x74R with one of the Zeiss 2.75X scopes made in the mid-1960s, I used one of these scopes as a young man and it was the best heavy cover sight I have ever tried. Next week, I hunt deer on Vancouver Island, very thick cover and wary little bucks. I am taking my Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine in .30-06 with 180NPs at 2725 fps. mv and my beloved 1937 Type B in 9.3x62 and probably a P-64 Mod. 70 custom with a stainless barrel and Micky Edge stock if it pours rain, it is a .270Win. All tested, classic, CRF bolt rifles in older tested versatile cartridges with good bullets. Works for me. | |||
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