The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting European Big Game Hunting Gun Laws in EnglandGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Gun Laws in England | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
I seem to remember that a 375 H&H was about as big as you justify for you local shooting but you could own bigger if it was restricted to range use. I also seem to remember that if for range use you were only allowed to use either soft points or FMJs, but I can't remember which. In terms of the 375 H&H, would you also be OK with similar but less well know calibres such as 375 Wby, 375 Remington Ultra or 340 Wby or wildcats such as 358 STA. Thanks for your help. Mike | ||
|
| one of us |
Nothing actually written in law regarding your suggestion. The local police licensing authority will judge each application on its merits. Thus, getting authorization usually translates into how much thought you put into justifying your 'need' for such a calibre. I feel that generally, the need to practice before encountering DG is good enough reason to get authorization for a large calibre 'in country'. As for type of ammunition usable - thats easily sorted - how can you zero and practice with a different brand of ammunition to that you intend using in the field? Some ranges may have energy restrictions that rule out usage of major calibres - but that would be a purely local situation. Rgds Ian | |||
|
| Moderator |
Mike, The only problem with ammo (a part from range restrictions noted by Ian)is if you a purly a target/range shooter in which case you should not be allowed to buy "expanding" ammo. However if your ticket has any form of hunting on it that would not be a problem. As to calibers, there is no upper limit set for deer stalking in the UK, but as you suggest once you get to .375H&H you would struggle giving the Police "good reason". I talked to my local authority regarding getting a .375H&H for deer stalking and use in africa and they were quite happy about it... Unforetunately there is a lot of "grey areas" in our law and its is often viewed differently by different police forces accross the country often depending on the whims of a particular Chief Constable or his Licencing Dept, Regards, Pete | |||
|
| One of Us |
Pete, That is interesting with non expanding bullets not be allowed for a range only licence. In Australia the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (SSAA) does not allow FMJ ammo to be used on their ranges. I don't thhink it has ever been policed but they are the rules. My belief is that in Australia we may end up with a justification for calibre being required. At the moment it is simply centrefire. I also worry about the bullet proof vests which ahve obviously worked extremely well in Iraq given that you would often see in the news "22 Americans wounded and one killed". I think that stuff will only stop 7.62 X 39 and 308 at best. In other words I worry about ownership of calibres that would go through the body armour. As a side note some years ago I had the opportunity to shoot at the bullet proof glass that was being used in some banks. There were two grades, a cheaper one which was about 3/4" thick with three layers and an expensive grade whuch was about 1.25" thick and I think five layers. The cheap stuff stopped a 223 soft point but not a 308 soft point. The expensive stuff stopped the 223 and you would have been totally safe if you had your face right next to the glass. You could even have had your nose pressed against the glass. It also stopped 308 soft point and you woudl have been OK with face next to the glass if you were glasses. It also stopped a 300 grain Sierra from the 375 but had you been standing near the glass and with your face level with bullet impact it would have been quite nasty. The Sierra was almost through and I would say that a 416 400 grain soft point would have gone through and a 500 grain soft point from 458 Lott etc would have easily gone through. A steel jacketed 300 grain Hornady FMJ went straight through the glass and also through a tree about 5 inches in diameter that the glass was leaning against. Mike | |||
|
| Moderator |
Mike, Its along time since I have played around with bullet proof vests, but as i understand it there are a number of factors besides caliber which govern whether they are defeated or not. Obviously there is the contrustion of the vest and the threat level it is designed to meet and vest construction continues to improve. From a balistics perspective, bigger is apparently not always better. I have been told that an FMJ from a .22 250 will penertrate certain vests and materials that a .308 FMJ won't for instance. Then you get into teflon coatings ect and I believe these can alter a bullets ability to penetrate as well. So using such penetration tests as a criteria for gun ownership is fraught with difficulties from a practical point of view but of course that is probably a bonus for the anti's.... Regards, Pete | |||
|
| one of us |
