I posted a similar message in the Australia/New Zealand forum.

I am an avid White Tail deer and Waterfowl hunter who is slowly trying to expand outside those realms and begin going on big game hunts. My cousin, 1115, has been trying to get me to go to Africa, which I am indeed interested in, but my current interest lies in Red Stag. I would love to hunt Red Stag on its native grounds.

I want to hunt a territory and not a high fence area. A Stalk and Shoot type hunt with a guide. Can all of you who have experience with hunting Red Stags give me some advice? Pictures, share your experiences, etc? How much $ do I need to be prepared to spend to shoot a very quality Red Stag and maybe a Fallow Deer also?

Any advice would be very much appreciated. I am new to this site and just love it thus far!!

hi,
If you want to shoot a really big stag, and you take stalking on an estate, you"d better be rich!
I used to lease land in Scotland(i"m in Northern Ireland, which is a 2hr ferry away), and i shot a few stags on my land which had a mix of Red and Roe deer. None of the stags i shot were big, although i did see a couple of big ones out of season. Someone here might be able to fix you up with some stalking, but on private recreational leases really big stags are few and far between. You might be able to find a 6 or 8 pointer if you"re really lucky, but if you want a guarantee of success, then you"re talking big money on an estate.
Fallow don"t command as high prices, and might be easier to come by.
Try google for uk deer stalking and you"ll find a load of uk agents.
good shooting

Thanks for the info. In your opinion, do you think I have a better chance of success in New Zealand compared to Scotland in terms of Trophy Stag?

I wish i"d been to New Zealand to compare!
From what i"ve read NZ has some great hunting and big deer, but Scottish hill stalking is known world wide.
I did a quick search just now and from looking at just a few, a Scottish stag could cost you anything from $1000 US and upwards depending on who you go with, but be careful of trophy fees relating to the number of points, and make sure you know if an "outing fee" is for a whole day, or a morning/evening.
what do you want from your trip? I can relate, as i get my share of deer stalking here, but i"m going to Canada next year to hunt bigger game. Do you want a trophy, or do you just want the experience of a different hunt? If you want a trophy, do you want to pay for preparation?
(this is all the stuff i had to ask myself!)
If you don"t care about trophies, then i would thoroughly recommend Red hind stalking in Scotland. It"s a lot cheaper and you"re almost gauranteed to shoot more than one at a time.
Like i said b4, search the net, talk to people on here, and see what you fancy.
good shooting

Skyjacker:

I have hunted hill stags in Scotland, and without a doubt, it is one of hunting's best kept secrets. I enjoyed it every bit as much as Africa. When I hunted, you could shoot a stag a day for 400 bucks (probably higher now that the dollar is weaker) and often you could shoot a cull animal for free. The bad news is that you won't get to shoot the "breeding stock" but who cares? My best was a ten point that I shoulder mounted, but in hindsight (no pun intended) I should have skull mounted it. I have two others done that way.

I have also hunted NZ, but I did not shoot a red stag. I hunted tahr and chamois. I saw some nice stags, but a lot of those come from high fenced operations...no thanks.

If you go to Scotland, bring your spouse. Since you will stay at a local hotel (staying at the estates is what really jacks up the cost), you get to hang out at the bar and sip that single malt everyone talks so much about. After the hunt, tour the castles and churches. Go visit the lakes district. Tons of stuff to do.

I have always wanted to stalk Red Stag in classic Scotland but have only hunted them in New Zealand so far.
You can hunt them three ways in NZ.
The first is to shoot on private game fenced areas, second is to hunt on big ranches {no game fence and the third is to hunt on public land. ie;Forestry, Crown or National Park.
I have shot Reds on both public land and free range farm land.
The free range private land is great with some excellent game but at a cost. The Public land can also be great in the right spot with some really beautiful true wilderness hunting at often minimal cost.
Cheers
ozhunter

Stalking stags in Scotland in the rut is going to be enough of an experience that you are not going to be too concerned about trophy quality.....

You are likely to get bigger heads in England in the West Country or Norfolk etc but the stalking will be more woodland based and potentialy a bit harder - again the rut and a guide who can call is probably the best bet.

1894 has hit it on the head,

Scottish stalking is not about trophy quality, and definately not trophies to compare with what we've seen from NZ in the piccies.

However the experience of hill stalking during the rut will not leave you in a hurry.

There are some big woodland reds in norfolk and the westcountry but take a week to try and get the one you want as they don't always arrive to order!!

Apparently shooting a few fallow is easy but I'm not gonna comment....
A couple of Roe should be on the cards though if you want to add another species.

Rgds,
FB

Rgds,
FB

quote:

Originally posted by SkyJacker:
I want to hunt a territory and not a high fence area. A Stalk and Shoot type hunt with a guide. Can all of you who have experience with hunting Red Stags give me some advice? Pictures, share your experiences, etc? How much $ do I need to be prepared to spend to shoot a very quality Red Stag and maybe a Fallow Deer also?

What constitutes a "quality" red stag to you?? Unless you answer that question, I doubt you are going to get much specific advice here. But in general, I think the following is true:

1) there is some lovely stag hunting in Scotland, but you should not go for the size of the trophy. In general Scotland should be hunted for the experience as opposed to trophy size.

2) New Zealand has some fantastic stags, but it is unliklely you'll find any on public land. On private land, it is possible to take very decent stags at limited cost (2-4000US, maybe), but don't go there with an expectation of so and so many SCI points, and pictures in your mind of World class or record stags. NZ has a very commercially oriented hunting infrastructure, and the providers are keenly aware of what stags of a certain size will fetch on the market. So, if you are looking for a particular size of trophy, you are probably looking at what is almost becoming a NZ specialty: red stags bred and raised in captivity, and released for shooting into (mostly) limited enclosures, where the "hero" hunter shows up and takes his pick according to taste and account balance. The stags taken on some of these properties are outlandishly large, and so are the prices they are sold at.

Example: NZ Red Stag Hunting Price List

Whether this is your thing, or whether you can swing this economically, only you can say.

3) stag hunting can be done pretty much all over Europe, stretching as far east as Russia, Turkey, Caucasus and Northern Iran. The subspecies (and trophy size) will vary depending on exactly where you hunt (e.g. Scotland vs. Bulgaria). The "traditional" red stag hunting grounds of Central Europe are in countries such as Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. Depending on where you go, the hunting may either be conducted as stand hunting (giving you the best opportunity for taking a stag of an agreed trophy size), or stalking in either open or heavily wooded terrain (probably providing for a more exiting hunt). Countries such a Bulgaria probably have the biggest stags in Europe, whereas countries such as Poland offer more modest stags, yet at prices which are more in range of the regular guy. In most of these Central European countries, trophy size is measured in terms of weight of the antlers (boiled skull, dried for a day or two). In other countries (e.g. CZ or Serbia) trophy sizes are measured in CIC points. Decent European trophies probably start somewhere around 7-8 kg and go up to, maybe, 12-13 lkg - the latter being World class and VERY expensive! For many years a 10 kg stag was considered the "dream number" - just like a 40" ram or a 200 point mule deer. Traditionally, the trophy fee on a 10 kg red stag was about DM10.000 - approximately Euro5000 in todays currency. On top of that comes the cost of accommodation and guiding. Smaller stags can be had for quite a bit less, and larger stags get REALLY expensive very quickly...

To get an idea of what red stag hunting might cost in Europe, try to rummage around websites such as:

Diana - Hunting Consulant from Denmark

Lots of possibilities, but it really depends on you what you are looking for - factors such as expected trophy size, hunting type and price certainly come into the equation. But wherever you go, if you experience the roar (rut) of the red stag, it should provide you memories for a lifetime.

- mike

I would say that a trophy red stag to me consists of something that would score 320 or up by SCI. A quality stag would be a different scenario. Maybe 220 and up? Really though.. quality to me is based on the hunt and not the animal. My philosophy is I want to pay for the hunt, not the animal... but when the hunt is over and the experience is only a memory.. the bigger the animal.. the more satisfied I'm going to feel.

Skyjacker,
try this for general info:
www.arranland.net

regards
griff

Skyjacker,

I know you don't want to hunt inside a high fence and I'm not going to try to change your mind. But that's how it turned out when I went to NZ this March.

By turned out, I mean that I didn't know that's where I'd be hunting. I bought the trip at the silent auction at the Dallas Safari Club convention in Jan. I went solely off the written description and it never occurred to me to ask, so I didn't know about the high fence until we got to the gate.

I seriously considered saying thanks but no thanks. We drove around the property for about six hours, though, and didn't explore all of it.

I tried to attach a pic per the posted instructions, but in case it doesn't work here's a link:

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/spolito/?action=...current=DSC01869.jpg

You'll see two mountains behind me. The second mountain is approximately at the center of the property. All the deer were part of breeding populations and weren't put and take. They were trying to cull goats but we could never get close enough for a shot.

I also got a Fallow Deer, which I thought was more of a challenge then the Red Deer. I described that on your thread in the Aus/NZ forum. Feel free to judge whether I compromised my principles, but I wouldn't have done it if I thought it wasn't fair chase.

That said, my guide John Berry has access to other properties that aren't high-fenced. I found him to be an excellent guide and he and his family were wonderful hosts. They live in Methven, which is a very picturesque ski resort town about an hour outside of Christchurch.

http://www.johnberryhunting.com/

Isle of Skye has the reputation for the biggest heads in Scotland. 7 pointers (14 to us) are not uncommon. That said, and generally speaking, New Zealand probably has the biggest Red Stag trophies in the world because of their management systems, notwithstanding Argentina and elsewhere in Europe and Russia.

mho has the scoop on CIC points in Eastern Europe.

With respect Skyjacker, if you are someone who counts his trophies by a method of "320 points or above" I would suggest that Scotland is not the place for you. You are probably better off in Eastern Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
With respect Skyjacker, if you are someone who counts his trophies by a method of "320 points or above" I would suggest that Scotland is not the place for you. You are probably better off in Eastern Europe.

I don't like quantifying anything, but someone asked me specifically what I would constitute a trophy and I took a guess at it. Enjoyment on the other hand would be a combination of many things with the main factor being experience.

I'm not about to shoot a 320+ stag on a canned hunt. Fenced in area don't bother me if they constitute thousands of acres of open country or hundreds to thousands of acres of well covered terrain. But the balance between that is a matter of personal preference.

I have no experience on this type of hunt, therefore my questions and answers may and probably do sound naive.

So what is in Eastern Europe and why there?

quote:

Enjoyment on the other hand would be a combination of many things with the main factor being experience.

A traditional stalk in the Scottish Highlands on a misty morning is a wonderful experience you will remember forever. I have not hunted in Eastern Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by WPN:

quote:

Enjoyment on the other hand would be a combination of many things with the main factor being experience.

A traditional stalk in the Scottish Highlands on a misty morning is a wonderful experience you will remember forever. I have not hunted in Eastern Europe.

Agreed, but before anyone buys a stag stalk in Scotland they have to consider this scenario.

You've been out on the hill all morning and the stalker gets you uponto a small bunch of stags. there are a couple of switches a handful ranging from spindly 6pointers (3x3's) upto a couple of average looking 8 pointers (4x4's) a young 10 pointer and a mature royal.

Stalker asks you to take one of the 6's. given that it is a flat troophy fee how do you feel about taking this animal given the prescence of a bigger animal in the herd?

If your answer is that you would be unhappy, or dissapointed then stalking stags in sScotland is not for you.

FB

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:

Agreed, but before anyone buys a stag stalk in Scotland they have to consider this scenario.

You've been out on the hill all morning and the stalker gets you uponto a small bunch of stags. there are a couple of switches a handful ranging from spindly 6pointers (3x3's) upto a couple of average looking 8 pointers (4x4's) a young 10 pointer and a mature royal.

Stalker asks you to take one of the 6's. given that it is a flat troophy fee how do you feel about taking this animal given the prescence of a bigger animal in the herd?

If your answer is that you would be unhappy, or dissapointed then stalking stags in sScotland is not for you.

FB

Extremely well put!

I hope to hubnt Scottish red stag one day. The closest I got to hunting in Scotland was Northumberland.

