Sorry if this has been beat to death. So buddy and I want to refine our coyote rigs a bit. I've been using my 30-06 or my 12 guage with buckshot. We decided to get a bit more sophisticated and are mulling over the merits of the above calibers.

I've surmised that the 22-250 isnt all that "pelt friendly." but then neither is the 30-06 I also don't reload so I'm looking for an off the shelf varmint bullet that performs well with minimum pelt damage.

Anyone care to offer some opinions?

Thanks

I have both (actully I have a swift but pritty much the same as the 22-250)

I have a bunch of .223's actully seven, not quite sure how I ended up with that many but anyway I am fond of the caliber and that would be my choice but both have there advantages and disadvantages and Im sure others here will be pointing these out.

What I like about the .223 espeacally for you since you don't reload is that Ammo is much cheaper and availble by lots of thousands. The military hard ball ammo although not as accurate but good for hides and as long as you stay away from the ss109 the accuracy will be good enough.

It depends on how much you shoot. Just for example Remington 22-250 Remington 45-Grain Jacketed Hollow Point is 75 cents per round. And the same bullet in a 223 is 70 cents per round. Like AKshooter said, there’s a lot better deals on 223 ammunition then that out there.

Neither one is not a “pelt gun” round but they’re not bad, either one is better than your 30-06.

The questions are:

How much do you want to spend on ammo?
How much muzzle blast do you want to put up with?

I can’t see any real reason for not owning both.

Here’s a graph of how they compare to each other using Nosler book (#6) information with the same bullet (50-gr. BT) and maximum velocities for both. 22-250 (blue), 223 (red).

I have both plus a .243 that is set up for varmint use also.

I think that I'm enjoying the .223 the most right now and if you use factory ammo in the lighter bullet weights like 40-45 the performance is almost the same as the 22-250.

I've been using 40g in my .223 and 50g in my 22-250 for bullets and they all seem to work wonderfully. My only other advice would be to avoid hitting large bones (shoulders and hips) that cause these bone splinters to become secondary fragments and cause heck on the pelts.

Ammo availability is greater for the .223 and most likely will always be so due to it's military adoption.

Either one would do you proud.

quote:

if you use factory ammo in the lighter bullet weights like 40-45 the performance is almost the same as the 22-250.

Teancum, is right. Use a lighter bullet in the 223 and it matches up will (Except for energy) with the 22-250.

Using information from Hornady, the 223 Remington with a 40gr. Vmax and a 22-250 Remington with a 50 gr. Vmax. Here’s how they stack up. 223 with the 40 grain (Blue) and the 22-250 with a 50 grain (Red).



I would use either one. but they’re not really the same though.

Ok say I'm not much more than a 300 yard shooter. Would the 223 retain enough energy for the 'yotes at that range? It looks like it's definately not a 500 yard killer.

thanks

quote:

Ok say I'm not much more than a 300 yard shooter. Would the 223 retain enough energy for the 'yotes at that range?

Yes, it has enough energy, all the way to 500 yards but it’s not a big time killer after 300. Me and my Swift have problems at 400. I have never shot a coyote at 500. Hell, I feel good if I nail them down at 250.

if you don't reload there Chef, the 223 is definitely the more prudent choice..

I know ONE instance does not make a proven point..

I dropped a coyote at 725 yds with a 223, shooting a 60 grain Sierra HP if memory serves me correctly...

while that sounds like quite the feat, let me step in a play Paul Harvey and tell ya 'the rest of the story"...

after a range session, I had a few rounds left, so as always ( with a 223), I shoot them at this rock that sits out at exactly 723 laser ranged yards from the shooting benches..

this is on a gentling sloping hill down range..
so I know exactly how many clicks up on the target turrent to go to dust off the rock..

well I do one or two shots, and all of a sudden out comes walking this coyote with the luck of Wiley Coyote..

I don't know if he was trying to check out what the noise was, or his luck was just that bad..

well since I was "sighted in", I just swung the crosshairs onto our unlucky coyote and pulled the trigger..

suddenly he is spinning in circles biting his ass.. so evidently a little wind blowing..

so I chambered my last round..aimed about a coyote half link to his right, and pulled the trigger again..

this time, he went flying end over end, shook a few moments and then there was no movement..

so I can verify at 725 yds, a 223 can take down a coyote with proper shot placement.. or at least once it can..

so the world was short one less little fawn muncher..

Good shot Seafire.

Until the bullet hits the ground, they can kill.

Yes the .223 will have enough energy to kill coyotes at 300 yards. I have taken about 8-10 at that distance with my .223 but my velocity with the handloads is pushing a 40g at 3925fps. Those velocities are getting up there for a .223, though.

I have taken one coyote at 523 yards with a .223 right before dark when there was little or no wind and down he went.

While the .223 can take coyotes at those extended ranges, the hardest part is hitting them. They aren't very big at that distance and even with scopes we have today, so many times the wind is a factor and could cause more misses than the elevation.

