With the Italian hunting season fast approaching and the the incredible annual death toll they clock up each year. Last years tally was 33 dead and 87 wounded. Including the death of Giuseppe Orlando heir to the Della Gherardesca family shot in the back by a friend whilst hunting on the families Castagneto Carducci estate. The 2008-9 season managed to accounted for 42 dead and 85 wounded.The wounded figure is only a fraction of the whole as many woundings don't get reported.

I was wondering if there had been any signs of improved safety rules or increased demand for compulsory hunter training.

Sweden has abut one dead or wounded a year we have about 300000 hunters. Last year a hunter shot his daughter in her foot, roedeer hunting in the backyard.

I'm sure there is many a father that would happily shot their teenage daughters at sometime or other, and not in the foot by mistake.

That is absolutely staggerring! How could that kind of carnage happen? I find the Canadians/Americans a little wreckless compared to back in the UK, but 33 dead? It's just unbelievable that it can happen, or be acceptable.

Its got nothing to do with hunter safety just dont go hunting if you have upset your Godfather

First of all, I don’t know and I don’t care for Giuseppe Orlando and Della Gherardesca family. After that, I must admit that these are impressive numbers and the reasons are several IMO :

1 Until recently, hunting permits were accorded generously, with very little concern about safety rules.

2 The vast majority of the italian hunters are aged (average age is about 65) and got their permit 20-30 or more years ago (see point nr. 1). Furthermore, age always cause reduction in hearing and sight.

3 The land is often steep and bushy, thus increases the risk of fall and accidental discharges; heavy bushes greatly reduce the visibility.

4 Hunters are over 750.000; due to the high density of the population, 200 per square Km. (over 9 times more than Sweden) hunting areas are sometimes crowded with hunters, walkers, chestnut and mushroom pickers dangerously mixed. Here, for instance, there are about 4.8 hunters per square Km.

5 Many hunt wild boar in driven hunts, with the issues indicated above.

The situation will certainly improve, since hunters are each year less; minus 6% during the last 6 years and this trend will get worse in the future.

There are 1,366,800 shotguns held on 574,946 shotgun certificates in Great Britain. There is also 138,728 Firearm Certificates on issue with the average cert holder possessing 2.4 firearms.

I believe the UK has suffered 2 fatal hunting related shooting accidents in the last 10 years. I don't suspect that the population numbers and land mass figures are too dissimilar between the UK and Italiarno.

It makes the Italian numbers look like carnage. Obviously basic saftey issues are ruotinely ignored by just about every one. Just look at the driving in Turin if you don't believe me.

Many of the guns I shoot with on shoots are in their twilight years. None have ever been unsafe regardless of their loss of hearing or failing eyesight.They would be the first to hang up their guns if they thought that they posed any danger to their fellow hunters. Observance of good safety practices and consideration for your fellow hunters makes all the difference between going home with a brace of birds or going home dead.

Basic safety considerations dictate that if the footing is in anyway unsound that weapons are rendered safe until ground conditions improve. i.e you unload the pigging things! Another founding safety principle is you don't shoot into an area where you can not see. Especially one where you vision is blocked by vegetation.

quote:

The situation will certainly improve, since hunters are each year less; minus 6% during the last 6 years and this trend will get worse in the future.

Numbers certainly shall get less if you keep shooting one another dead at the rate you are. Add into that sum the number of the old hands that will pass on during the year.

Anyone know whether Gucci or Giorgio Armani make a bullet proof vest?

I do not want to generalize, but, from my experience, unfortunately, I can say that italian hunters are the most careless and undisciplined hunters.

Gintrap, IMO you are the nasty character that has been banned several times in the past under different nicknames, like W5, victorT, tophand etc. I must agree with you (painful situation) and others, that the number of hunting accidents here is unacceptable, and I've indicated some of the causes; for you and others, I can highly recommend to avoid Italy if you don't like us or if you feel it's an unsafe/unpleasant place.

Ciao Chinghalie.

I visit Grossetto on a regular basis to hunt and I have never had any problems with safety.
We will be there in Sept, we are going to see Ennio Morricone in Verona and then down to Roselle/Grossetto for the Chinghalie.
Great people, Great food!!

regards
griff

Hi Griff! Tuscany is a great place indeed. Anyway, I would suggest you to wear one of the world famous Gucci bulletproof vest next time you go there

That is more than they lost in WWII

That's a STUPID post

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
First of all, I don’t know and I don’t care for Giuseppe Orlando and Della Gherardesca family. After that, I must admit that these are impressive numbers and the reasons are several IMO :

1 Until recently, hunting permits were accorded generously, with very little concern about safety rules.

2 The vast majority of the italian hunters are aged (average age is about 65) and got their permit 20-30 or more years ago (see point nr. 1). Furthermore, age always cause reduction in hearing and sight.

3 The land is often steep and bushy, thus increases the risk of fall and accidental discharges; heavy bushes greatly reduce the visibility.

4 Hunters are over 750.000; due to the high density of the population, 200 per square Km. (over 9 times more than Sweden) hunting areas are sometimes crowded with hunters, walkers, chestnut and mushroom pickers dangerously mixed. Here, for instance, there are about 4.8 hunters per square Km.

5 Many hunt wild boar in driven hunts, with the issues indicated above.

The situation will certainly improve, since hunters are each year less; minus 6% during the last 6 years and this trend will get worse in the future.

I think you're forgetting the Italian temperament, Worked with one for a while. That was bad enough, but I'd never hunt with the guy.

I think I will stop posting here. This topic is a magnet for all sort of stupid remarks.

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
Gintrap, IMO you are the nasty character that has been banned several times in the past under different nicknames, like W5, victorT, tophand etc. I must agree with you (painful situation) and others, that the number of hunting accidents here is unacceptable, and I've indicated some of the causes; for you and others, I can highly recommend to avoid Italy if you don't like us or if you feel it's an unsafe/unpleasant place.

Thankyou for you opinion.

For the record I quite like Italy and its people. We had a holiday home in Umbria for a number of years.

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
Ciao Chinghalie.

I visit Grossetto on a regular basis to hunt and I have never had any problems with safety.
We will be there in Sept, we are going to see Ennio Morricone in Verona and then down to Roselle/Grossetto for the Chinghalie.
Great people, Great food!!

regards
griff

Neil

I think you'll find its "Cinghiale" not "Chinghalie"

There's nothing like a bit of name dropping, is there? So no point in getting you to raise a point at the Sept BASC council meeting.

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
This topic is a magnet for all sort of stupid remarks.

What an observation
If I may just point out the obvious. It was you who opened the batting on the name calling.

Without underextimating the problem, it is however very important to consider and understand that if the statistics are taken in anti hunting sites, they considered hunting accident any thing that happen to a hunter, even if not deadly. So they take in consideration also coronaries, bones fractures, car crash during the travels to or from the hunting areas and anything else, also a cut during a hunting day while you are preparing bred and salami, if the hunter get to the hospital needing some stitch.

For sure there are two region that are mainly involved in hunting accidents, they are Tuscany and Sardinia. Both do not yet obliged the Wild boar hunters to use the high visibilty jacket, and both prohibit rifles. More over, normally, walkers, chestnut and mushroom pickers,that as wildboar says are dangerously mixed to the hunters, wear camo or dresses with dark colours. Only last year, in the hunting area where I usually go, the mayor has imposed the high visibility jacket also to all the people that want to go in the woods.

Having said this, I agree with Wildboar, avoid Italy if you don't like us or if you feel it's an unsafe/unpleasant place.

Hunting anywhere in the world is a priviledge not a right.

I have been priviledged to have been invited to hunt in Italy on a number of occasions and there are no issues at all.

My best shooting / hunting friends are Italian and they respect their game and safety very much.

Steven and wildboar - I concur with both your remarks.

Saeed shouild be back from Munich by now.

I think a friendly PM to him is warranted

In most of the United States hunting is a right!

WELL,32 DEAD IS A BIT BIG NUMBER,IN ITALY IF U DONT LIKE SOMEBODY OR WISH HIM TO DISAPEAR,U JUST INVATE HIM FOR HUNTING AND SIMPLY GET RID OF HIM

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
In most of the United States hunting is a right!

