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One of Us |
Got a request for you folks that are "experts" on vehicles. I am moving to a new job in a months time, involves moving house too, a remote farm house in Derbyshire, currently own a VW Golf estate - great car- but thinking I might be in need of a 4x4, young family don't want wife to be stranded in a difficult situation, I get a 4x4 as part of the job. Budget of upto £7K, so long as I can get around £6K for Golf. What would you go for? Been looking at Honda CRV or Nissan XTrail, but also been told Subaru Forester is better in poor road conditions, some of you must have these, opinions needed please, or will my Golf be ok in frosty/snowy conditions (love the economics of the golf!) Cheers! | ||
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Nightwalker, honda and the xtrail are classed as soft roaders, ok for the school run and the occasional trip across the football field. Subaru forrester is ok but the fuel consumption is not good (x trail 35-40). the most expensive to run per mile is the disco, probably the best off road but worst build. Toyota landcruiser/nissan partol/mitsubishi shogun are the best bets, but they can be on the large side, medium sized 4x4 would be the Vitara or the Rav4.The Toyota Rav4 wins that one hands down especially the D-4D. You should also be able to pickup a very good Isuzu/Chevrolet 4 door pick up for 7K, bomb proof engines and well built and about 30 mpg.. I have a Landcruiser there are only 2 drawbacks, fuel economy and its too good to throw carcasses in the back.. best of luck regards griff | |||
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When I got to Spain I brought a Grand Cherokee, but it was too good to throw dead pigs into the back of and got shitty mileage. So I ended up with a Jeep Wrangler, and it was great until I got to Italy and drove the roads alot. I hunted with Gerry in Germany last year and he had a Mercedez Benz big station wagon. It was nice, but not a hunting car either. Works real well on getting from point A to point B on the autobahn. But a hunting car it isn't. Now I have a Dodge sedan that get's about 30 miles to the gallon, and I wish that I had a pickup. Griff is so right. A double cab pick up truck in Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Chevrolet, guise is about perfect. I'll be moving again in 2008. If I don't have to drive too far to get to work, it'll be some sort of small double cab 4x4 Nissan, Toyota, or Mitsubish truck. Blood and guts go in the back, family goes in the front. Easiest decision in the world. | |||
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| Moderator |
A guy I know has an Xtrail for a company car, and he has had lots of problems with it..It seems there was a known turbo issue on certain models. having owned a Subaru, I would seriously think about the Forester and maybe look at getting it converted to LPG... Of the others, the Grand Vitra seems to be well liked as long as you are not doing an serious off roading.. Regards, Pete | |||
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The Forester is pretty good but very sore on petrol. No diesel version. They will go anywhere a full size 4x4 will go. An Isuzu crew cab pick-up is probably the way to go. I would avoid the soft-roaders such as the CRV and X-Trail. Another option which might be in your price range is a 5-6 year old Nissan Terrano II. Not the prettiest car out there, but damn effective. Don't be slagging off the Disco, I just bought a new Disco 3. It can burn diesel big style. Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you.... | |||
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A non-hunting friend of mine just bought an eight month old X-trail. Blew the turbo with 6 weeks. Under warranty so no big deal. The day the warranty expires, it will be traded in. Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you.... | |||
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As 4x4 goes they are popular in Iceland. I have a Mitsubishi Pajero on 33" tires. They have a good driving capabilities both on gravel roads and on the asphalt. Land crusier both the big one (LC 100) and the barbie version (LC 90/120) are also very good. Then there are the Nissan Patrol, it used to be good but the engine is not as good as it was (I am talking diesel). This are the big 3 from Japan (very popular here). Next there are Suzuki gran vitara (7) and from Korea the Kia Sorento (the older men like my dad and father in law like theese). Then there are the USA made, very much to choose from, from pick ups to luxury SUV´s. Also you have Range Rover and Land Rover Discover (good to drive) plus the defender (I cant fit into it, the steering weel is so close to the door, also the only car to be sold new with dents in the body, but classic looks). But to my mind if I had all the money it would be the big Land crusier 100, then Pajero and in third place the Barbie crusier. Here is a pic of one from my SAR units great car.  Sauer and Zeiss, perfect match. Sherpi | |||