Are you guys fucking nuts by advocating "penetration tests" to determine wheter civilians should be allowed to buy this or that ammo? This must be a Euro/Aussie thing. I have to laugh when non-Americans say on this forum that American gun laws are as strict as they are in Europe/Oz. There are may be six states where gun laws approach the idiocy and complexity of Europe/UK/Oz. The rest, no contest. You guys would be amazed at the ease with which I can buy ANY non-fully-automatic firearm. You would be amazed at the lack of restrictions for buying ammunition. You would be amazed at the lack of government requirements for firerams storage. You would be amazed at the complete lack of government rules covering ammunition reloading. As it should be. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Who's advocating penetration tests? Mike has expressed a concern that it might happen in Oz, and we both think its a stupid... | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Going back, I see where you say so, and I agree with you. Mike375 I'm not so sure. I've heard him make some truly idiotic statements regarding what gun laws should be. Maybe ridiculous gun laws are fait accompli in Australia, but we Americans don't give up so easily. Right now the hated "assault weapons" ban (which didn't ban much of anything) has no chance of being renewed or made permanent by Congress. | |||
|
| Moderator |
I have seen Mike trying to start some controversy over gunlaws in the past, but I don't think I have ever seen him actually advocate gun control; I am sure he will chime in and make his position clear. The position in the US is pretty unique in that the right to bare arms is basically a political issue linked to your Constituation. In the UK and Oz we do not make that link and possesion of firearms is basically on a sporting/collecting basis and so is far more vunerable to attack by the Anti's. On the upside, after filling all the red tape in once every five years for my Firearms ticket, our hunting side of the law is far better than the States and I get to hunt deer for instance 365 days a year if i want with no tags to worry about either...for every cloud there is a silver lining! Regards, Pete | |||
|
| one of us |
Paranoid! The British government is really parano�d about gun ownership. Last thing i heard is that they even do no longer allow the import of Gun magazines like Guns&Ammo, American Rifleman..etc. So what can you collect in Britain? DEWATS? Or TAMIYA kits? | |||
|
one of us |
quote:Is this true, I'm on the verge of subscribing to G&A as it's a bit cheaper than buying from the newsagents here. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:I agree, but you have to place that difference in the context of legal and cultural differences. I believe that game in the UK is property of the landowner. That is not so in the US. The game is property of "the people" and thus regulated by the state government. That means that the state sets limits on controls on what can be hunted, when, and how much. There are legitimate reasons to do so, as up to around seventy years ago, market hunting was legal and game laws and their enforcement almost non-existent. The result was that the US was almost completely stripped of game. Only through the controls enacted in the first 25 years of the 20th century did most game populations rebound. In fact, there are more whitetail deer and wild turkey today than there were 50 or 60 years back. Remember also that hunting (what we call bird shooting and deer stalking) is available to anyone with a few dollars for a hunting license and a firearm. Firearms are neither expensive nor hard to obtain. Also, the United States has millions of acres of public land open to hunting in all states. I think our hunting regulations wouldn't be necessary in the UK, just like your relative lack of hunting rules would be a disaster here. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Orion 1 I could hardly be an advocate of gun laws when I am an anarchist ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} Many Americans, although not those who are very involved with the gun law issue, seem to operate under the false belief that gun laws in say the US Vs Australia are a product of the polictical system and/or the people. That is not the case. The differences are mainly caused by the population distribution. Another difference is that due to America's huge population policing of laws is a much bigger thing than in Australia. In other words an Australian road with a 60 mph limit allows you to go much faster than would be the case in America with a road that had a 75 mph limit. To reverse things on the gun issue in Australia we can shoot animals until the barrel melts, do it 24 hours a day and use a vehichle. Now someone in Australia might say that the Americans are fucked because the greenies have total control of their hunting. Of course the actual reason for the difference is simply Australia is the almost the same size as the US but with only 7% of the population and with nearly the whole population living either in or just next to one of our five biggest cities. Personally I think the English gun owners have done amazingly well to have retained gun ownership given the big population on the very small piece of dirt. As to penetration and body armour if you read my posting you would see I have a fear that one day it might determine the power of the calibre we can own. Mike | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:God bless you Mike375 ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Lets hope it continues.[ 06-03-2003, 01:56: Message edited by: British ] | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Our gun laws are different BECAUSE we have a different legal system that keeps the majority rule at bay. It's called the Bill of Rights, of which the right to keep and bear arms is a part of. Pete E. understands this. Why the fuck you insist in telling us Americans that you understand our country and how it works better than us continues to blow my mind away. Get a clue. You don't know fuck all about the inner workings of the United States or its people. Have you even ever been here????? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Our gun laws are different BECAUSE we have a different legal system that keeps the majority rule at bay. It's called the Bill of Rights, of which the right to keep and bear arms is a part of. The style of shooting and gun interests of the maority of people that participate on this forum cold be totally changed and it would be difficult to argue that the 2nd Amend had been infringed. Pete E. understands this. Why the fuck you insist in telling us Americans that you understand our country and how it works better than us continues to blow my mind away. As others have said it does not take too much to blow your mind away Get a clue. You don't know fuck all about the inner workings of the United States or its people. Have you even ever been here????? Never been there. Do you think a 1 year trip to corner of America will make all the difference. For someone who posts so many views on other countries I don't think you are in a position to throw stones. My suggestion to you is that if educate yourself to at least some degree you won't have the same need to go into personal abuse in so many of your postings. Have a nice evening. Mike | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:You are an even bigger idiot than I thought. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Orion 1 With your total faith that the 2nd Amen is infringed by any changes to what calibres, types of rifles etc. and etc. you are a dream come true for your antis. Add in your lack of ability to debate and you are manner from heaven. Mike | |||
|
| one of us |
The hunting is still ok in Britain but if the green party and the "lefties " can ban it they will. After, there will be no reason anymore for gun ownership and everything will be forbidden. Except for Scotland and some places in Wales, i think the UK is a very, very ..boring country and if i can no longer go hunt over their, well ....i ll' never have to go collecting pounds in my local bank office again. Dirk :rather be here in my b-monkey country (at least we still have some freedom) | |||
|
one of us |
quote:Dirk, I reckon you do not know too much about hunting in the UK. I have a house in the East of England which is about as far away as you can get from Scotland and Wales. Within 45 minutes of my door I have deer stalking on 30,000 acres (12,000 ha) including red, fallow, roe and muntjac. I can stalk deer 365 days a year, also bird shooting for partridge, pheasant, woodcock, snipe and duck. Wildfowling for duck and goose on the Ouse Washes in first class. Elsewhere in England I shoot grouse (�50/day ) and I stalk sika deer on 6,000 acres on the south coast of England. I fish for Salmon and Sea Trout in the north of England.There is nothing for me in Wales (where there are very few deer) or Scotland which is to far to travel. Also, in Scotland the socialist government has banned fox hunting. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:What a tosser. Kindly up the dose of your medication. | |||
|
| one of us |
to deerdogs: I'am not talking exclusively about hunting! I like shooting in general and also gun collecting! I like shooting with my FN HP, 22 lr Pistol, clay pigeon shooting, shooting military rifles. Some of my friends have a gun collector license and they P38,Fn, CZ and all the German stuff of ww2! Probably you can hunt a lot but for the rest...there isn't much left you know! I found british food terrible, everybody is having the same smile, but they are nice people you know. I rather go walking a whole day in Paris, Brussels,K�ln than London and the other cities in the uk where everything is so damned expensive that you can hardly afford a couple of beers before your purse is empty. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:It boils down to this In the UK we are more strictly controlled and may only have rifles we show we need. Conversely stalking is available for free and if you're switched on and live anywhere bar Mid and North Wales (no deer really) you can build up 1500ha free of charge and personaly cull 100-120 deer a year. In the US and Belgium you can probably own enough rifles to equip an army but either hunting is extremely tightly legislated or so expensive you have to share it with a club if you can get it at all. I would rather have my 6.5x55 and my UK stalking than all the Hollands in the world and have to get a tag or join a hunting club to hunt day to day. | |||
