THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM EUROPEAN HUNTING FORUMS

Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Pete E
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
ideal red deer cartridge?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
what cartridge do you consider to be the ideal(please include bullet weight) for red deer?
i know size differs from place to place but lets settle for british and scandinavian (->120kg or so)

thank you.
 
Posts: 930 | Location: Norway | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
Stalking/high seat :
my minimum is set at 7x64 (175 gn), .30-06 (180 gn) level. .300 Win Mag (165-180 gn), 8x68S (180-200) are about ideal.

Drive hunting :
9,3x74R, 9,3x62 (285 gn)


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Latham
posted Hide Post
.270Win/130gn Nosler partition, 7mm WSM/162gn Hornady ballistic tip. clap
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Chester UK, Home city of the Green collars. | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Ingvar J. Kristjansson
posted Hide Post
I totally agree with Andre... 7x64 (175 gr.) as minimum and everything over the size of 9.3x62 (250 gr.) is an overkill.
 
Posts: 510 | Location: Iceland | Registered: 15 May 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
Steve, a .270 130 grainer may be OK for English and Scottish reds but don't forget our continental stags do reach over 200 kg (440 lbs.), dressed weight, and even more if you go East.


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Hello!

Here in Norway I would say the ideal cartridge would be the 6,5*55 with a 140-156 gr bullet, .270 with 140-150 gr., any of the 7mm's and finally the 30-06 with the 165 gr bullet.
My personal favourite is the .280 Remington with a medium hard 150 gr bullet(Oryx, Woodleigh, Grand Slam etc). Here I got punch and trajectory, with low recoil and a 5 shot magasine. Wink

M
 
Posts: 413 | Location: Norway | Registered: 14 May 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
7x64 loaded with a good quality 160 gr. bullet is the minimum, IMO.
 
Posts: 1459 | Location: north-west Italy | Registered: 16 April 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Here we go again!! whatever you have in your hands when the deer walks out! killpc
 
Posts: 290 | Location: N.Ireland | Registered: 12 October 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Yeah, when everyone knows it"s the .243 with a 100 gr bullet!
 
Posts: 669 | Location: Alberta Canada | Registered: 18 January 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of londonhunter
posted Hide Post
Please excuse me if I am off topic

I am actually in Slovenia now typing this from the hotel computer.

Last night at the bar amongst over 40 shooters here, a man came up to me age about 60+

Tapped me on the shoudler and said jaeger ?

He actually does not speak a word of english. obvious somebody have alerted him that I am slightlz intereted in hunting. It was 10pm amd he gesticulated that I should followed him home. we walked out of the hotel down the road to his house some 30 metres awaz.

His front door was open BTW and inside I cannot believe it. an alladins cave of trophies. After 10 minutes of sign language he produce a certificate and I think I have just been shown the largest red deer trophz in slovenia 242.50 CIC points.

Now I am not reallz into these CIC measuring suzstem can anzbodz here tell me this the record ?

Anzwaz we went back to the bar and drink till the bar clocingč. I now have his number and his so called range is 5 km down the road where he shot this beast

AH coming back to the thread his caliber ? 6.5 x 55 310 metres

I did not have a camera but will trz and do so since i am here for another week for competition

BW this slovenia kezboard does not the normla charactor hence all the z in the wrong place

at the end as like all hunter he understand onlz one word weidmansheill ..............
 
Posts: 1661 | Location: London | Registered: 14 February 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Latham
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
Steve, a .270 130 grainer may be OK for English and Scottish reds but don't forget our continental stags do reach over 200 kg (440 lbs.), dressed weight, and even more if you go East.
At the risk of sounding disrespectful of your larger beasts, I think no heart, no life, I think that the worlds best up to the edge of dangerous game will fall to any good shot with 130gn from a.270 wave
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Chester UK, Home city of the Green collars. | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 308mate:
Here we go again!! whatever you have in your hands when the deer walks out! killpc


You are right; this will be my last post on similar hackneyed/boring topics.
 
Posts: 1459 | Location: north-west Italy | Registered: 16 April 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
Steve,
Under ideal conditions, you could kill a stag, even an elephant - it has been done- with a .22 RF ! Problem, if you don't plug it in the eye with the .22, you may track for hours, hoping to find him...
The question is not if a given caliber can kill but how fast (tracking/recovery, etc.) and how reliably it kills (penetration from all angles, distance, etc.).


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steffen:
what cartridge do you consider to be the ideal(please include bullet weight) for red deer?
i know size differs from place to place but lets settle for british and scandinavian (->120kg or so)

thank you.


Now here's a specific question for once. I've shot UK reds (Scottish hill and West country woodland) with 243 100gr partition/105gr speer (3) 6.5x55 and 125gr partition (2) 7x57 and 140gr accubond (1) 7mm08 and 140gr sierra PH (5)

Largest was just over 100kg (dressed no head or legs) and the longest range 275yds (6.5x55). Killing power seemed identical - 11 isn't a huge sample.

I am now most happy with my 7mm08 because it is quiet (ASE moderator), slightly muzzle heavy (steadies well when buck fever is present as it certainly is when looking at a big stag!) has a great trigger and I shoot it well.

When I have saved for my Hungarian 10kg plus trophy (that's 10kg for the antlers!) I will take my 30-06 or 8x60S.
 
Posts: 2032 | Registered: 05 January 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Latham
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
Steve,
Under ideal conditions, you could kill a stag, even an elephant - it has been done- with a .22 RF ! Problem, if you don't plug it in the eye with the .22, you may track for hours, hoping to find him...
The question is not if a given caliber can kill but how fast (tracking/recovery, etc.) and how reliably it kills (penetration from all angles, distance, etc.).
Ahh!, now then , if your wanting to roll something over from any angle, 162gns 7mm WSM will certainly be a do-all BOOM
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Chester UK, Home city of the Green collars. | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
Moderator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
Steve, a .270 130 grainer may be OK for English and Scottish reds but don't forget our continental stags do reach over 200 kg (440 lbs.), dressed weight, and even more if you go East.


Andre,

If you look west instead of east, you'll find many an elk has been taken in the US with the .270win, and those run quite a bit more than 200kg dressed!

Regards,

Peter
 
Posts: 5684 | Location: North Wales UK | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
It seems I need to repeat myself. About any caliber can and does kill, no doubt. Now, does that imply that some calibers are not better suited to certain kinds of game than others ? Let's bet that if we run a like poll among U.S. experienced elk hunters, the .270 Win is not likely to come out as being best of the show...


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Ghubert
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wildboar:
quote:
Originally posted by 308mate:
Here we go again!! whatever you have in your hands when the deer walks out! killpc


You are right; this will be my last post on similar hackneyed topics.



Oh come on lads, don't be such miseries! Big Grin

The good old "what calibre" discussion is such a great and essentially harmless controversy to have with friends that I for one think it's the life-blood of internet forums.

It's certainly a nice yearly tradition to have, a bit like the traditional post-Christmas lunch family argument.

Hell, I went fishing with Boggy and FB yesterday and, as exhausted after all full day at sea as we were,still managed to get a row about the .270 Win in before we got home!! Big Grin

Therefore don't worry and have at them chaps!


Purely as an aside, and as a neutral who has neither seen shot or myself shot a red, I have to say that the 30 cal heavy bullet faction are winning for me so far.

For the next couple of weeks I will be trawling guntrader for an 8x68S. Even though i've already got a 30.06.... sofa Big Grin


All the best,

Amir
 
Posts: 11731 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of peterdk
posted Hide Post
a 9,3 or a .33 caliber seems to be the best answer to me, you can still get a flat enough tractory and with enough punch and drive to be sure to to get a in and out from any angel.

best

peter
 
Posts: 1336 | Location: denmark | Registered: 01 September 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Jon2
posted Hide Post
I am with Andre on this.

It is the fact that lesser bullets leave little margin for error. This maybe the case for an animal that is say quartered onto or away from etc.

If shooting through the shoulder I would rather have a big heavy bullet than not.

Also to anchor a beast on the edge of forestry at last light I would rather have a big heavier bullet. This maybe due to the fact that I would rather shoot through the shoulder and want to put the animal down as quickly as possible.

Just my opinion. In fact the reds I have shot have been easy to kill but that does not subtract from what I have said above.
 
Posts: 596 | Location: Cheshire, England | Registered: 06 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I've only shot 1 red myself which is with the 6.5 x 55 and it never went anywhere and left plenty of blood should I have needed to track it, i think it dressed out at over 100kg. But at the same time I've also seen Eland taken with a 270 at approximately 200 yards, it also didn't go anywhere. I've also shot Zebra with an 06, yes it ran for 100 yards or so with plenty of trail to follow, but I never felt undergunned. That dressed out at over 400kg So isn't it a case of accurate shot placement?
 
Posts: 101 | Location: Home Counties | Registered: 06 March 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
My choice for Red Stag

.300 Win.Mag 10,7g Doppelkern thumb

Seloushunter


Nec Timor Nec Temeritas
 
Posts: 2298 | Registered: 29 May 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Not to upset you Mr. Londonhunter with you late night invitations to someone's house...but have you ever seen the film "Hostel"?

Some rather odd friends of Enfieldspares have and told him about it. I think that was set in Zlovakia not Zlovenia, but...ooh, err, Mrs..

sofa

Was his business card "Elite Hunting" by any chance?
 
Posts: 6824 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 18 November 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of DJM
posted Hide Post
THE Red deer cartridge for me is the .25-06.

115 Grains of Ballistic Tip Leaving the muzzle at around 3300fps has spoilt many a red deers day Big Grin


Deer Management Training, Mentoring & DSC 2 Witnessing

Please PM or deermanagementservices@gmail.com for details

Dama International: The Fallow Deer Project


 
Posts: 585 | Location: Lincolnshire, England | Registered: 12 June 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Fallow Buck
posted Hide Post
Threads like this make me chuckle. How can you select a calibre for a beast depending on what shot it will present? You either need to be psychic or carry the entire contents of your gun caqbinaetr up onot the forest or stand with you.

I make my decision fairly easily where such things are concerned. If I'm heading to ground that involves walking hills or some such, then I take a rifle that is easy to carry.

I'f I'm shootiing stuff that may be a bit rangey then I take a gunu that I know I can shoot out to the desired range.

If I'm shooting large animals or may encounter large animals while hunting small stuff I take a .308

Luckily my 308 ticks all the above boxes and so it goes with me most places for such stuff.

Recently after some guidance on technique from Mr IanF I used his method of shooting seated off of sticks at some Zebra that were about 300m accross a valley. The stripey ones never did stop to give me a chance but tracking them in the scope I was a ssteady as I could be, and confident of the shot.

The point being that I'm more interested in the make up of the gun I'm holding than its calibre.

As for Amirs comments, Don't think your stirring went unnoticed... We didn't have a row over he 270, I just refused to listen to anyone elses POV!!!

Wink

FB
 
Posts: 4096 | Location: London | Registered: 03 April 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Ghubert
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fallow Buck:

We didn't have a row over he 270, I just refused to listen to anyone elses POV!!!

Wink

FB


The prosecution rests M'lud.

Big Grin
 
Posts: 11731 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
.270 with 150 NPs seemed to work OK on this fella:



I do agree with Kiri, the ergonomics of the rifle (fit/reliability/function) are more important than the caliber (within reason). Anything between .260-.300 for a stalking rifle and up to 9.3 for a driven rifle should ruin a stag's day IF you do your part...and I wouldn't stay home from a red stag hunt if I only had a .243 either.

Cheers

Gabriel
 
Posts: 2360 | Location: London | Registered: 31 May 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Claret_Dabbler
posted Hide Post
I have tried to resist this one, but I agree with Boggy. The Red Stag that cannot be killed with a 270win has yet to be born.

Until they start genetically engineering kevlar into their hides...

A 270win may not be ideal on a driven hunt, and it certainly isn't suitable if you intend to shoot them up the arse, but for anything sensible, I can see no problem.

To be sensible for a moment, for any animal, shot under stalking conditions, up to say 250Kg live weight? Any rifle between 6.5mm and 300cal, with a big game bullet will do the job nicely.


Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you....
 
Posts: 1484 | Location: Northern Ireland | Registered: 19 February 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Ghubert
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DJM:
THE Red deer cartridge for me is the .25-06.

115 Grains of Ballistic Tip Leaving the muzzle at around 3300fps has spoilt many a red deers day Big Grin


Here's the trouble maker!

I've found him!

Take him to the stocks!

Mad

Regards,

GH

PS. did you get your velocity figure above from quickload by any chance? Wink Big Grin Big Grin
 
Posts: 11731 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of londonhunter
posted Hide Post
mistakes
 
Posts: 1661 | Location: London | Registered: 14 February 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of londonhunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by londonhunter:
Hi guzs

Still on this dam hotel computer wherebz everzthing is spelt wrong since the kezboard is slovenian.

Anzwaz this chap who invited us to his house turned out to be reallz quite a hunter. he has since driven us to his hunting ground 5 km awaz from the hotel and wow what a sight. He has manz beasts since he placed digital cameras all around his hunting ground.

I now have his contact details for these slovenian Red beasts. According to him he has 04 beasts with at least 200 plus C.I.C. points. However mz command of Slovenian is not good enough to negotiate a good deal zet.

BTW he is not worried or stuck up like as to what caliber we shoot !

Off topic again

Good for british shooting

Other than taking the top 10 places of the F Classs world championship recentlz in Bislez

Mz friend Aaron Heading has taken silver in Class A at the Fiocchi Gold Cartridge Competiton last weekend with me taking the Bonze in Class B

We are now taking a few dazs break before the World Championship this coming weekend.

Once we are back in the UK we will post photos and more info for those who are interested

Most important through meeting national shooters from over 142 countries these 02 weeks we have made numerous connections for hunting possibilities around the world............
 
Posts: 1661 | Location: London | Registered: 14 February 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Latham
posted Hide Post
Funny how this .270 is such a showstarter for forums, & for quite a good few beasties a show stopper! Cool
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Chester UK, Home city of the Green collars. | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Ghubert
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Latham:
Funny how this .270 is such a showstarter for forums, & for quite a good few beasties a show stopper! Cool


Yes, at home in moments of introspection, held in the hand, it looks too small.

Use it enough with good effect however and one realises that it is big enough.

Wait, are we talking about calibres here or....... shocker
 
Posts: 11731 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Latham
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ghubert:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Latham:
Funny how this .270 is such a showstarter for forums, & for quite a good few beasties a show stopper! Cool


Yes, at home in moments of introspection, held in the hand, it looks too small.Did you used to be indecisive , or are you just not sure/ jumping

Use it enough with good effect however and one realises that it is big enough.

Wait, are we talking about calibres here or....... shocker
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Chester UK, Home city of the Green collars. | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I think it has already been said, but the one I have in hand,

undergunned is just a state of mind and a modest 308 Win will slay all deer on this earth,

that being said I have bigger things to bring for jollies and wild boar.

Best regards Chris
 
Posts: 978 | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 10,3x60r
posted Hide Post
I use the 416 rem mag with controlled expansion bullets checked, because the law doesn't allow me to go under the 10,2 mm.
But I can recommend you for superior bucks to the 120 kg a good 30-06 with bullets softpoint of 180 grs.


Member in Shooting Game "Tiro distretto Moesa" www.tirodicaccia.com and webmaster from www.scgroven.jimdo.com Smiler webmaster Hunting website www.mesolcina-caccia.com and fly fishing website www.mesolcinapam.jimdo.com on FB find Al Venza.
 
Posts: 339 | Location: Switzerland, Lostallo GR | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
i prefer the 30-06 with 180 grains
seems to hav a bit more uummmppphhh than the .308 with the same powder + heads
failing that .375 with 235 soft nose
not much will resist that Wink
 
Posts: 238 | Location: coventry, England | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I used the 7 mm-08, 30/06, .300 Weatherby and a .375 Holland. The 7 mm killed them just well when you put the bullet into the right place.

As a universal round I would prefer the 30/06 with a 150 grain Partition.

Our Austrian neighbours kill many red stag with the .243 Win, the 6 mm Remington and the different 6.5 mm rounds. They just shoot well and always smile a little about the Teutonic "magnumitis"...
 
Posts: 8211 | Location: Germany | Registered: 22 August 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
I'f I'm shootiing stuff that may be a bit rangey then I take a gunu that I know I can shoot out to the desired range.

Wink

FB


I'm with Kiri on this one, and will always employ a Gnu (note correct speeling) of a size appropriate to the job.

Them Wildebeast are pure murder on a Red deer! Wink

Rgds Ian Smiler


Just taking my rifle for a walk!........
 
Posts: 1308 | Location: Devon, UK | Registered: 21 August 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Steve Latham
posted Hide Post
How much powder will I need to launch my Gnu at the recommended muzzle energy? dancing
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Chester UK, Home city of the Green collars. | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia