I'm looking for another left handed varmint rifle in 223. I can get the Rem700VSF (Syn, Blue) for about $820 or the Savage 12VLP (SS fluted, low profile, laminate) for about $650. (California prices suck)

I was poking around in the safe and figured out that I don't own a Remington 700 at all (788 & XP yes, but no 700). I do have a few Savages already and the 22.250 and 243 seem to be used all of the time for varminting because they shoot so well. I also like the stainless for the easy care factor.

The question is should I go the extra $170 just to have a 700 or go with the stainless and better trigger on the Savage?

Fjold: I have as yet to see ANY Savage with a trigger (Accu-Trigger or not - or custom triggers) that compares in any way favorably to - let alone be superior to what can be quickly and cheaply done to a Remington trigger (by a qualified person!).
If you want to know how I really feel about Sausage triggers... I mean Salvage triggers... I mean Savage triggers, I will tell ya they are hokey, clubby, wobbly, inconsistent pieces of crap!
Its another reason I have NEVER owned a Savage bolt action Rifle!
Don't get me started there!
I would go with the Remington LH Model for sure!
And I saw one at one of the Gunshops I have been to recently for way less than $820.00! I have several left handed friends and when I see the left handed Remingtons I always take note and pass the info along to them!
If I recall correctly the Remington Bolt action leftie Varminter was $579.00. Now I just have to prompt whats left of my brain into remembering where it was? The one I saw was the VS Model though and I do not show it as being currently listed in the Remington 2,005 catalog! Only the VSF Model. Hmmm....?
Maybe they were previously offered in the VS Model and this one has shown up?
Good luck with whichever you choose! But please, do not compare those clubby POS Salvages with a Remington 700.
You would be bucks WAY ahead to invest in the Remington, should the need ever arise to resell your Rifle - AND it would re-sell MUCH quicker (it being a Remington)! This, I know for a fact!
More later - I have to go brush my teeth and get the bad taste out of my mouth!
Savages - YUCK!!!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Fjold,

I feel Rem 700's are the best thing for VARMINT guns (cz's, mausers & M70's for hunting guns) I have two heavy barrelled re 700's and a third I traded, one is on lay away that I own (neally ready to be picked up....its a pss .300 RUM ) the other a .243, they just shoot so good and there is so many parts for them. I have a rifle basix LV-1 in my .243 and first group went under .5"moa with very little load developement !! my vssf 22.250 that I traded on the .243 shot under .5"with win supreme factory stuff. For accuracy & Varmint guns I accept them whole heartedly !!

I have a new found love now for heavy barrelled rem varmint guns decked out with Badger Ordanance mounting gear and VX111 leupold scopes with the new Varmint reticle

In Australia Savages are not looked upon as favourably as rem 700's I am not sure of the reasons for this as people on this forum like the a lot.

Hey Varmint Guy, don't sugarcoat it, tell us how you really feel.


I haven't found a major gun maker yet that I hate. (I never understood the whole Ford vs Chevy thing either) I buy the gun that fits my needs and wants at the time regardless of brand. I've never bought a gun that was a lemon yet, (although my Ruger MkII in 7 Mag came awful close before I discovered Barnes TSX bullets).

Actually, I shouldn't have said anything about triggers as my two Savage varmint guns have the Sharpshooter Supply 14 oz.- 2 Lb triggers on them adjusted to 16 oz. and they are SWEET! Although the adjustable trigger on my Savage 300WSM was one of the easiest triggers to get to 3Lb and a lot better (out of the box) than any of the new Rugers and Remingtons that I've tried.

I never buy guns for resale factor because I always upgrade something, bedding, triggers, crowns, barrels, etc and that's just throwing money away when it selling time. Instead, I do my best to wear them out.

My Savage 110CL 243 is on it's third barrel, second trigger, second scope and second stock. I'd never get out 1/4 of the money that I put into it but I'm way ahead in all of the fun that I've had with it!

Buy the Savage and us the money differents to pay for the upgrades.

My new 12VBSS _s .223 Savage was a really pleasant surprise.In accuracy (repeatability) with an ambient temp barrel to a hot barrel continuous shoting it surpasses my expectations and shots better than I do.The trigger is more desireable to me than my Ruger varminter .243 or my CZ.222 set trigger.I'll be testing it with heavey for caliber bullets shortly.

I will also modify the stock especially in the grip area to better fit me.

Fjold,

For what it is worth, my son-in-law purchased a Savage in 22-250. I bedded it and it is shooting in the 2s. Two buddies of mine just purchased Savages in 22-250 to take pd hunting and I bedded both of them also. Both are shooting consistently in the low 3s. If they had put better optics on them I believe they also would be shooting in the 2s. And.......I really like a stainless gun.

Good luck with your decision.

Jim

I own both... 2 Remingtons, and one Savage 12 BVSS...

I'd have to say both have their good points over the other...but I feel both would be a wash...

Both are as accurate as a varmint shooter would ever desire...

The big toss up would be what you want to shoot for bullets in one.. the Savage has the one in 9 twist which will stabilize bullets out to 75 grains easily... That is a big reason that I just bought mine...

However, I am a 223, and 22.250 Slut....

I own 8 (223s) and 4 ( 22.250s)......

Those 22 caliber rounds are just plain fun to shoot and load for and are both recoil and wallet friendly...

My Suggestion if you are on the fence post.. Savages are considered hot right now and have been for the last couple of years....

Personally I'd go with the Savage and shoot the crap out of it for a year or two, and then trade it off for the Remington..

I am finding out that on my Varmint rifles.. if they are not that old, one can shoot the daylights out of them and then trade them toward a new one, in 2 yrs or so and loose 50 to $100.00 on them.. Looking at the cost of rebarreling etc.... I have decided it is not a bad way to go..

One my new Savage, I figure I will keep it 5,000 rounds or so... and them horse trade it in for a new one...

Just my way at looking at it....

cheers
seafire

l wonder how come all the BR guy's don't jump on these .2 savage's
maybe it's the BS guy's that can get them...
Jon D.

JD;

YOU really tried a Savage or you just being sarcastic and relating heresay..

I have only bought one, and I am still working on it right now, only having about 85 rounds thru it now...

However, I have seen others who have them at the range and they have really proven to be pretty darn accurate considering their costs... another rifle that is the same way is a HOWA....

Welcome to the forum....

We do have some real BS slingers in here.. but we also have the majority of guys that are pretty straight forward and honest...

I won't take you long to figure out which two lists that most of the regulars fall into...

cheers
seafire

quote:

I do have a few Savages already and the 22.250 and 243 seem to be used all of the time for varminting because they shoot so well.

SAVAGE!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jon D:
l wonder how come all the BR guy's don't jump on these .2 savage's
maybe it's the BS guy's that can get them...
Jon D.

Waall, it looks like I'm being called out....

Guess I'll just mosey on over to the motel room and start cleanin' up the shootin' irons....

Jim

Sorry guy's had bad night last night..yes l have
had three savage's all heavy barrel's,1-22-250
1-308 and 1-708 got them New. the 708 was the
best of them,the 22-250 was the last and the worst.two inches at 100.the action was bad,
savage was told...they said,more or less,
tough shit..So that was my last Savage.l
would love a new LP in 223 but will not
do it..

new remingtons=boring!!! JMO of course, get something cool like a CZ or Tikka. The new remmys just arn't anything to get excited about, I have an older 270 I hunt big game with but its prolly the only remmy I will own. CZ's old brnos, would like to try a tikka or savage are much more my fancy

Ya know Cummins.. Remingtons are kinda boring.. you are right...
But it sure doesn't have to do with the lack of accuracy on their varmint guns... I don't pick them out first for a hunting rifle.. but there are no flies on their varmint stuff....

Boringly consistently, accurate and dependable is kind appealing to some of us Boring Old Dependable Varmint shooters out there!

cheers
seafire

I own a Rem VSF LH in 308 and im extremely happy with it. Really accurate, great balance in my hands, action is pretty smooth and the trigger is creep free and breaks at just under 2 lbs after tweaking!
Great rifle!
Don really care for Savage rifles as those ive seen are really crude and their syn stocks are horrible!
I have been trying to get an older model savage in 222 to shoot for a friend of mine and that thing just does not go under 2,5" at 100m whatever i feed it! Plus the trigger is THE worst trigger i have ever pulled!

Cummins cowboy

quote:

new remingtons=boring!!! JMO of course, get something cool like a CZ or Tikka. The new remmys just arn't anything to get excited about, I have an older 270 I hunt big game with but its prolly the only remmy I will own. CZ's old brnos, would like to try a tikka or savage are much more my fancy

CZ and Tikka are great(own a Tikka and have had few Brnos) but where are the left hand rifles???
Ok CZ has the CZUSA M3 rifle in left hand but thats no varminter only chabered in Wsm calibers!
Fjold is looking for LH thus rules them out!

With regards Ben Remfan
Iceland

I've had good luck with both.

Being a target shooter, I end up rebarrelling rifles more often than most folks and I like the Savage's method. I'm a southpaw too. My match rifles are 700's but the hunters are Savages, CZ's, etc.

Savages are less expensive, come in 956 variations, shoot as well as any and have the options of changing bolt heads for different families of cartridges. What's not to like? Buy it to shoot it - gopher rifles aren't "investments" like a Krieghoff or Holland Best.

My two cents

Sako: The 222 that you relay the group sizes for is the worst shooting 222 Remington I have ever heard of!
Yikes!
Something is wrong with that Rifle!
I wonder if it is a tipped or tilted crown or bad crown?
Has it ever been re-crowned?
Yikes again!
As a matter of fact that is the worst shooting Savage (of any caliber) I have ever heard anyone speak of!
Something is glaringly wrong for it to shoot that poorly. I will leave the real troubleshooting to those that are more familiar with the older Savages in that caliber but I am sure its not your handloads.
I would be greatly saddened when I buy a new 222 and its first test loads don't break 1.000" for 5 shots at 100 yards. That has never happened to me (buying a poor shooting 222!) so I am shocked by your dilemma.
Let me illustrate with the last 3 purchased 222 Remington Rifles I have bought and the FIRST 3 five shot groups (load testing) fired with each!

#1: Remington 700 Classic = .524", .571" & .613"

#2: Remington 700 Classic = .426", .451" & .631"

#3: Sako L-46 Varminter = .931", .907" (poor load!) & .581" (settled on this last load)

These loads were not even using fire formed brass! And I am sure by now you guys have fire formed brass to use!
Let me know if you need any load suggestions.
Keep after that "deuce"! I am sure we can figure out WHAT is wrong with it.
By the way I have a couple more 222 Varminters and one shoots in the 3's (Remington 40XB-BR) and the other (Remington 700V - older gun) shoots under .500" literally all the time under excellent range conditions!
Yeah lets perk up that Savage 222 for ya!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Don't get me started there!

Ready, Set...........

Frank don't get a Remington 223,the New Zealand police were so unhappy with theirs they cut them into pieces and dumped them at sea

James, as much as I love visiting your country, your government does some weird shit. It's kind of like ours on a smaller scale.

Left-handed, own Rems and Savages, like them both. The Savage synthetic stocks are trash due to the flexing of the forends. Either install a steel rod and epoxy the x#@% out of it, or replace it. The Savage trigger isn't that great no matter whether its the old one or the current one. Both shoot well. Pick the one YOU like.
An earlier post commented on the twists of the two, Rem=1/12, Savage 1/9. It just depends on what weight bullets you want to use. The lightweight ones seem to shoot better in the Rem, they heavy ones in the Savage.

For a factory stick the best shooting .223 I ever saw belongs to a friend of mine it's a Savage model 10 FP and will put 5 shots in under .2 if we do our part. No bedding only lightened the trigger pull. I was shocked when the first group I shot with it was . 263 and the next was .197. He consistently shoots low 2's and high 180' and 190's with it. These are all tailored handloads and has never shot any factory ammo through it.
Now being said that I love remington's like no other but I would not hesitate to buy a 223 in the model 10 FP Savage.

VG, You have caused me to come up with another reason to visit you, my friend!! My blood runs "GREEN" with allegiance to John Deere and Remington!! HOWEVER, the Savage VLP .204 needs to go head to head with your Remington .204!!(and we won't even take the other companys (that begins with "R") offering to the shoot!! Maybe I got a good one!! But from shooting several different Savage configurations over the last couple years.....those folks have got a good product!!! I won't even mention the "Stevens 200" that I took off one of my dealer/customers shelf for testing in 25-06!! You wouldn't beleive it anyway!! I will say the trigger(non-accutrigger) would not register on the trigger pull guage!!...ntil I dinked with it!! 54 oz was the best I could do with it and still have it functional and safe!! ..... .7's with factory, green box, Remington 100 grain loads(barrel break-in) and "you have to look REAL close at the target to discern the "3 bullets went thru that hole(.147") using the first handloaded ammo(75 grain Hornady VMAXS ahead of 50 grains of VARGET)...and it is repeatable!! (maybe not in the .1's but .3's are acceptable for a pencil barreled,carry rifle!!! If gas get's down to sub $2.00 and I can live long enough, you and I will treat some varmints to a field day!!! Charlie(GHD) PS: One of the reasons that the SAVAGES shoot so well is the fact that they still "pull buttons" on their barrels!!! They never had enough money to buy one of the high follutin "hammer forging machines!!"