|
| one of us |
Dirk - I will agree with you about London. Not convinced about the food though. Regards | |||
|
| One of Us |
1894 It seems to me that Australia is possibly the best country for shooting when the whole picture is taken into account. What is interesting is that if I move to England I could probably justify a 300 or 375 H&H (sounds like 416 Wby might be stretching things and have plenty of animals to shoot. If I move to America then the 375 will be no problem but to shoot lots of animals I will be limited to prairie dogs and woodchucks.Mike | |||
|
| one of us |
We've got the best of both worlds in Canada.... It's pretty easy to buy a gun here, and you can have whatever cartridge you like. And in a year, I can shoot: Deer 3 (10 if you go to the Queen Charlotte Islands) Moose 1 Elk 1 Black Bear 2 Grizzly 1 Sheep 1 Goat 1 Cougar 2 Wolf 3 (No limit in some areas) Caribou 1 Coyote (NBL) Racoon NBL Skunk (Why?) NBL Wolverine 1 Lynx 1 Bobcat 5 Turkey 1 Hare 10/day Grouse 5/day Duck 5/day Goose 5/day No bag limit and no closed season on rabbits, crows or varmits. There is almost always ome seaosn open for game in BC. Most of the big game seasons go from Sept 1-Dec 15/30. Waterfowl goes right into February. Some big game seasons open in August. Spring bear season is April 1- June 15 Cougar/lynx/bobcat goes form December to the end of March. Of course, to get all these animals in a year you would have to be Super-Hunter. Most guys take a deer or two, maybe a bear and a moose or elk. Every now and then a sheep or a goat. We don't have the opportunity to shoot anythign 365 days a year, though...And no kangaroos, either! | |||
|
| one of us |
Yes ,.... then I want political asylum in Canada or just emmigrate and i speak English and French...i suppose Flemish is needless.. But it's a lot harder for a Belgian to go to the Canada then for the rest of the world to come to us. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Gatehouse The large majority of keen "shooters" in Australia normally only shoot pigs, goats and roos and also foxes, rabbits, hares, birds etc. Keen "hunters", who are very much in the minority, shoot various deer species of which the Sambar deer is considered the main prize. Most of our shooting is done on private property. Keen shooters are typcially shooting on large properties and with vehichle. Many of us relaod when we are away ona trip and also have loading gear attached to the vehichle. Probably similar to American prairie dog and woodchuck shooters except our varmints are bigger Mike | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Taking your reloading gear on a hunting trip is new to me! When I get to Australia, I want to spend a little time shooting Aussie style! When my gal was in Australia a couple of years ago she sent me a bunch of Aussie shooting mags..And it looks like you guys have alot of fun!! I was particularly impressed with 'swags' for sleeping in. Sort of like our bivvy sac but it looks alot more comfy. Of course, they would be pretty hard to pack up a mountain! | |||
|
| one of us |
I saw in Aussie GUNS & GAME magazine: 133 pigs shot in a week by 3 hunters: "Big boars by bike". I surely hope to come over once in "down under"! By the way MIKE are handguns;pistols and revolvers now banned in Australia? Dirk scout from the b-monkey country | |||
|
| One of Us |
dirk I think the handguns being banned are those over 38 calibre and also with barrels shorter than some figure. Pistols are not legal for shooting but they are in fact used heaps of time. Where many of us shoot you are a long way from the law To give you an example. Where I shoot the last 80 miles from one town to the town where the property is near is such that I would rarely see one other car on the road. On the property itself it is 8 miles from their homestead to where we set up loading gear etc. I also have permission to go onto neighbours properties and I could finish many miles away. When you go spotlight shooting the Lancruiser is filled with fuel and you need to refuel for the next night. Now I am in the state of New South Wales (NSW). Shooters in Western Australia (WA), South Australia (SA), Northern Territory (NT) and Queensland QLD) would regard where I shoot as being grossly over populated To give you an idea what WA is like, it is about 1/3rd the size of the US Lower 48 but the total popualtion is about 1,500,000 of which over a 1,000,000 live in the city of Perth. The NT is probably about a 1/4 or a 1/5th the size of the US and the population is about 200,000, most of who live in the Darwin area. In sheer numbers of animals shot it would be roos, goats and pigs in that order. The two most dangerous aspects of our shooting a hitting a hidden stump when chasing animals and/or being stranded with vehicle problems when shooting in summer. In a nutshell we are low on quality but high on quantity MOst of us would regard walking and shooting as mutually exclusive activities Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
