Dan,

Canada like the British don't get enough credit for the quality of humor they have, which is second to none, even over the USA.

One of the biggest thing I miss about moving to Oregon in 1995 from Minnesota, is missing the Red Green Show.

I was also employed for two years by a Canadian company and actually covered Alberta and BC for them, while covering the NW USA as a regional manager. I fell in love with that blonde with the Big Boobs in Edmonton, but after her, my favorite reasons to come to Canada especially Edmonton, was Montana's Restaurant and then the TV show, the Royal Canadian Air Farce.

It really pains me to watch our governments BS back and forth. It also pained me to go up to Canada and watch the younger kids in their 20s have so much hostility toward anything American, including me, just because of my accent.

I have as much love for Canada as I do my own country, and to watch what the government is doing up there to the country anymore. I should say its citizens. I have been going to Canada regularly since the 1970s, several times a year.
God bless all Canadians!

Here is some news for England, but bad news for Canada, Sth Africa and US

I had a lot of involvement in our 1996 gun law introduction and in particular with stopping the centre fire licence being based on calibre. During that time I met a couple of US "genuine antis" out here and have met some of ours.

Before going on let me define what I mean by a "genuine anti". The "genuine anti" is not your bunny and tree hugger etc. Those people only make up the numbers. The "genuine anti" is very hard line and extremely aware politically and plays the game very hard. One big plus they have over our side is that they are seasoned veterans who only have guns as one of their issues.

Firstly, the American antis regarded the 2nd Amendment as their best weapon and when one sees the attitude of many Americans on the forum it is easy to see why.

Secondly, they regard America, Australia, Canada and Sth Africa as all being similar targets in that all four countries have large land mass and frontier backgrounds.

Australia was and is seen as the first target because of the small population.

The Australian experience will probably mean that a ban on a gun type that is used by many shooters (such as semi auto rifle and shotgun in Australia) is unlikely to happen again. Some of the antis were more tuned into the counter productive nature of a wide ban than were the politicians. There are two difficulties in such bans. Firstly the average member of the public (and many from the general media) thinks all guns are banned. Just look at how American gun owners think all guns are banned in Australia. In the case of those who are aware that only semi autos were involved the problem with non compliance continually surfaces when shootings occur.

A shooting in Australia now receives very little publicity when performed by a non licenced shooter and/or a banned gun.

My prediction is that the shooters licence will be the way of the future and for two basic reasons.

Firstly (and this was done in Australia years ago) a simply licence is introduced that is no more than a formality. Thus not much opposition. By staging renewals to match post codes or dates of birth etc it means that licence criteria can be toughened but only a small percentage of shooters are involved at one time, that is, at renewal time.

Secondly, by tightening licencing criteria you do not have to pay compensation as is done with a gun ban. In other words it is similar to the situation whereby someone might no longer qualify for a driver's licence say due to health. It is then up to them to sell their car.

The interesting aspect to the shooters licence (and its worst feature) is that most gun owners won't read complex documents or even read summaries of such documents. This was very much the situation in Australia.

By far and away the biggest changes to our gun laws were the proposed licence criteria. However most gun owners could only focus on the semi auto ban.

My view (and many others out here as well) is that the American gun law situation is the most important as that is where virtually all our components come from.

The US situation is extremely worrying with proposed bans of on 50 BMGs for a couple of reasons and this forum illustrates the problem.

As we know the majority of American gun owners are anti long range shooting on a "hunting" basis and tend to be anti the use of bench rest style rifles for hunting. The problem is that you do not need a gun to hunt as is evidenced by the bow and arrow forums. In fact the very argument against the use of bench style guns for hunting is also an argument against guns for hunting.

To go one step further, one of the things that helped us stop a calibre based licence was that we are "shooter" and not "hunters". For example our two main gun magazines are called Australian Shooter and Sporting Shooter. We talk about going on a shooting trip etc. Of course it is difficult to be a shooter without a gun.

We all have a long way to go in this battle.

Mike

seafire

I have at times wondered if Orion 1 is an anti American.

In Australia Americans are well liked.

Mike

Mike 375:

First, the only comment I can make on Orion, is that I hope not all Americans come off like he does. Sounds like to me he is an anarchists, and if you are not from where he lives then you are not worth dirt. He definitely reaks of what we call Trailer Trash.

As far as what is happening in the USA on the fight against gun owners, I do think your prospective is wrong. I am sure it is probably what you read in print in Australia.

Couple of things that you said that come to mind:
"American Hunters are anti long range hunting"

We have a lot of diverse hunting terrain in our country. Some areas for hunting have many farms etc in the area. Some states will only let you hunt with a shotgun, since the population in the rural areas is still too Built up for their satisfaction to use a centerfire. However in the same states you can use a centerfire, to hunt coyotes. Once again politicans making up laws on something they really don't know squat about.
What many of us hunting purists don't like is someone who goes into Walmart, buys himself a Whatever Caliber Magnum and a big scope and then thinks he has a 700 yrd rifle. So he starts lobbing shells at something so far away he really does not know how far away it was. Most times he does not hit anything. However he also does not have a clue where his bullets are hitting. There are other hunters out there, and people also. Guys like me normally ask them, so you have a 700 yd rifle, are you an experienced 700 yd shooter? I am and most people are not.
They just drop there jaw when I am at the range talking to them as they try to zero their rifle and can't even get it on the paper at 100 yds. and then watch me hit a rock that is about 3 feet high and 18 inches wide at 700 yds. ( from a benchrest) with a 6 power scope.
This is what many of we hunters are against, but not against long range shooting if someone can do it. We don't just think it is sporting and ethical, since few can actually do it., and if they hit it, it does not guarantee the shot placement is worth a dam.