The 223 will serve you well at those distances out to 500 yds it still has as much energy as a 9mm handgun at point blank. I have shot most small to medium game animals in NA with the 223 and it has always performed well. Some people are into the ultra velocities and I have a few of these myself. But I still like the 223 because less muzzle blast and noise. Some of the others are brutal on the ears in hunting situations with hearing protection. 55BT round from the various ammo companies work very well depending on the twist in the barrel say 1 in 9-12" JM2CW

I would recommend the 223 also. That's what I use in a lightweight walk around rifle for calling coyotes. Most of my shots are fairly close, under 100 yards. I have had a few targets of opportunity out at 250 yards or so, usually when I packing into or out of the calling area I'm hitting.

The biggest battle at the extended range it getting into a steady field hold position fast enough to get a good shot off. If most of your shots will be under 300 yards, to me it would be a "no-brainer", get the 223. The biggest deciding factor for me is that you don't reload. As was said, much better ammo selection in 223. You may have to try a few different factory loads to find one your rifle shoots well.

Don't worry about how "impressive" the numbers look on paper 22-250 vs. 223, I've never met a coyote that could read ballistic tables.

The .223 is much milder, the extra blast and recoil of the 22-250 is really not needed--sorta like stepping up to a .300 mag when you have a 30-06. I do like the 22-250 though.

I have to agree with you carpetman 1, it is like the 300 Win / 30-06 argument.

Slowpoke, the numbers are not that impressive for one over the other. I was more impressed with the first graph than the second. The small 223 holds its own fairly will with a 50-grain bullet.

None of this ballistic table’s stuff is the gospel in the real world. It’s just a point of reference.

The 223 is a hard round to beat. I’ve had no problems with it.

I have to admit, I would never be without either..

When I set up for volume shooting of sage rats or prairie dogs, I set up with 4 rifles on the top of my shooting bench or off the hood of my truck..

I have two 223s, that I alternate between every 15 shots or so.. to allow the barrels to cool.. then I have a 22.250 sitting there on deck, for those shots beyond 250 yds that present themselves..and finally a 22 LR with a low powered scope to take care of those pesky little ones that like to pop up in front of the truck at distances of like 10 to 40 yds or so..

Seafire,

When it's prairie dogs in the cross hairs, I take a 17 HMR, a 17 Rem, and my little 223 for the close shots, my 6x47 (not Lapua) and 22-250 for the mid range shots, and my 6.5x284 (and soon a 243 win I'm working on) for the long range shots.

I still prefer a light weight sporter in 223 for 'yotes however.

Sounds like I'll get a 223 for myself for christmas. What make model would you guys suggest? I was thining about a savage, but not too sure about the model yet.

thanks for the replies!

seafife, I just loved that story. 223-22-250 its about a horse apiece i would like a light weight 223 but every time one cume up for sale it had a heavy barrel now i have 3-223 I have hunted fox and coyotes since the late70s with 22-250 with 52 to 55gr manny at over300 yds my old huntin budy used a model 70 in 223 with 60 gr bullets hardley any got away from him.maybe 223would be alittle handier with better barrel life.you should think about starting to reaload .

I'd love to reload but I just don't have the time for it. I spend most of my time playing with archery stuff and hunting. I'm also avoiding flyfishing because it'll just become another "thing" to try and find time for.

There is only so much time in a person’s life. I hear you.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Yes the .223 will have enough energy to kill coyotes at 300 yards. I have taken about 8-10 at that distance with my .223 but my velocity with the handloads is pushing a 40g at 3925fps. Those velocities are getting up there for a .223, though.

I have taken one coyote at 523 yards with a .223 right before dark when there was little or no wind and down he went.

While the .223 can take coyotes at those extended ranges, the hardest part is hitting them. They aren't very big at that distance and even with scopes we have today, so many times the wind is a factor and could cause more misses than the elevation.

Good post.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Sounds like I'll get a 223 for myself for christmas. What make model would you guys suggest? I was thining about a savage, but not too sure about the model yet.

thanks for the replies!

. I would get a Ruger M77 mkII Tacticle with the 20" barrel , or the Target rifle with the 26" barrel . They both have the 1 in 9 " twist ....... Next I would get the CZ 527 Varmint Target .......It has a fully adjustable trigger as does the Ruger Tacticle . But the CZ also has the single set feature . With the HS Precision stock it is a very sweet rifle ...

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Until the bullet hits the ground, they can kill.

What he said...lol

One of these years, we'll all chip in and buy a .204 for seafire and he can spend countless hours developing loads for it using Blue-Dot, or maybe just listen to GHD and load 27.5 grains of A2520 and the 39 grain Sierra's ...........out to 300 yards.........eats up the 223 and the 22-250 for accuracy and IT'S GOT ENOUGH ENERGY to do the job!!(just a dig on seafire........he can take a joke!!) The 223 would probably be the "go too" round if not a reloader, not shooting over 300 yards and money consuince. It's lethal, it's accurate and it works. The additional muzzle blast of the 22-250(albeit the accuracy of this round and it's historical past and the GHD "Performer" award being bestowed upon it, it does not need to be implemented if only shooting 300 yards! Get yourself a good quality 223 and have fun. When you want to get serious about varmints.......especially volume varmints........get yourself a .204 and have fun. Or a 17 Fireball or other such stuff. When you want to see a "launch" at the the ranges you are shooting, get yourself a 22-250. Old Mr Gebby would be proud that people are still shooting his little ditty, the "22 Varminter". I like seafire cannot imagine a full varmint arsenal without a 22-250 included. It's almost in the fold of the 25-06 as most usefull all around chambering.............well it is included! .........limit me to two chamberings for all my shooting and the 25-06 would be number 1 and second choice would be the 22-250. The 260 Remington has a chance to overtake the others as an all around choice but field work is continuing. ....................now you see where all this leads! All of us has an opinion! Just like bodily orifices!! For you who wants to get a varminter and doesn't reload and who has limited experience........223 rules. Hope some of you got a kick out of the diatribe! GHD

Charlie,

I played with the 204, and did develop some blue dot load data for it with 32 and 40 grain V Maxes...

I have to admit, I don't see the need for a 204 still... but still have a desire to build a 20 BR...that just seems more practical to me... or speaking of practical.. the 20 Tactical makes much more sense to me..

but with a light quality bullet, such as Bergers 30 and 35 grain HP in 224 bore, I can make a 223 match a 204 any day, and put those same bullets in a 22.250, and now we are talking
3800 fps with Blue Dot... and up to about 4700 to 4800 fps with regular powders...

eventually I'll do a 17 Fireball.. but I see that round as a short barreled ( 20 inches) heavy magnum contour affair..the most practical rig I see that is, belongs to the Rem Predator in that chambering...

I am also starting to research where some are starting to put barrel nuts on Remington 700s, just like Savage does, to be able to swap barrels on 700's just like you can on a Savage...with a couple of short action 700s, with .378 and .473 bolt faces.. I can see a "disneyland of fun" potential just sitting in my gun cabinet!

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
...Hope some of you got a kick out of the diatribe! GHD

Always Charlie!
All of that and no mention of the 6mmRem? NO EXCUSE...

The CZ 527 Varmint is the bomb. Love mine. Would like one in 22 Hornet to go along with my 223.

The Savage M12 Long Range Precision Varmit .22-250 fast twist with heavy for caliber bullets.

Have and use both......go with the 22-250.

I also have used both. If the wind is blowing grab the 22-250 here is my latest. Remmy 700 VTR no brake 24"barrel Lewey QD Manger 30mm tube 4.5-14 50mm

For sure start with the .223. After hunting with it a couple of years you can then decide if you want to add another caliber to your arsenal. I would buy a savage with the accu-trigger. They are a best value for the buck.

I've got both. Both are very accurate rounds. I like 60gr Sierras in both for accuracy. Assuming you are a good shot,the big difference is the 223/5.56 is good to 300yds or so; with the 22-250, if you can see it, you can kill it. BobG in VA

I have several 223's and one 22-250.
Basically, the 22-250 is a long range rifle. I shot one for 30 years shooting groundhogs in PA.
But, it has a big muzzle blast. The 223 is more shooter friendly with far less muzzle blast.
Both are accurate, and there is a place for each in the Universe. 465 yards is my longest kill on a Chuck with the 22-250, so it will reach out and touch things.
It's really a matter of choice which one you go with. But, hunting in settled areas would drive me to the 223, or, better yet, a 222.
Incidentally, I have the following 22 centerfire rifles in the inventory, so my words are based on experience w/r 22 CF rifles:
22 Hornet
218 BEE
222 Rem
223
222 Mag
22 BR
22-250

FWIW,

Don

Well today, a good reason to pick up a 223 over a 22.250 hit me..

I am starting to find small rifle primers in stock..

large rifle primers are still scarce to non existent!

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
I also have used both. If the wind is blowing grab the 22-250 here is my latest. Remmy 700 VTR no brake 24"barrel Lewey QD Manger 30mm tube 4.5-14 50mm

Where did you find a VTR with no break? I would love to have one in a .223 but all I have found have a break.

Cabelas has an Exclusive with Remmington. You have to purchase the Rifle at Cabelas. If you purchase one check to see that it has the NEW X-Mark Pro Adjustable Trigger. Look at the bottom just in front of the trigger and there should be a visible allen head screw to adjust it. If not it is a X Mark trigger but the action has to be removed from the stock to adjust the trigger. They still might have an 08 model. The adjustable trigger came out in 09.

.223 is my vote.

22-250. i have the same feelings of the .223 as the the britsh army does go with a 1in12 or faster twist put a brake on it(one that u can remove and replace with a litte cap) and u will be able to watch the downrange show....out of a reg barrel rugerM77 and with factory 40gr v-max @ 4050fps = DRT here we go on the old .223/22-250 debate...

.204 Ruger

I am with Charlie and Buliwyf on this one. I love the 204 so much I just gave my 22-250 to my father-in-law. Figured he might shoot it as I just grab the 204 now. I have a 222 also but still always pick the 204. I like the 40 grain Bergers. Would be great for pelts with the lighter bullets.

I have witnessed several deer killed with the 204 so I am certain it will work on 'yotes. I know it is not the best deer medicine but sure works when it is what you have in your hands at the time.

Try one and you will like it!

God Bless, Louis