HOG, the 22-250 is the way to gofor shots out to 400-yards, and if you want to see the hit stop in at R.W.Hart and Son, Inc over in Nescopeck PA. They are into shooting groundhogs and that have a muzzle brake that will make the 22-250 feel like you are shooting a loud 22 Hornet. I also highly recomend that you look into a Remington 700 VS in 22-250. Talk to the good folks at Hart's and you will find that it is time well spent. OH! By the way go there in person. That is the only way that you will get the attention you need. They are very phone busy!

I have a 700vls with a 6x18x40 on it and it drops them real quick. But I just don't get the 10yrds of blood that I get with my 25/06. With some minnor work you can take the kick out of your 25/06. For starters I would put on a muzzel break and a good recoil pad. After that use some 75gr v-max and let'er rip. You should be able to control that a little better and still have your 25/06. Also with both of them done should be less than a new gun. That is what I would do. I love to shoot coyotes at long range and watch them splater across the desert out here in cali. I will be shooting yotes, deer, wild hogs, and ground hogs when I go to GA. It will also be with me when I go back home to Ohio this spring.

Ray

I have a Savage F112, single shot with a semi heavy 26" bbl in .223 that is just the ticket. Not too heavey, not too light; I can shoot it off hand for hogs out to 200 yds. or sit and take aim from a bi-pod or sitting postion if I want to shoot farther. I have a load worked up using the Hornady 40 gr. V-Max and IMR 4198 powder that I Chrony'ed at 3600 fps. To me, it is an ideal set up for the days when the wind isn't over 5mph, and I want to stroll the fields.

But I still love the 25-06 with the heavey bbl and the heavey Burris 6-24 scope, and Bi-pod. It's too heavy to shoot off hand or for strolling, but it is great for sitting and eating snacks while scoping a 400 yd field from under a shade tree!!

What with handloading and the heavy rifle you might as well get the 22-250 or a Swift. You can always load down a cartridge.

The .224" centerfires are just right for varmint hunting on farms. The concerns there are avoiding richocets and keeping the noise down and the 224's just right.

You don't really need AO on a varmint scope but if one comes with it then OK. A 4-12 is just right. We used to think that 12X was perfect before good variables were around but now with the coyotes it's good to be able to have a big field for in close shooting.

As far as seeing the shots hit a lot depends upon the person. Good advice above to lower the power however. I find that I can see 40 gr bullets hit more often that 50's out of the Swift.

Your lucky to have woodchucks. They are gone from CT and VT due to coyotes and maybe overhunting.

You might consider one of hot new 20's. I built a 20BR and absolutely love it. It will push a 33gr Hornady V-Max to over 4400fps. That turns a coyote inside out, and doesn't destroy the pelt. For smaller varmints, it's ideal. There is no recoil. You can easily see the muzzle flash encircling the muzzle and see the bullet make holes. No need for anyone to call misses for you in a prairie dog town. If you handload, any of the wildcat 20's are wonderful. If you want something offered by the factories, consider the new .204Ruger. A friend of mine built his 20 on the 222Mag case long before the .204 Ruger saw the light of day.

The 20's are fast and flat, and a lot of fun to shoot. Just another option to consider.

Thanks for all the input - keep it coming guys. A little more background. I got the 25-06 when I lived on my father-in-laws farm - wife and I were in the middle of selling one house and buying another. Great for deer hunting and pounding grizzlies on the farm.

After we moved, the 25-06 was really too much of a good thing. If you stand at my house and most of the local farms around here and do a 360 there are houses spread out everywhere. I can hear the muzzle blast smack off the windows of the neighbors house. I once scared one poor soul so bad that they stopped their car. Anyhow I have a 17 hummer that I use around the house (farm) but there are directions I can shoot that I could use more range. Futher some of the farms are a less populated so things open up a bit.

Basically I am looking for something between the 17 and the 25-06 which the 22 calipers seem to fit. I also think a heavy barrel would be better than a sporter weight for accuracy. Maybe I am wrong on this. Since I really walk and sit, I think a heavy barrel that is not too heavy would be good. The Savage 12BVSS and low profile are going to be a little heavy. I think a 12FVSS would fit the bill better. Other options???

Anyhow keep the opinions coming.

Hogsaw

hogsaw65,

I'm from Columbia Co. Pa. I've been shootin' groundhogs here since about 1960. You're on the right track with a 22 centerfire. I've had a lot of different ones over the years. Some of them get pretty loud. I had a Cheetah for awhile that no doubt would have cracked your neighbors windows not just rattled them. Anymore I've gone back to where I started in the early 60's: the 222. I also find myself taking my 17 Rem more and more. Both of them are in light Sakos. They shoot good and will kill a goundhog to 300 yds. I've never yet had a farmer( and I hunt a couple of dairy farms) complain about the noise from these two cartridges. And you are right about Pa. There are houses everywhere. I don't worry about richochets with these two either. If I were you I'd go with the 223 for Pa.