Of course, they would be pretty hard to pack up a mountain! What is a mountain Mike | |||
|
| one of us |
Gatehouse~ How long does it take you to eat that lot ! ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} We all make the most of what we can, were we can, ive got free wildfowling on the Forth estuary 10 mins from my house. 2000 acres in Nottingham, 300 acres south of Aberdeen. 200 acres of airgun hunting plus ferreting next to my house. Sadly few deer im looking for land with more deer it, takes time to build up hunting lands over here but all mine is free ! Things could be worse ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} things could be better ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} Englander | |||
|
| one of us |
Englander It doesn't take much to eat up a bunch of game...Until you get a big moose on the ground... Then you are looking at moose sausages for breakfast, moose meatloaf for lunch and moose roast for dinner...and maybe chocolate mousse for dessert I forgot to list Bison, as well. To get a Bison tag you need to enter a lottery, and they only give out about 50 tags a year, maybe less. I've never drawn a bison tag, but I knwo that when you get a big bison on the ground you are looking at some SERIOUS work...and you better buy two more extra large freezers! Your point of making the best of what you have is so true. There are far too many whiners out there, who gripe about everything, especially what cannot be changed- like the weather! | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:It's what they have in New Zealand | |||
|
| one of us |
Mike 375: I hope you gentlemen in Australia and Britain and elsewhere know that Orion1 needs a little bit more polish on his debate skills. While I never badmouth a fellow gun owner, when we have all too many self proclaimed and 'enlightened' idiots trying to do so; People give their prospective from their point of view. They may not have the luxury of all the facts someone else might have. However to call you slanderous names and tell you are "fucking nuts"... well he is not a good example of how all Americans think, but he is a good example of how Americans are perceived elsewhere. I am sure his response to me will be 'fuck you' also. However if so, I am sure you have trailer parks in Australia and can relate to the term Trailer Trash. Class or LACK thereof, does not really have any international borders. Please accept my apologies as an American, for the lack of sensitivity of my fellow citizen. ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| one of us |
Gatehouse: Canada is a great place. Just need to get rid of some of those idiots in your government, starting with Cretien! Canada always has to be one up-man-ship on the USA. That is not a problem for me, but why does Canada have to also do that with all the bad habits that happen in the USA? When we have our "know it all" idiots such as the SUV driving San Francisco Yuppies telling what the rest of us should do, or the Likes of Hilary or Bill Clinton existing. Then Canada has to come up with " we can produce ever more stupid politicans than you guys can". I love Canada and Canadians, but the older I get the more I think that government excells at stupidity, no matter where it is located. And a "Canadian" is becoming an endangered Species up there. In Vancouver, how many people are NOT Chinese or Indian or Paki's? Once in Washington, I was hunting and in came a pickup with an Indian ( not the native type) a Mexican and a Paki to the same area. After watching these guys for 15 minutes I just left. You should have some intelligence showing before you can walk into Walmart and buy a Hunting license and go out in the woods with a high powered rifle. I know a Chinese guy also who is a hunter. He is well educated but I wonder about his common sense with a firearm. Hunting is a right, but so is being Stupid I guess. They just don't mix real well. | |||
|
| one of us |
Governments, whether they be local, state, provincial, regional or federal, all suffer the same problem. It does not matter what country you are in, or where you live.. Once elected, ALL politicians have only one job: TO GET RE ELECTED! Some I 'prefer' over others, but to a man/woman, I do not think any politician is completely trustworthy. | |||
|
| one of us |
Yeah, they pretty much disqualify themselves from the position by wanting it, don't they? Oh Seafire, speaking of trailer trash we have a new Canadian sitcom called "Trailer Park Boys". It's filmed in Halifax, I believe, but these boys epitomise trailer trash. You should see it if you can. Note - this is not Red Green humour. - Dan | |||
|
| one of us |
Trailer Park Boys! I love it... Those guys used to own a pizza joint and goofed around with a video camera...next thing you know, they're on TV and in a Tragically Hip video! | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia