Im so new, all I know is that I DON'T Know... My hunting (for starters) will be mostly hiking on public lands looking for shots. Ranges will be under 300m (probably under 150m). Im starting off with a Remington 700 with a 16inch in 223; but Im willing to consider other calibers. Im not a huge fan of rimfires, just never found a rifle that felt right for what I wanted.

Ive seen articles about 22Hornet, and 257 Roberts and 22-250; but Im not sure where they "fit in". Likewise the bigger cartridges like 220swift and 243, etc.

With a load that will produce sub MOA groups consistently in your gun it will do what you need for any varmint out to 300 meters. You need to keep your groups no larger than the target vitals you are shooting at the range you shoot.

Well, you know enough to get started.

But perhaps you don't know enough to be confident that you've got the perfect caliber/gun/load for what you think you might run into.

After some 60 odd years of shooting/hunting/reloading, all I can say is welcome to the club. My insecurities have led me to acquire any number of different firearms, each of which might not be perfect for whatever I want to use it for.

Go figure . . .

EXACTLY**on the one hand I KNOW it can be done with a 22LR if the range and wind is right, and I KNOW that some guys are using 220Swift just because they can at 50 meters, and I KNOW one gun isnt gonna be perfect in all situations.

ON THE OTHER HAND, this started off as me just wanting to get out in the field with a rifle and less about "Fur Grenades". Thats why I started off with a Rem 700 in 223 with a 16inch barrel. I figured I could always use it for my tactical pursuits. Now that I have that rifle; Im still thinking something else (less RAMBO more Tweeds and knee boots) would be nice, so Im looking for an "excuse" to tell myself you need a _______, because its in _______ caliber. Right now 22Hornet seems like a void between rim fires and 223. Between 223 and say 308. What would be the advantages of say 22-250, 243, or 220Swift (anything else...) for the relatively short ranges (300m +/-), Im likely to find in Pennsylvania.

Is there any real advantage to cartridges over 223 for short range varmints?

Don't get anxious til you learn just how great a .223 is. Do you know the twist rate? A 12 or 14:1 is just about right for 55gr or less.

IF you get the bug for something like a centerfire .17 cal. I invite you to come join us small cal guys at: www.saubier.com
We'll sure help spend your money over there with all the suggestions. There's a bunch of guys from PA there too.

Get a good bipod for that thing. What did you put on for a scope? OR have you yet?

Wish you the best with it. Meet someone that does what you have in mind with the same cal and you'll learn the tricks much quicker.

George

I started this quest because I wanted to go hiking in the woods and fields with a rifle, not so much for HUNTING Per Se; but just to wander and IF a shot presented then by all means Id want to take it AND if it happened to say be rabbit season, then all the better.

After discussing this with a my buddy we decided, VARMINT Hunting was the best legal description of what we wanted. I actually think of it more as STALKING, although I realize its not the same as pursuing a Chamois in the Alps. Now that Im getting into it, I do like the idea of Varmint Hunting as well; but I think (for now anyway, I'll use a set of "Sticks" rather than a Bi-pod. Im also likely to be the guy dressed in lederhosen....

If it's tweeds and knee-highs, I'd trade the .223 for a Cooper Custom Classic in .222 or maybe a Luxus 11 or Merkel JAGD in 243. Any 22 center fire...any center fire will do for the target of opportunity varmint hunter. For that matter any rifle will do as well as long as you shoot it well. As you get hooked, and progress in you soon found varmint addiction and start hunting with calls, over bait, at night, or in the vast prairie dog towns of the west your "needs" will become more apparent to you. I would imagine p-dogs are just as fun to shoot in tweed knickers, with or without riding leather in the crotch.

Number 1 rule is that if you shoot a varmint with the rifle, it is a varmint caliber.
I shoot or have shot varmints with 22short, long, long rifle, 17hmr, 22mag, 17rem, 221, 222, 223, 22ppc, 22-250, 220 swift, 22/243 Middlested, 6x47 rem, 6mmBR, 243, 6mm rem, 250 Sav, 250 AI, 257 DGR, 6.5x55 swede, 7mm08,7x57,308, 30-06, 300 win mag, and 35 Whelen AI.
My 223 is in my truck every day.

Edelweiss - First welcome to Varmint hunting. I've spent countless hours calling Coyotes & Bobcat, and many hours laying in hay fields shooting whistle pigs and rock chucks. It has been one thing that consistently puts smiles on faces.

Second, and way less important than the grins, is what you produce the smiles with. The .223 was a great first choice. It's quite effective as long as you shoot it well. I have semi-auto's in .223 that I use a lot for calling when shots are usually pretty close. For areas when I'm likely to have a dog hang up out at 250yds or more I really like my .22-250 as it has proven to be accurate, and is heavier with a great trigger and higher magnification scope. I have also found I enjoy using my .257R a LOT with 75gr Hornady HP's on 'yotes. It keeps me familiar with it, and when it's time to hunt big game with it (or a matching .338 I have) the gun feels "right".