As for a telescope I always end up with my variables set at around 15X or 16X. The last scope I bought was a KT15 Weaver. A lot less money than good variable and it is a great scope. Lots of magnification to work on the gun at the bench and not so much that the mirage drives you crazy in the field.

knobmtn

The .22-250Rem. is my personal favorite for all varmint I hunt, but I honestly feel the .223 is a
better choice for woodchuck. I agree with the comments about Hart's. I drive to Washington a
lot and always manage to stop in and see Wally and his son Bob when I pass through Pennsylvania.
Two of my most accurate varmint rigs sport Hart stainless steel barrels. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

If you have the cash, check out the sako varmint rifles!
Great varmint rig in ,223, 22-250, 243 etc.

Just throw a zeiss or Nightforce on top and youre in buissnes!

My favorite two calibers are the .22-250 and .25-06 not always in that order. Normally I would be hell bent on suggesting the .22-250. But you can reach the dogs out to 400 yards with the faster twist in .223. I am a Rem 700 only type guy, i know some people love'em others hate'em. With that said, I would recomend an Rem. LTR in the .223 they are smaller with a 20" barrel. I'm not sure how much but mine feels a little lighter than my VS. I can't recall exactly how much they are but should be somewhere in the High 6's or low 7's new. We have it on film blastin dogs at and around 400 yrds.

Another good gun is the DPMS Lo Pro. I can't say alot about this gun, because i don't yet have one but will within a month. My Pal just bought one and wew!! That little gun had some serious accuracy out of the box. But it is a little heavier than the LTR.

Remember if you go with a .223 for those ranges to achievable with decent accuracy you will have to load heavier bullets and have the faster twist barrel. I load 69gr. Nosler cust. comp. over 24.3 gr. of Varget. The accuracy at 100yds. seems to stay fairly the same regardless of the brand of primer or brass.

I'm not saying the other guns are not good guns. I am just favorable to the Rems. I don't own any of the others. I just wanted to clear that up.

BTW the LTR recoil is the same as the VS even though the barrel is 4" shorter.

DuB

I'm in lancaster County just acroos the river. Way back in the day when I hunted groundhogs I used a model 70 sporter weight in 25.06 with a J Unertl 20x ultra target. I would be afraid to fire a high power around here now cause the yuppies would be callin the cops for sure. If I was going to get back into varmits I'd look at the Tikka varmit. I like wood and these are fairly inexspensive compared to the remingtons. just my 2 cents.....gl in your quest.

It seems like there are Rem 700 varmit guns, mostly in .223, for sale all the time on the classifieds here, if that helps you any Run a search, there might be some for sale right now, or recent that haven't sold.

Chalk up one vote for .17 Remington. Launch a sleek 30 grain HP and spot your shots. Also noted is a new offering in .17 from CZ.

Both calibers you are interested in are good choices. I think the .223 is a good 350 yd round which you might be able to stretch, and the .250 will go a little beyond that.
I think it boils down to whether you want to save money or have a little more performace. Either way you look at it your spending more money for the .250 whether it be reloading or buying shells from your local sporting goods store. IMO it doesn't really matter at 300 yds whether I'm holding over 7" or 10", I'd rather save a few bucks so I'd choose the .223. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

Since I'm using $4/lb. powder (that won't work well in .223) and $28-30 bullets in my .22-250, I don't think I could handload a .223 any cheaper. But if I were to use Russian ammo in the .223, I could shoot it cheaper than I could load it, I think. I've got a Mini-14 that I haven't loaded for in years. (I used to load for it all the time, just to be able to afford to shoot it.) But I'd never be able to tell the accuracy difference between really good ammo and really bad ammo in it. In a good bolt varmint rig it'd matter.

Dave-o,

I have looked at the CZ's a lot. I think they are nice guns for the money. I have also looked at the 527's but I have never seen the Kevlar or laminate varmint model - only the sporters. Does the stock have a wide varmint forearm or is it more like a sporter stock? The lighter weight and semi-heavy barrel would seem to make an ideal compromise. I wish you could get stainless steel and I am not sure about the backwards safety. I am a little scared of that. They do have the faster 1:9 twist so heavier than 55 gr. bullets are an option. I need to find one and feel her for fit. How does the muzzle blast compare to your old .22-250?? It is much less or only somewhat less??

Thanks for the help.

Hogsaw65

Hogsaw65,

Blue mountain sporting goods(used to be Shoemaker's) in Chambersburg has a laminate stocked varmint in stock. The kevlar stock is the same dimensions as the laminate, only a shade lighter in weight. I believe the forend is approx. 2" wide, flat bottom target style. Once I handled this rifle, I immediately NEEDED one ! Ride over to Blue mt. and handle one to see what you think. The safety is not as bad as it sounds. The blast seems significantly less than my 22-250, I'm not sure that the rifles being differenet didn't have some influence on this. The CZ is just much more comfortable for me to shoot. If you didn't look at Whittaker's website yet, I suggest you do. They have great prices and inventory, shipping is $10 to an FFL. If you don't have anybody local, let me know I've got a guy who'll only charge ten bucks for the transfer if you don't mind driving to Chambersburg.

Dave-o thanks for the info. I'll check out Blue Mountain. Chambersburg is not to far from where I work. I'll also look at Whittakers. As far as an FFL I would have to go through a gun shop so it will probably be more money than your contact. I would appreciate if you would send me an email with the details. Thanks.

So many lonely guns out there needing a good home. What's a guy to do?? Maybe I'll just have to take another stray in and keep the 25-06.

Hogsaw65