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Range Rover. Use mine for everything and had no problems,if it doesn`t do what I want or go where I want, i get rid of it. It`s surprising how many dead deer/wild boar you can get in the back of it too ! | |||
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Two years ago I changed from a Honda CRV to a Mitsubishi L200 bouble cab. The Honda was a good car on black top, and also on snowy / slippery roads, but has nothing to do in the bush. The L200 goes everywhere in style with 4WD high and low, as well as eletronic lock on the rear diff. Backside is a bit slow acc on highways and stiff suspension, but again, this is primarely a workmans car, and meet my needs as a hunter perfectly. I also saw quite a few of these cars in England hunting fallow with IanF , Artemis. and Fallow Buck in February. Arild Iversen. | |||
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Sherpi, I drove a Mits Pajero all over Vietnam. It looked nothing like that fancy wagon, but it was hell for tough. Especially on those vietnam oxcart roads in the mountains. One of the saddest moments in my life, was when the US Navy decided to cease operations in Iceland. It's really too bad, I would have given my left testicle to 3 years in your country. What an amazing place. | |||
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Some great suggestions coming my way, really helpful! I am not a "car" person, hate changing them! Keep your experiences coming! | |||
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I would look at the Forester personally. It depends on the mileage you are going to do. If you are using it for every day use you will definitely find it painful in terms of fuel consumption. Pete's suggestion of a conversion is not a bad idea but you have the cost of conversion initially, the tank takes up alot of space (making it impractical for putting animals in the back and you also don't get great MPG which mitigates going there in the first place. I have looked at LPG conversions but there are some considerable draw backs. This won't help you in the immediate term but the Forester is coming out in a diesel engine which is Subaru's own design i.e. a boxer diesel. I reckon this will be a hit in the UK. | |||
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Are you going to be a keeper/ghillie/hunting guide? If so then a double cab truck is the way to go! | |||
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I am on my 3rd Forester, that confirms my choice BUT all have been relatively thirsty, and they are now getting too posh and consequently expensive to use as a utility vehicle. Interesting thread as I am looking for an alternative to use offroad and then only locally in SE England, the opinions and experience are good reading. Any thoughts on the Vitara ? ATB T260 | |||
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The vitara is more of the same. They get better gas mileage, but I really have a hard time throwing dead animals in the back of any SUV. | |||
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Forester excellent - it would go anywhere my shogun could provided you kept going. The lack of diff lock hurts it a bit when you need to restart. Fuel consumption was improved on the ones with the new style back. Mine did 27 but I drove it very hard indeed. Sold at 144,000 with head gasket problem (to dealer  ) They are cheap second hand but get it very very hot and check to see if blows in the radiator. The forester isn't prone to this problem but if it does happen it's £1,500 or so  Fantastic car.Do not LPG it!!! They run quite hot as it is. The conversion makes them run even hotter and has caused a number to crack their cylinder blocks.New style (up until 3 months ago) Mitsubishi Shogun is fantastic. Very good off road, very good lock (the disco is so bad we can't turn a horse box in our yard with one) and driven gently will return astonishing mpg (37mpg at a steady 60) towes a house, very comfortable etc etc. Now the car for you - the new Skoda Octavia scout! A subaru outback with 50mpg. I test drove a standard Octavia 4wd estate 3 months ago but could not live with the slightly reduced ground clearance. Apart from that it was very impressive indeed - 48mpg at 80! The Scout is about £17,000 I won't be getting one because you can travel a long way on the cost to change from a deer managers Subaru Outback to one of these. MPG is only one cost of running a car. Subaru's have incredible brand loyalty - after 2 I find that 27mpg is OK when I get a leather, cruise, sunroofs, heated seats etc that can swallow 9roe for the dealer, my gear, my dog, go where I need to go, handle like a rally car, go like stink (which it does!) and yet look relatively smart for work. | |||
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After years of driving LandRovers, which always got me to where I wanted to go, well except for a time or two, I was forced into a change. I had undergone surgery and the Landy needed to go for comfort reasons. Of all the things to get I got a Grand Cherokee. It seemed about as far away from a LandRover as you could get, and I was afraid of bending it, but I wanted it. I now have a heater that really works, comfy seats and well in excess of 500 miles per tank of fuel, which is better than 30 mpg After 18 months of getting used to it, I now take it everywhere that I took my Defender. I have just come back in now having been well and truly off road with it. Not evryones cup of tea but I like it, it is being lifted 2 inches next week. John | |||
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On this side of the pond, Toyotas get good reports. Tough and fairly good fuel economy. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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| Moderator |
Jon, Subaru have been threatening to do that for years! I have got to the stage where i will only believe it when it hits the show rooms! Not sure why they they are sticking with the flat four design as it seems a bit fuel thirsty, unless its for size/space considerations?? Regards, Pete | |||
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1894, I suspect the Skoda Octavia Scout is the vehicle many of us have been waiting for...Some folks still snigger at the Skoda name, but knowing people who have owned a couple of Octavia's and been more than pleased with them, I would buy one in a heart beat! Regards, Pete | |||
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Nightwalker, One more thought..how about an imported Toyota Surf? Its based on the HiLUx pick-up, but obviously you get something more suited to family use and something that looks decent for work.. Regards, Pete | |||
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I have not heard of the Octavia Scout. I will do a search. It sounds very interesting. Pete I am good friends with a guy who's family owns 2 Subaru dealerships and he tells me the diesel is a defo later this year. It is still hearsay so lets wait and see. 1894 makes a good point in terms as what is acceptable professionally. I would love a pickup of some description but it would not be my customers choice of vehicle. I had a test drive in the Forester Turbo - super quick but no low ratio box. I have an Audi Allroad at present which I bought in 2003 and it has done 112k miles and has served me proud. The off road capability is zero but for off roud tracks is fine. Again it falls into the category of too nice to throw carcasses into the back of etc. My next Company car maybe the SWB Shogun as my employers are very flexible and I feel this would fit the bill. If I didn't have that luxury the Forester would be my prefered choice (normally aspirated as It is perfectly designed for the job). It will be an interesting dilema when my car is up for renewal. | |||
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You must have a very low opinion of the Mercedes! I do remember the spare wheel well in your mercedes having its own blood bank..  regards griff | |||
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Should really clarify my needs a bit more, the road upto my new house is hard standing but prone to pot holes, I can keep these to a minimum by throwing lose stone into these, gradient is fairly steep with a sharp turn at the top. My feelings at the moment are for a Honda CRV, then the Subaru, purely on the reliability and fuel economy. My wife will be using the car - it will not have deer thrown into etc. Only cocncern is the Honda doesn't have low ratio etc if it happened to be slippy conditions? I hate buying/researching cars!!! | |||
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I have a petrol Jeep Grand Cherokee and I've also had two diesel Discos and a petrol Rangie in the past. The Discos were good but not nice to drive on the road and not scintilating performance - you had to think about overtaking a mile or two in advance. I think the more recent ones are better and if they put the new V8 diesel in them they will be great but way over your budget for a while. The Rangie was an old 1994 LSE 4.2 Vogue that was LPG'd and this was very good. I was getting petrol power at diesel prices and the vehicle was old enough not to worry about rough treatment - if I had a new Rangie there is no way on Earth that I would risk getting a scratch on it. £7k would get you one about 8 - 10 years old. The Grand Cherokee is very good, I'd have another, it's got all the bits that you pay extra for as standard. It's a very