While the red stags in Scotland might be smaller in body and antler, they are true wild hunting trophies.

Skyjacker, FB described the potential day on the Scottish hill to perfection. You will probably get a long hard walk, with large numbers of deer in view, and most likely will only be allowed to shot a cull beast, or at best, a good beast well past his prime and "going back".

In Eastern Europe, they are much more in tune with trophy hunting and points scores. You will probably hunt low ground woodland during daylight, or sit in a high seat at dawn or dusk. The deer in general will be much bigger in body and antler. The stalker will probably tell you in advance what a deer will score and cost before you pull the trigger. A completely different experience.

Now that is out of the way, can someone recommend a good lodge in Perthshire or the like, this has put me in the mood for a trip this year. Haven't been over for Reds for three years. Its is only a 2 hour ferry and a 4 hour drive for me.

CD,

If you are intrested in a go at the stags then give Bob Pirie on Bolfracks Estate a call. He is a cracking lad and loves his stags and grouse above all else. I've stalked with him once and my freind visits him at least twice a year now!!

Oh, and the hill machine has to be seen to be believed!! I'm hoping that I can get up there myself at some point but it is looking unlikely. Not to mention that I still have a date with that big Red stag in Norfolk that my mate (the same one) keep seeing.

Drop me a PM if you would like the numbers.

Regards,
FB

I have hunted red stags in both Scotland and New Zealand. They are both very different experiences. If trophy size is a factor in your decision, I would suggest New Zealand. They can provide any size trophy you can afford. It was an enjoyable experience, but in many ways, its more trophy collecting than real hunting.

Stalking in Scotland is real wild hunting. The largest stag I saw would have been scoffed at by the guides in New Zealand. He was a nice heavy 6x6 that I estimated at no more than about 230 SCI. I didn't get a shot at this one because he didn't stick around long enough, but that memory will have me coming back. I took a 5x5 stag that I am told is very respectable for Scotland. Took a nice 6x6 roe deer also. Goats are also available.

I can highly recommend both outfitters and they are both great hunts to take the wife on.

South Island, New Zealand: Brendon Matthews

Isle of Islay, Scotland: Ken Aldridge/A&C Sporting Services.

AK Hunter

I want to see a picture of your 6x6 Roe Deer !

Waidmannsheil
s.

Sky Jacker it seems that you are getting lots of very good advise on the Scottish stags.
I like to offer you an option on some of the many options down here in New Zealand

Firstly not all the stags in NZ are estate hunts,BUT you will not find huge 350-500inch free range stags in NZ , period. If any body attempts to tell you differently then get a very good diffination on what they consider to be free range.

Wild Stags, and i use this term to avoid any confusion, are here in NZ and in very good hunting numbers.
I'm in total agreement that our NZ stags are larger in the antler than the vast majority of Highland stags ,and i say this with no disrespect to our Scottish friends.The region(Otago) that i hunt has a genetic strain of the Stag that can be traced directly to the Highlands and due almost entirely to environmently factors these animals have far excceed there Scotish ancestors in antler growth.

Combined with our more "American" management practises where we are more inclined to take animals in their prime and you have a scenerio were we are continously taking 6x6 -8x8 270 -230 inch stags.

Now interestinly enough I've had the pleasure to see a great deal of the highlands in years gone by. It is not a fair comparsion to view the highlands and some of our wild deer country. You need to be "sheep fit" to hunt alot of our wild stags.
The Highlands are flat !!
Glean as much info as you can Skyjacker or anyone that is looking for a hunt in NZ, I am sure there are hunts here to meet every requirement.
But please get all your information correct before you arrive down here, as China Fleet said you can get a surprise that may or may not suit your expectations.

All
Yes.. A Misty Morn.. High on a Mountain in Scotland.. Crawling around like a serpant..Water flowing around your body .. Waiting for a chance.. Oh did I mention ticks..If this sounds like fun to you give Malcom Harman/ UK Outfitters a e-mail at Malcom.Harman6@virgin.net..He's got a great hunt waiting for you..
AK

Sorry, my mistake!! The roe buck was a 3x3 - 6 points total.