And that is one of the guiding principals and basic differences between us and the rest of the world.

I think this topic goes in the wrong direction.
Not hunt in a beautiful country like Italy because it has a larger number of hunting accidents than average is a crap.
Do you know how many deadly car accidents occur annually in the safest country in the world?
What should we do?
To travel on foot?

Gintrap:

The bureaucracy, practical exams and costs involved in obtaining a firearm license in Italy is mind boggling - what qualifies a citizen in the USA to purchase and own one firearm or more? - Just a Social Security Card!

Maybe that is the reason why there are more firearm related deaths in the USA than anywhere else in the world - so much for firearm safety!

Having lived and worked in Italy twice, my impression is the Italians are not necessarily the most attentative, careful people, but they are among the most friendly and welcoming. The dreaded "health & safety" does not dominate heavy civil - structural engineering like in the UK, yet they still manage to construct things without huge loss of life. They would not be able to achieve this if they were reckless and ignorant.

Looking at the dented cars, one can shrug at the annual accident and fatality rates on the road. Drive in Italy and you wonder why more are not actually killed. The answer is most Italians are, paradoxically, good drivers with fast reflexes. That partly explains the number of racing car and motor bike champions coming from Italy.

Things are not as bad as foreigners or, especially, some Italians like to tell people. If you start normalizing the data, taking into account the landscape, weather, state of some of the non major roads, population density etc, Italy is not that bad in terms of accidents or other negative social events.

I wish, in some respects, England was closer to Italy.

Ummmmm since when is hunting a "right" in the US??? You've the right to bear arms that's a long ways from the right to hunt....please correct me if I'm wrong.

Since day one. Even before that in colonial times, while in Europe nobility was preaccupied with persecution of villagers trying to poach a few rabbits to feed their starving familys.

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:The bureaucracy, practical exams and costs involved in obtaining a firearm license in Italy is mind boggling - what qualifies a citizen in the USA to purchase and own one firearm or more? - Just a Social Security Card!
Maybe that is the reason why there are more firearm related deaths in the USA than anywhere else in the world - so much for firearm safety!

With the amount of mind boggling bureaucracy and involved costs you would think that they would be more careful and respectful of their fellow hunters.You don't end up shooting 30+ hunters a year, year on year by being safety conscientious and respectful.

Trying to compare the US firearm death rate ant the Italian hunter death tolls is like trying to compare American cheddar and Pecorino. They both might be call cheese but only one is actually worth eating.

quote:

Originally posted by Dina George:
Not hunt in a beautiful country like Italy because it has a larger number of hunting accidents than average is a crap.

Tomo

Try telling that to the 75 dead hunters killed over the last 2 seasons. I think you might have a hard time convincing them its crap.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Ummmmm since when is hunting a "right" in the US??? You've the right to bear arms that's a long ways from the right to hunt....please correct me if I'm wrong.

No several states, have right to hunt laws. Most of them are since 1999.

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:
Gintrap:

The bureaucracy, practical exams and costs involved in obtaining a firearm license in Italy is mind boggling - what qualifies a citizen in the USA to purchase and own one firearm or more? - Just a Social Security Card!

Maybe that is the reason why there are more firearm related deaths in the USA than anywhere else in the world - so much for firearm safety!

'Never been asked for my Social Security Card when buying a weapon.

There is plenty of imperical evidence here in the states that proves the more guns owned legally in a given area, the less crime there is.

The "firearms related deaths" number is largely cowardly teenage gangbangers.

Feel free to come over and teach MS13 some firearm safety. Do brush up on your Spanish first though.
---
I enjoyed seeing hunters and their dogs while driving in Tuscany. I would have loved to have joined them. 'Seemed to be heaped in tradition and camaraderie. One hound by the road appeared to be lost and completely worn out. I had to convince my wife that bringing it home would be impossible.

Kiboko,

The number of gun-related deaths in the US each year also includes all of the drug dealers and illegals shootings. If you take out the deliberate murders, the number drops nearly in half.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by vgmhunor:
Since day one. Even before that in colonial times, while in Europe nobility was preaccupied with persecution of villagers trying to poach a few rabbits to feed their starving familys.

history is really not your strong point, is it ?

quote:

Originally posted by Gintrap:

quote:

Originally posted by Dina George:
Not hunt in a beautiful country like Italy because it has a larger number of hunting accidents than average is a crap.

Tomo

Try telling that to the 75 dead hunters killed over the last 2 seasons. I think you might have a hard time convincing them its crap.

so gin trap, i find it heartwarming that you are so conserned about the unfortunat few that find their demise on the trails of diana in a forgin country.
i does pussel me a bit as to why you are so adement about it though, could you enlightning me on this please ?

best

peter

P.S you quoted dina and call him tomo, has the gordons kicked in allready, so that you are mistaken dina for artemis1.

everything in life worth doing posesses a certain risk factor, i am spending quite a bit of time in the milan area, and it looks like a really good place to hunt, i just have not made the connections yet but it will come eventually, and i am sure that i wont need a flack jacket for this.

stop ragging on other hunters countrys you proberly dont know enough about them in the first place.

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
so gin trap, i find it heartwarming that you are so conserned about the unfortunat few that find their demise on the trails of diana in a forgin country.
i does pussel me a bit as to why you are so adement about it though, could you enlightning me on this please ?

best

peter

P.S you quoted dina and call him tomo, has the gordons kicked in allready, so that you are mistaken dina for artemis1.

Pete

I don't call 75 a few. But then I take a different view of correct and safe gun handling than you. Whos diana when shes at home and does she have a sister?

What would you like enlightenment on? My heart warming concern or my adherence that correct and safe gun handling would reduce the death toll.

THanks for pointing out my mistake regarding calling Dina Tomo. It was the early hours of the morning when I typed that post.

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
everything in life worth doing posesses a certain risk factor, i am spending quite a bit of time in the milan area, and it looks like a really good place to hunt, i just have not made the connections yet but it will come eventually, and i am sure that i wont need a flack jacket for this.

stop ragging on other hunters countrys you proberly dont know enough about them in the first place.

best

peter

What is there a need to know? 75 dead in 2 years over 100 wounded, year on year figures fairly consent. Along with a diminished hunter pool. Which means they are shooting dead and wounding a higher percentage each year.

Always best to check the facts before sallying forth in the defence of those your hoping to get an invite from an invite.

quote:

Originally posted by Gintrap:

What is there a need to know? 75 dead in 2 years over 100 wounded, year on year figures fairly consent. Along with a diminished hunter pool. Which means they are shooting dead and wounding a higher percentage each year.

Always best to check the facts before sallying forth in the defence of those your hoping to get an invite from an invite.

oh ginny

If i only could live in your simple world, sadly i think it would take so much away from me, if i had to drink so much everyday to make it, so i will refrain.

i think you allready had a perfectly good answer further up this sad tread instigated by you, that the numbers that you quote were amassed by a anti group that could include traffic accidents etc to and from the hunt, but in your eternal wisdom you desided to ignore that, just like the goverment warning about drinking to much everyday.

you did not check the facts but went on another binge in the hopes that your post count will be higher this time before you are banned again.

how is north england treating you these days, are the sheep to wet because of the rains or is something else bothering you, i am a bit pusseled as to why you keep coming back as it were quite clear in the past that your attitude is unwanted here, and your dislike towards griff and a few of our other british members is shining through in your posts.

so why is it that you keep coming back ?

peter

oh by the way, my dance card regarding hunting is quite full, so dont you worry about me

Petey

There.s nothing simple about 75 dead in a 2 year hunting season. As for you suggestion that the figures were complied by anti hunting lobby I beg to differ they are the official figures released by the italian authorities. Like I said earlier always best to get the facts right before sallying forth hoping to bum an invite from some contact or other.

As with all things in life moderation is always the best way, that goes for daily alcohol consumption too. Drunken despots usually end up in an early grave. Has a striking similarity to unfortunate Italian hunters wouldn't you say.

Making assumptions about who I am and whom and what I dislike only make me think your daily diet of hay needs increasing to keep pace with the growing size of your equine sphincter.