quick car on the road and pretty good off road. For a big 4 litre petrol engine the MPG is not ridiculous at 23 but I really should get it LPG'd. You can get them from £2k, £7k would get you a fairly recent one and add £2k for LPG but that will pay back quickly if you do a few miles - if you don't it's not worth bothering to change. One thing to check with the very good smaller 4x4s is ground clearance but if this is not a worry there are some good ones around and Subaru, Honda, Nissan and Toyota are all good. Just one point on the X - Trail is that yesterday a guy with a 2 week old model, with which he is generally delighted, drove into a log at quite low speed and completely stove in the very lightweight plastic panel on the front without realising it. | |||
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Yes Griff I suppose I better tell Nightwalker NOT to get an E Class with sports suspension. Its no good off road. It was amazing how many emergency warning lights you could get to light up when you did take it off road though and yes I believe when I handed it back forensics where all over it there was so much blood in the back. They thought it was a professional hit mans mobile.  | |||
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Nightwalker, Not being funny, but would your wife know what to do with a low ratio box? If she did put it in low ratio 4WD, would she remember to switch back to 2wd once she got onto tarmac? If somebody is not used to these things it can be a problem..the automatic traction control used on Disco's ect might be a better approach.. Another motor I have noticed not mentioned is the Freelander..the early ones had reliability problems but I believe the TDi's are pretty good now and are very ecconomical..I think the later ones also have the traction control... Regards, Pete | |||
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Good point Pete! (no ofence taken!!) Automatic traction control etc is making me slide even further towards the Honda CRV - picked up a 4x4 magazine yesterday, they had an article about used Hondas, it was a glowing report and had the Honda as a better buy than a Freelander, now to find one for a test drive! | |||
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Interested to hear why the allroad isn't good off road. The SWB shogun is a fantastic car but is a bit short on space. It drives a tiny bit nicer but fuel economy is identical so the LWB offers a lot more practicality. Don't discount the Outback - manuals do about 29mpg now and offer considerably more space. | |||
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1894 Yes when I got the Allroad I was very enthsiastic about getting it into an off road situation and testing it out. Basically we had it in various tricky situations which made evaluation of its off road capability easy. Conclusion was rubbish. Basically no low ratio and the gear box (even though auto) was obviously too high for even the slightest bit of off roading. This meant that we nearly took out a gate at high speed on my friends dairy farm as we just ran out of runway. Also when I got it on the ramps you could see that there was no protection underneath whatsoever. Tyres also did not help. It did what I needed it to do though really and was fine at getting up tracks etc with having the ability to raise the suspension and after buying a carcass tray I have had a 300lb red stag in the back with all the seats down and no blood in the back. Yes I would love the Forester Turbo if it had a low ratio box and yes you can easily get distracted. Even though fuel consumption isn't a concern for me as such I find it a complete pain having to stop every five minutes to fill up. I feel the fuel tanks on these cars do not have the required capacity. The Outback has also been a consideration and although is quick with the bigger engine in I somehow got seduced by the warp speed of the Turbo Forester - I should know better. I do like the new shoguns and just fancy the SWB. What does it drive like on road. Is it noisy and is it susceptable to more of a bumpy ride due to SWB? | |||
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NW I would suggest that you should save your money and keep your Golf if you're happy with it. How bad can the roads get in Derbyshire? I would think that any normal car can manage a few potholes and rough tracks. At the moment Jon2 and I are experimenting with his new Passat Off Road MkI (a normal Passat diesel) and it's soaking up forest tracks with no problem at all. I think as long as you avoid lowered suspension you won't run into any difficulties. If you do fancy some form of medium sized four track I would think you are on course with the CRV or X Trail. However, I think it's likely that I'll be putting in a bid at the back end of this year for a Vitara. I haven't driven one yet but have been in the showroom - they seem half decent looking and well put together but most importantly are good value for money. You get permanent four wheel drive with a low ratio box and lockable diff for not a terrific amount of cash - certainly less than the competition and they don't offer the low ratio box as far as I'm aware. The reader reviews on the What car? site barely have a bad thing to say about them. Regards, Tim | |||
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Save your money on the car and fill in the pot holes! on the road, an economic front wheel drive is just the ticket. All this advertising hype of 4x4 gas guzzlers for on road "peace of mind" is laughable in a modern globally warmed UK. ps We have a 0.75 mile unmetalled, pot holed track to our home and a Ford Focus estate copes happily 365 days /year; Wife has tractors,a quad bike a l200 pick up even a horse available but its the diesel estate car 365 days a year. | |||
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trans, It's tricky doing the school run on a horse though.... Actually I'm with you. If carcas movement isn't an issue, (ie; fallow/Sika/Reds) then one of the Audi/focus or similar estate cars will give everything needed and half the fuel bill and the road tax. They will also fit the bill if Roe and munties are on the menu as they can easily be transported in carcas trays. If 4x4 has to be then I like my Shogun Sport which have come down massively in price recently....  Just make sure you et the power upgraded one though as it is a bit slow otherwise.Rgds, FB | |||
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I might be abit bias here as I own a Land Rover (and work part time as a off road driving instructor for them) but you could get a nice low'ish mailage Freelander TD4 (BMW engine) for that money, they are great to drive so much better off road than any of there compation! and do 40mpg! or an county spec Defender which may be abit more "interesting" to drive, but the Kids will love!! and remember as LandRovers are british made they are cheap to maintain and run and insure! try pricing basic repair/service work for Jap and Yank 4x4's and you will see why over 70% of all Land Rovers every made are still on the road!  | |||
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The chief forester in Germany was usung a Passat to get round the woods no problem. In most cases if you need to use 4x4 properly your probably somewhere you should'nt be. I have a Disco TD5 now but used to use a Freelander TD4 and small trailer to remove fallow deer. Small car, excellent off road handling and fuel economy and the muck could be hosed out of the trailer. Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | |||
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I've hunted with the following vehicles: 1950 Chev Convertible,1958 DKW, 1961 6 cyl Chevy Biscayne,1966 VW MicroBus,1964 Chevy 3/4 ton P/U, 1962 VW Baja Bug,1976 Toyota FJ 40 4x4 Land Cruiser,1983 Jeep Scrambler 4x4 that has been modified which I still own and hunt with in the western USA. | |||
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I beg to differ. I did use a normal estate for a while but I couldn't now - the extra time involved in carcass recovery would be a big problem not to mention the effect it would have on my back. I got stuck twice by parking on a verge with one wheel on the tarmac - once one wheel spins you're stuck..... A normal car, trailer and quad would be excellent if it weren't for the theft aspect. | |||
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308mate, any examples of a lowish mileage Freelander TD4 in my price range?? | |||
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If you dont want a proper 4x4 just buy the skoda octavia 4x4 the disel version. I have a one besides the Pajero and it is a great car. I had a subaru outback before and the skoda is much better. The skoda comes standard with aircondition, trip computer, cruse control, heat in the front seats and spent 5 liter/100 km. I have driven it across the gravel roads (allmost a road) that lies across the central Iceland in the summer the road does not get any worse than that. The Skoda is also very good in icy conditions because it as a anti weel slippage (dont know what it is called). The Skoda I have now has more road to floor gap than the older older Skoda I used to have. It is no wonder that the Skoda is a very high selling car here. D99 sorry to here that you did not get the chance to stay here. For people that dont mind bad weather and love open unpopulated spaces Iceland has a lot to offer. Nightwalker I think that you have had a lot of good advises. Honda CRV is a good one but maybe short on space. Have you looked at the KIA Sorento it is very popular here. Sauer and Zeiss, perfect match. Sherpi | |||
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