Nothing is perfect all the time. I've used a handgun to shoot coyotes at 130yards, (.223 in a contender), and long range rifles to shoot them up close.
I've had a 'yote about jump in my lap and literally had to point and shoot with the .257Roberts, it was the closest ever. When it was over there were pieces of the head on my boot and barrel. I also shot one with a 7mm RM at about eight yards, because where we were at I'd shot several as far away as 400 yards so that's what I was planning on.

I'm on the same page as Duane, if I can shoot a varmint with it today, then today it's a varmint cartridge.

If you decide to save fur, this discussion would be entirely different.

Take a look at 20 Tac or perhaps a 17 Tac depending on barrel and bullet availability.
I love my 20 Tactical, little recoil and small amount of muzzle blast.

I walk/hunt quite a bit.

my favorite rifles to take for those jaunts is either my Remington model 700 adl in 220 swift, or my stag 6-h AR platform in 223.


I usually spot and stalk rock chucks and get shots under 50 yds [sometimes]
quite often they pick me out first, then I have to watch them run, and wait for them to hide in the rocks and pick them off from wherever I'm at.
usually I see them at about 100 yds out and have to look for a spot to shoot from that's unobstructed and steady.

either rifle will do the job, one just gives me a little more wiggle room on the day's they see better than I do.

I use both 22-250 55 gr 243 70gr for coyotes the 243 can be loaded up for deer and work well with light bulletts for varmintes buy as good as you can aford optics the thwack you hear from the 243 70gr hitting a coyote is unmistakeable you will be a varmit hunter .

Your .223 is fine, though perhaps a bit overkill if you plan on eating the rabbits. (Or use FMJ loads in the .223 for them.) No need for anything bigger. I own a .22-250 and a .243, but shoot the .223 the most, by far. I only break out one of the others when the range gets past 300 yards or the barrel of the .223 gets too hot on a prairie dog town. I have a CZ-527 American in .223 that is just about as light and handy as a rimfire. One of those in .22 Hornet would be a good rifle for walking in the woods for varmints. I use mine for walking around and shooting ground squirrels or jack rabbits and save the heavy barreled stuff for long range work.

You already have the perfect gun for a "walking" varmint rifle. I used a TC Contender carbine 16" barrel in 223 for the same purpose in PA for summer groundhogs. Today I'd pick my 22 Hornet and just stalk closer, or my 204 Ruger and shoot them at a distance.

I would think the .223/5.56mm would be the perfect starter varmint rifle. There is a seemingly endless choice of rifles and ammo loadings available everywhere. Plus it is just flat out effective.

For Pennsylvania I would suggest a bolt action in .243 Winchester with a 22 to 24 inch barrel. Factory ammo is readily available in both lightweight varmint bullets and heavier medium game weights. That way, if you get the desire you could use the same rifle for deer hunting (PA has .24 cal minimum for deer last I checked).

And while PA has deep German roots, the PA Dutch preferred red and black wool plaids for their classic hunting attire. But grab whatever you like and get hot.

Consider a CZ527 carbine in 221 fireball. It is a nice light carbine, easy to carry, very accurate, easy to load for. It is my walking varminter of choice. I have 6mm br, 22-250, 223AI...... and when I head out knowing I will be spending a lot of time walking I always grab the little CZ. Mine will deliver 3/4" accuracy with most loads and hovers at 1/2" with its favorite loads, it will go 3400 fps with 40 gr vmax's and nicely hits 3000-3100 fps with 50 gr bullets while having a pretty miserly powder consumption. Which allows you to shoot quite a bit without heating up the barrel.My daughters love using it for rockchucks. It fits the bill perfectly for a walking varminter.

The fireball is a nice round between the Hornet and 223. Didn't know CZ chambered it. The Hornet is a specialist round with many attendant limitations, but loads of fun within it's capability. After lots and lots of years dicking around with this and that I think everyone should have a 223, then a 22-250/Swift to learn that speed really does kill, and finally go down the ladder to the 20s, 17s or the Hornet for challenge shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by EDELWEISS:
I started this quest because I wanted to go hiking in the woods and fields with a rifle, not so much for HUNTING Per Se; but just to wander and IF a shot presented then by all means Id want to take it AND if it happened to say be rabbit season, then all the better.

After discussing this with a my buddy we decided, VARMINT Hunting was the best legal description of what we wanted. I actually think of it more as STALKING, although I realize its not the same as pursuing a Chamois in the Alps. Now that Im getting into it, I do like the idea of Varmint Hunting as well; but I think (for now anyway, I'll use a set of "Sticks" rather than a Bi-pod. Im also likely to be the guy dressed in lederhosen....

Edelweiss, just be aware that you may only use rimfire rifles for small game hunting. Groundhogs, crows, fox, coyotes, and other varmints are listed as such in the regulations, and do permit use of centerfire rifles, in MOST of the management units, but not all. For example, in Chester and Montgomery Counties, the Game Commission does not allow use of centerfire rifle for any hunting.

I do not own a bi pod for any of my rifles. I hunt varmint and use a set of home made x sticks based on the bifor pod set up on Varmint Al's site.
I don't care to be in high grass and not be able to get the rifle above it with a bi pod where the shooting sticks excel I feel is I can set up on a big round bale of hay or the edge of a swamp in uneven ground and have a rifle rest so easy to set in an instant.


Al

An interesting selection and read here. I will throw my hat in the ring too by saying that your first rifle is a good serviceable choice. Like the others, I have a small stable from a 221 Fireball Remington 700 Classic, a 223/556 White Oak, and a pair of Custom 22-250s for varmints. The two go to rifles for me are the 221 and my Sako 22-250. Both are more of a walking rifle and do the job very well. Start with what you have and invest in some serious range time shooting from field positions out to 300m so you know how it performs and you will be pleasantly supprised.

My favorite walking varmint rifle was a Contender with a 21" barrel. It was short light and accurate as hell in .223. With a good 50 grain bullet I could shoot Squirrels, Crows, Chucks, Coyotes etc. out to 300 yards. I sold that rifle for a down payment on an AR. I'ts not quite as light as the contender but I can sure shoot more. It has a 16 inch barrel and a collapsable stock. It fits on the front rack of my 4 wheeler without sticking out either side. I like it as well or better than the single shot but at my age the weight becomes more and more important if I am on foot.

My favorite varmint caliber was and still is the 222 Remington, never felt the need for more.

I do have a wonderful little 6x45 custom rifle on a Sako L-461 action, I use it for coyotes, Rock Chucks, and have mostly hunted a lot of deer and antelope with it over the years, but on P-dog hunt or Rock chuck hunt I take them both, as barrels can get hot in a hurry..

As a matter of fact, I don't see that you need anymore than that short .223, pretty wicked combo in my opinion for a walk about varmint gun..and Ive shot a number of deer with it using the 60 gr. Hornady SP or HP...Your good to go..

Start with the 223. In your half of the country there are not many farmers/landowners who appreciate the extra noise a Swift or 243/6mm makes as it echoes over a couple mile area.

Almost 60 years of varmint hunting. The .204 Ruger caliber is my favorite. Remington 700 is my favorite rifle for varmints.

I'd say a CZ527 in .223 would suit you very well.

Shoot accurately with lots of ammo choices so easy to feed

The first rule to picking a Varmint caliber is that there are no rules! 223 has been one of the most popular Varmint calibers for a long time for good reason. On the other hand, if someone reloads then they could use their 30-06 for Varminting to very satisfactory effect. All you need are the right bullets, and they are out there! (Did someone say one gun for every need)? Dive on in and have fun! No flies whatsoever on the .223 though..

First, if you reload, there is a world of varmint calibers..20 vartarg, 20 practical and on up..If you don't your 223 or 243 are great calibers for varmints and should cover the gamut of varmints.

The 222 is still the best of the bunch IMO..I still have the one I purchased when Rem first came out with the caliber in the 600...Like the 30-06 it is the stancard by which all else is judged..I have owned and shot most of them, they are all good..The .223, 22-250 not to mention the 220 Swift..but for me the 222 is king.

With a good shooting load and lots of practice a .223 with 55gr or such the range and shooting can be learned well enough it'll just about shock people watching how far you can hit a prairie dog.
For years that's all I had and showed quite a few guys that thought they were great shooters what it and I could do. 400yds hits were seldom missed. Some day I'd like to take a range finder out and check how far I was shooting one day with one of those "good shots" watching. I'd bet it was over 600 yds fairly easy. That was one summer when I was doing a lot of it and seldom missed even on the real long shots.

Takes a whole lot of shooting practice though and I'm no longer that good as I haven't been doing it in 5-6 years now. Hell of it is, now I have 5 varmint rifles, 4 smaller yet. .17x28 in two, 20Var Targ, another that's supposed to be fantastic. The VT and one of the .17x28's are Cooper M 38's.

Once in awhile Dad and I would take his .375 H&H with 230gr out and pop a few p/dogs just for the hell of it and keeping in practice. Until I got the Sako L461 .222mag I never used anything other than a .22 and ;30'06 with 110gr loads.
I feel the best practice a hunter can do with a big bore hunting rifle is use it on prairie dogs. You'll sure learn your rifle that way.

George

I have guns chambered in .204, .222, .223, .220 Swift, and .243.

For all around guns, the .223 and .204 rule IMO. For long range shooting, nothing can touch a Swift or .22-250 with a fast twist shooting 80 grain bullets.

p/dogs are my game......my bases covered with....

17M2..20 Vartarg...20-222..20 Practical...

6BR......223 AI.....all using either V max or

Nosler BT varmint boolits....the 20's are where its

at in a p/dog rig.....