Gentlemen,
The wife and I are headed over to hunt with Mike McCrave for Scottish Hill Stag the first week of September. I would like to inquire about weather temps and conditions and do any of you have a list of essentials I need to bring with me on my first hunt in Europe? Thank you.

Bwanamrm,

Is this your first time to Scotland?

Basically given the summer we have been having here (VERY Wet) it is difficult to say what conditions will be like in September. One thing is for sure and that is that you will have water to deal with in the burns. A light weight pair of walking boots (waterproff) perhaps just upto calf length will make the walking comfortable.

I tend to find that not only is it uncomfortable to walk withone boot full of water the squelching drives me nuts. For that reason I always leave a spare pair of socks and a towel in the vehicle In case I need to change.

A pair of binoulars and/or a spotting scope is nice to have so that when the Ghillie is spying the hill you can also get involved and see if you can see the deer.

It's amazing how these guys spot stags on the hill. On our second day out we were driving along one of the roads when the ghillie stops turns around and parks up. Then he muttered something like "Aye och drey oot tut" and asks if I can see him. I couldn't se anything bar several hundred acres of heather until he pinted out a crown tip of an antler sticking above the plants. How he'd seen the stag while driving along I don't know. It took us an hour to stalk up on him and he was a nice 10-pointer. I passed the shoot to my mate who hadnever taken a deer before.

But I digress, Optics will make you feel more involved in the hunt and the shoulder harnesses make life easy when you are crawling about, (there's a bit of that to do).

I wouldn't worry too much about heavy weight clothing. I typically wear a wicking layer a shirt and then a breathable coat or a swannie if it's warm. Breatable makes things a lot more comfy.

Make sure you have a flask with a dram in it and perhaps a cigar for you both for when the stag is bagged.

Mossie reppelent will make life easier as there can be a lot of small midges in the heather if it is damp.

Take heaps of photos while on the hill as it is spectacular, so a light weight camera is always handy.

The final thing I would take (more for your wife) is a walking staff if she isn't carying a rifle. I find it can be a great aid when crossing burns and ditches etc, but that is just a personal preference.

What Rifle are you using?

Rgds,
FB

Thanks FB, yes it will be my first trip to Scotland. Are wellies required because of the moisture or are leather gore-tex boots ok with gaiters? Will definitely have mozzie spray and binos! As for the rifle, Mike is providing it to make travel easier for my wife and I.

bwana.....

FB's advice, as usual - very sage, speaks volumes of "Hill" expereince.

I would stay away from Wellington's as they offer no foot or ankle support and aside from dry are no good for walking the distances such stalking requires IMO. A good pair of lightweight GORE-TEX (cannot emphasize that enough) hunting boots, 9"-10" high will make life much easier and drier. Good leather preparation with Snow-Seal and a light polishing will make them 100% servicable for a week's outings.

I thought Gaiters would be perfect and they were not. Trouble with felt gaiters is they load themselves with dew and water and end up heavier than the heaviest pair of boots you could ever wear. Canvas impregnated & synthetic gaiters are completely useless, they russle against the heather and grass and this russling noise will ensure the only thing see are the south-bound ends of north-bound Red Deer - can be heard for unbelievable distances.

Weather can be anything from delightful warm, autum days to a driving squall. I use (as an example) a Cabelas MTM-50 suit (jacket & pants) breathable but 100% wind, waterproof and quiet. Like the Gaiter issue; silence is key, so stay away from the first generation Gore-Tex stuff that was not particularly quiet - the soft outer nappy material is essential.

A Buttpack or small Daypack for those eseentials, mosquito repellant, small flask, digital camera, etc. is good also.

If the weather is nice; I forego the use of water in the morning for my daily toilet and bathe in 100% DEET - head, neck, hands & arms; like FB said if those "!§$%&=?" midges are out - Ugh!

Those wonderful walking staffs can also be had in many variations (look for the one with the brass coupling so you can disassemble like a Pool Que and take back to Texas with you) and I also find one very useful for negotiating the hill; and when it's time to shoot can make a solid shooting support if required. If you have selected a real Gentleman's Outfitter you may even be offered one by the Ghillie for your use while there.