As far as bench rest type rifles out hunting, that is not a problem. If someone wants to carry the weight of it. I haul around an 11 pound rifle, but I am the exception to the rule.
It is for long range, but I put a smaller scope on it and carry it deer hunting. It is in a 6.5 x57 which is a rare bird over here, but I like it. Other parts of the country, people just hunt from a stand at long range, like in Texas.
Those types of rifles sell well.

The Anti Gun people are just anti any gun. They just try and attack different types and see what happens. The media people seem to be part of this crowd so when anything happens they report it in a very anti gun biased manor.

Some nut was shooting people as a sniper in Washington DC this past year,. and got about 14 victims killed before he and his accomplice were finally caught. All the time it was speculated by the press, that it was some sort of White Guy, and that he was doing it with some sort of High powered Heavy Barreled Sniper rifle. What the media and political antis were already gearing up to was attack the manufacture of any type of rifle we use for varmint hunting, and to ban the sell of rifle scopes.

Well it turned out the guys caught were blacks, and then they were using a totally different type of gun than the media was predicting. they were using something similar to an M 16, a Bushmaster.

Well first of all the guys being black, the liberal media, dropped all of this lets now ban this stuff, like a hot potato. And even tho they are always trying to ban any semi auto weapon, because it was not some " White RedNeck" they could not paint their normal picture of it all, so once again the whole issue was dropped.

Any type of minority is a sacred cow in this country, especially if you are black. They continually cry that the world owes them all sorts of welfare, mass amounts of money since their ancestors were slaves, they want special considerations for jobs, contracts, educational openings etc. And if you stand up and call it for all of the BS it is, then you are labeled a racists. Most of the Black people you meet in the USA are the biggest racists you will ever meet. If you are not black,they act like they have the God given right to discriminate against you all day long.

Typically the anti Gun people are the self professed "liberal" white yuppies, who continually try to pass laws that don't apply to them, while making the people that they do apply to, pay for them, so they can sit back at their cocktail parties and pat each other on the back for saving this or saving that.

They typically think they are more educated that everyone else so they should tell us what laws we need to be applied to us, so our lives will be better according to their standards.

It is my generation, the Fucking Hippies, that has ruined this country, and spread their bad habits that they got from doing too many drugs, to the rest of the world and call it enlightenment.

All of Europe bitching about the US kicking Saddam out of Iraq. They would not have allowed some ass hole like him to exist in 1945 I bet, but now that they are so enlightened, we are the bad guys. That is akin to telling the US that it was wrong to go in and take Hitler out of power in 1945. If someone would have had the balls to do it in 1938, we would not have had WW2 and how many people would have not been killed. It is the fucking Hippies and their children, the Yuppies who have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths, who try and philosophize about something, when they don't have the first clue about it.

In example I live in Oregon, where we have Salmon fish in our rivers. Well our city people in Portland seem to think we need to "Save the Salmon" because some self professed liberal somewhere said so. And then we have all sorts of money poured into our state to make this something political from other states particularly San Francisco and Seattle. Since about 52 % of the states population lives in the City area of the state, these laws get passed. And the 48% that live on the 98% of the rest of the state have to live by these laws. And they can't do anything without the constant need to jack up fees so they have even more money for the government, so they can repeat this pattern over and over.

The thing that pisses me off the most: Of these people who say " We need to save the Salmon" could not identify one in a fish tank if their life depended on it. Yet they could sure identify it on a plate at a Four Star Restaurant somewhere. The hypocracy is ruling and ruining our country.

The anti gun people always attack our Second Amendment to the Constitution. They claim that the constitution and especially that amendment is outdated and needs to be dropped. However the same people scream at the top of their lungs that anyone criticizing all the Bullshit they are alway saying is stepping on their First AmendmentRights : Free Speech.

So we need to get rid of the Second Amendment because they don't need it, but we need to magnify the First Amendment for just them, because they need it.

They are a product of a generation that the word "NO" from their mom meant they should go ask their dad. And if dad also said "NO" it just meant that they did not throw a big enough tempertantrum yet. Hilary Clinton is the opitomy of that.

All I know from High School Sports, offense is the best defense. Until we start attacking these idiots with their own crap, we are not making any headway, we are only maintaining ground.

As a kid in England in the mid 60s when my dad was in the USAF over there, most of my best friends living off the base, were Aussie kids, and Scottish or Irish. They did not give anyone shit, and did not take any shit from the English kids who hang in gangs.

I hope I get to visit your country before I die.
No finer people walk the earth than Australians.
G'dday Mate!

seafire

In terms of an anti feeling towards 50 BMG and bench style rifles for hunting I was think mainly about the "public view" which is put forward as distinct from individual shooters.

For example, the forum

www.longrangehunting.com

was started to so as these people could avoid the fights that break out on other forums such as this one and HuntAmerica when the subject of shooting deer and elk at extreme range is discussed.

I think it is generally true to say that whether it be America, Australia or other countries the public face of shooting is divided. It certainly has been in Australia.

When you come down you will enjoy the spotlight shooting and making a goat of yourself chasing roos all over the place in a vehichle


Mike

In England, I would have to wear Tweeds and shoot a 98 New Bond Street Shotgun, In Canada, I would have to have a Guide for the most part, and In Oz with a jack light for roo's and make for dam sure not to step on any one of those snakes they have there. Now here is my dirty little problem, I would enjoy the Driven Pheasants in England, the Sheep hunting in the Canadian Rockies, and of course the shimp on the barbie down under. We all have our hunting traditions, and you know what any one of you would be welcome in my camp as I would be in yours. For you guys in Rio Linda, 98 New Bond Street London is where Holland and Holland is, the center of all good things of wood and steel.