If the guide is glassing one area of the hill it can be well worth glassing another.

We were driving in a landrover up in the hills. We stopped to glass up a hill to the left. While that was happening I felt the call-of-nature and stepped around the other side of the vehicle to relieve myself. I am now looking right.
As I stood there, holding my unit I looked up and saw a group of stags about 75 yards away all looking at me.
"Guys" I stage whispered "this way guys"
"just a minute, we are glassing this hill"
"Now! Look this way now!"
....they turned around rather quickly...the stags saw the movement...the stags legged it.

All this time I am standing there like an idiot...litteraly holding my dick!

Bwanamrm,

The other thing that I like to have in a pocket is a micriofibbre cloth, (I don't carry the rifle sleeved) as if you end up crawling through the wet and mud, or if its dry and dusty you can easily clean the lenses before you set up for a shot.

I was hind stalking a few years back and dropped the bolt from my rifle the first morning out. The result was a bolt in 5 peices that i didn't know how to reassemble and a bent exractor claw. The guide gave me his gun and set me loose on the hill while he took my dad out. Upshot was that I got into a group of hinds and calfs and thought I had the chance for a couple of easy beast but I couldn't see anything through the scope and had nothing to clean it with!! I couldn't take a shot at an animal I couldn't see clearly so I got up and walked home.

The other thing worth having in a pocket is a small flannel (not white!!) as it can be hot work if the weather is warm so I like to be able to "mop my brow". My dad used to wear a headband a few years ago when mountain hunting but we had to stop making cr@p Bjorg jokes as he outshot all of us!! It was 20+ degrees in cyprus though.

Are you flying into London or into Scotland? If it is into London and you would like to bring a gun it is very easy and Rick at Gunrunner can arrange the details for you . If you booked the hunt through Mark, then he uses Rick himself so can tell you about the process. It's cheap and easy , and to be honest I don't know why so many people shy away from doing it when they go through the UK. I just though i'd mention it in case.

BTW, don't forget the tissue paper too... the heather is quite scratchy!!!


What UK hunter doesn't tell you is that there is no way the deer could see the rest of the stalking party but they could hear them laughing....

Rgds,
FB

Moss is very good compared to heather.
The stalker swears by it. LOL

I hunted with Mike last Sept. and it was one of the best hunts I have ever had. The food is excellent !!! Bring decent slacks and button up shirts for dinner. I assumed it would be a typical hunting camp affair and came tripping down in my " africa chic " dinner attire ( tee-shirt, shorts and slippers ) and was definately underdressed. The British take a different view of dinner.

TAKE GAITERS, trust me on this one. You cannot beleive how wet it gets. Mike and the Ghillies wear them every day. Mike can tell you which brand to buy. BUT BUY THEM !!!

It will be very windy and wet, gore-tex everything. I took a hat with a 4 inch brim, not quite a cowboy hat but it was waterproof. The gamestalker kinda gave me a funny look at first until he saw my neck staying dry, and as we lay looking directly into a 30 mph rain storm I could put my head down and the rain was out of my eyes and off my neck. We layed in that storm on our bellies for 2 hours waiting for the stags to stand up. We got so cold from laying in running water I had to time my shot between shiver spasms. When you get back to the estate all your wet gear goes into a drying room equipped with high dry heat so by the next day all your outer wear and boots are dry. Take rifle maintanience gear, as your rifle will be wet every day.

Between the wind, cold, terrain ( be in good shape ) and rain it was one of the most difficult hunts I have taken. And I wouldn't trade it for anything. I am going back.

The Scottish Highlands have to be one of the most beautiful places on earth. The locals are incrediably nice, and the hunting incrediably hard. It casts a spell not unlike Africa. I truely envy you going,...................JJ

quote:

Between the wind, cold, terrain ( be in good shape ) and rain it was one of the most difficult hunts I have taken. And I wouldn't trade it for anything. I am going back.

JJ:

A difficult hunt? I thought, from a physical standpoint, it was a piece of cake. I assume you have never been mountain hunting (sheep, etc.). I would say the only easier hunt is deer from a stand, a road hunt for antelope, or most African hunting.

Or did you mean the stags were difficult to spot?

But one thing you nailed: the scenery is specatacular. I liken it to Alaska. NZ is prettier, but Scotland has a charm all of its own.

Thanks for all of your feed back... I've traveled Africa, the western U.S. and Canada but haven't done Europe so this is good feedback. Now the Goretex raingear is packed, along with Goretex boots and gaiters. Brimmed hat - check. Clothing? Wool outerwear or the newest insulated synthetics? Don't want to be all camoed out if I stand out like a sore thumb... traditional wear looks cool but I don't want to hunt in a tie. Thoughts?

AZWriter, I don't know how your gamestalker worked, but mine would let us ride an Argo 6x6 up the first mountain. We would spot a herd and walk down the first mtn.,up the next, down, back up, down, back up until we got on the herd or decided we did not want an animal in the herd. We walked our asses off all day, up and down. At the end of the day we rode home. We spent a total time of 2-3 hours the whole day riding. The rest was spent humping the mountains. Who did you hunt with ?.

As far as camo, Mike wore a camo overcoat when we went after Red Deer. Wool anything will work just fine. The gamestalkers will respect you more for staying dry than looking the part. My game stalker wore a mix of camo and wool, so whatever works..................JJ

Hi AZWriter

I can make the hunting in Scotland as difficult as you like almost to the point of physically impossible. What is dangerous in Scotland is the rain if you are not prepared and the sudden weather changes, not the cold as such. Hypothermia kills every year on those Scottish hills without fail. We just rescued a man from 7ft of floodwater and he was hypothermic and now in hospital and thats in the hight of summer.

Mark

AZWriter, first off I want to apoligize if I sound smartass, thats not my intent.

My gamestalker wouldn't ride the Argo at all ! He would walk ahead looking for tracks. He outwalked us up and down every mountain with us riding and he walking. I never seen him break a sweat. He would see a herd 3-4 miles away across some of the most rugged terrain I have ever tried to walk on and think nothing of taking off just to have a look. He was without a doubt the most in-shape person I have ever had the pleasure of trying to keep up with. I asked him how he could out walk an Argo uphill, he would just smile and say " its me job ". He spends 365 days a year chasing the game up and down the mountains counting and culling for the estate owner. One damn tough man.

I have hunted in Alaska, trekked in Canada and the terrain in Scotland is some of the most difficult to walk on I have ever seen. Its not 16,000 foot peaks, its the actual heather that makes it difficult. I cannot explain it very well. Maybe some of the other more experienced hunters here can. Its just unlike anything I have walked on before..................JJ

JJ and Mark H:

I have hunted Scotland. Ms AZwriter and I walked all day (but then she climbed Kilmanjaro with me once in Africa, too). I have also hunted New Zealand without the benefit of a helicopter. I would rate NZ hunting much harder, Mongolia harder, Alaska for sheep is certainly harder (colder, steeper mountains) and every elk hunt has been harder.

I will admit I got wet in Scotland, but the thought of returning to that heated room with the hot bath kept me going, a stark contrast to one particular DIY caribou hunt in Alaska where it rained constantly for a week, except when it snowed. Everything in the tent was wet, even our sleeping bags. Good thing I had a great synthethic bag; sleeping was the only respite from being wet and cold.

My point in posting is this: physical challenges are not the same, and I wouldn't want someone to not hunt Scotland because they thought it was tough. Quite the contrary, I think it is quite easy. But then again, I didn't think Mongolia was that tough and some guy on the Asia site claimed it was the toughest thing he had ever done, and he was a professional athlete. Don't know if he was a professional golfer or an ironman competitor. There is a obviously a huge difference.

Again, I would encourage anyone to go to Scotland. It is a great hunt.

Solid advice.

We'll disagree on the Gaiters but I'm an ex-Military Officer who knows how to blouse his boots.

The most demanding part of the day is walking on/in/about Heather.....sorta like attempting to walk on/in/about a soaking wet sponge on basketball for 6 hours with intermitent spells (every 1-100 meters) of sinking up to your hips into running water. Never stalked Alaska or the Tundra but I can imagine there is a common denominator somewhere. Hopefully you've short legs - that means you still sink but don't get your feet too awfully wet.

The second most demading part of the day will be the 1-400 meter low-crawl in wet Heather, mud and running water. Best part of that is standing at the bar in the Pub with the Ghillie and standing him a few whiskies in sopping wet clothes - yes, you'll get warm & dry sooner or later......

Any combination of wool & synthetics is acceptable - in a any color combination. Cammo; in any pattern is; unlike in other countries of Continental Europe is COMPLETLY acceptable.

A little known Scottish stalking fact. When the ghillie is shooting alone we dont bother with the low-crawl, we just walk up slowly and shoot it. The purpose of the slow-crawl is just to get the client wet, cold and covered in scratches.
This enhances the flavour of the whiskey in the bar.

Mark

Our ghillie spotted a group of 200 deer in the glen above some foretry with one shootable stag in there. The day was over and we were going home, so he said we had time for a stalk if we carried the stag down rather than having to get the hill machine and go up in the dark. (I think it had more to do with him being in a hurrry to get to the pub on the friday night for a date!!)

As it was my other friends first stag I suggested we go with it. I have a picture somewhere of us carrying a 13stone stag off the hill and all smiling!! Obviously the ghillie was taking the picture!!!

I'll see if I can dig it up from somewhere.

Rgds,
F

quote:

Originally posted by MarkH:
A little known Scottish stalking fact. When the ghillie is shooting alone we dont bother with the low-crawl, we just walk up slowly and shoot it. The purpose of the slow-crawl is just to get the client wet, cold and covered in scratches.
This enhances the flavour of the whiskey in the bar.

Mark

Mark , just spat my Iron Bru all over the keyboard when I read this!!! Very good

quote:

A little known Scottish stalking fact. When the ghillie is shooting alone we dont bother with the low-crawl, we just walk up slowly and shoot it. The purpose of the slow-crawl is just to get the client wet, cold and covered in scratches.

Err, uhhh... thanks for the "heads up"!

I visited Scotland twice, once in 1987, for two weeks of hiking. Mostly around the whiskey stills we had gorgeous weather, and the land wasn't too wet. This was in early September.

Then 10 years or so later we hunted on a peninsula west of Glasgow, and got some serious rain. Rain, rain, rain, and more rain. My brand new full leather boots lasted three days before the wet got through, and they never dried out until we got home. I'd prefer something sturdier than wellies though.

Frans

I am counting on the Biblical magnitude rainfalls currenly afflicting Britain to tap out the clouds and leave me with sunny skies and solid ground.

I will be wearing flip flops, a Captain Morgan T-shirt and Bermuda shorts.

Like David slew Goliath, I will slay the giant (stags) with stones from my sling.

If that doesn't work, I will count on my 10" Gore Tex lined, rubber soled Canadian tundra boots, my wool trousers, my waxed cotton, Aussie DryZaBone jacket, and my George Gibbs Ltd., Farquharson patent, falling block rifle in caliber .275 Flanged (a/k/a, 7x57R).

I can't wait, but then again, M is my middle initial and Misery is my middle name!

Man I can always count on you for a laugh! Do like your choice of weapons... classy!

I have been fortunate to stalk stags in Scotland several times, and look forward to being in the Highlands again in October. If you enjoy the experience just a fraction as much as I have, you will think it is wonderful. It is a unique hunting experience.

I would not say it is absolutely the toughest physical experience, but I have never had a day that I would describe as easy. I have never ridden up the hills. Walking on heather is hard to describe. It drags at you on every step, and you can almost never see or know where your foot is going to end up being planted. The ground under the heather is pretty uneven. The first couple of years that I went, I did not use a walking stick. Once I tried one, I have never taken to the hills again without a stick.

From what I have seen, the gamekeepers work to match the difficulty of the attemped stalk to their perception of the clients physical ability. If you appear fit and ready to go, they will likely take you on a rougher part of the estate than otherwise.

I remember being out with a head keeper one day who talked about the university students they hire to work on the estates in the summer. He said, "The first day, they think they are tired. The second day, they think they are seriously tired. The third day, they think they are dead!"

You will be among some of the nicest and most polite people in the world. The gamekeepers really have their egos caught up in getting you into good position for a shot. Have a great time and please post a report when you return.

Best,

Al