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well don't ask me why, but a few weeks ago, I got this gut feeling while looking at a container of 4064.. why not try it out in the old 223.. 4064 is not known to be 22 caliber friendly for a handloader, due to its bulky granulas... but yet it is accepted in the 22.250 and 220 Swift.. so why not the lowly 223? So I tried some and was I surprised! to say the least...In three different rifles, with all sorts of bullet weights between 50 and 60 grains...in all sorts of bullet types...from trendy plastic tipped varmint bullets, to the lowly bulk bullets.. all these combos, 4064 is still turning out the best and tightest groups these rifles have ever shot! and these are some good shooting rifles! played with charges from as low as 20 grains to 22.. 24 and 25 grain charges... you may give up a 100 to 150 fps MV maximums...but it more than makes up for it in tiny little groups.. I have never been a velocity hound, so I can live with that, for those increases in accuracy! Since it is not known as a 223 powder normally, I thought I would pass this on to my fellow varmint shooters.. looks like my next powder order will have to include 8 lbs of 4064 instead of one of the other powders...don't want to run out of a good thing! cheers seafire | ||
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I've shot a good deal of 4064 in the 3 22-250s I've owned over the years and it shot well in all of them. As to the 223, probably the only reason it's not mentioned in the same breath with the 222 or 22-250 is that very few are chambered in bolt action rifles and there is simply no way to produce benchrest accruacy in an AR semi-automatic action. I shoot the 22PPC and 222 and have not tried 4064 in either, but the PPC might have enough case capacity to produce some decent groups, particularly given a 40-X action and Shilen barrel. I'll have to give it a try. F. Prefect In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and generally been regarded as a bad move......Douglas Adams | |||
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fprefect, In case you haven't checked lately, pretty much any company that produces bolt action rifles CHAMBERS models in 223! As far as the statement about BR accuracy from AR type rifles, to tell the truth there are probably not many commercial rifles produced which would come close to being in the "benchrest accuracy" levels that it takes to compete. And as to the accuracy acheivable in todays heavy barreled, fast twist AR's chambered in 223 and a lot of other chamberings also, the accuracy to compete with the turnbolts is there!! Actually the AR platform and all the work that has been done with them will astound the average turnbolt afficianado in the accuracy department. GHD Groundhog Devastation(GHD) | |||
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 TEN SHOT .25 INCH GROUP FROM A 16 INCH HEAVY BARRELED AR-15 AND I AM ONLY A NOVICE RELOADER | |||
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Got a flyer there, trash-- at 3 o'clock. Try harder next time... | |||
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We can assume a 100 yd distance? Beautiful group! Good shooting! | |||
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In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and generally been regarded as a bad move......Douglas Adams | |||
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Yes 110 yards paced. I do an extra ten cause I don't want to cheat. Did I mention it is a sixteen inch barrel? First load I ever developed for it. | |||
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fprefect, I was not really meaning to get in a dig or upset anyone with my post. And yes you are somewhat correct in sort of suggesting that the BR societies that exist for small guns/short ranges(100-300 yards) should change their name to the "PPC Clubs!" I was there when the 6x47 was the dominator! I was one of the dominators! I still shoot the chambering. I still also shoot the parent cartridge in a 700 action, 40X barrel and original 40X BR stock. 40 grainers or 52 match bullets, whichever I want will always make you wonder why you own anything else when it comes to punching paper! A legitimate .1 gun, a "you can screw up a bit and shoot .2's and anyone never touching it or seeing it before can be a .3 shooter with it! I have .204's that do in the .2's regularly, a 17 Fireball that is a .3 gun and the 6mm and .260's reach a helluva long way out there and still turn in astounding "paper numbers"..........and they kill vermin a long ways off too!! I just sold a RRA 24", 8 twist heavy varminter last week that would shoot 75 grain Hornady HP's into little clusters at 300,400,500 and 600 yards. Why did I sell it? Doesn't really trip my trigger!! Too many other turnbolts in the arsenal that I love to reload for and dink with. None of them that would really rank high in the BR circles but they are generally better rifles than most people are shooters. But it did along with some of my experiences with an AR builder open my mind up as to what can be done with the AR platform!! And back to the BR accuracy deal.......I figured out a long time ago that we as shooters of production guns or semi-custom guns are not going to find the "Holy Grail" of accurracy........."0's" with these rifles. And the other thing I learned was that the folks who excell at the BR game had two things that I was lacking............TIME AND MONEY!! GHD Groundhog Devastation(GHD) | |||
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trashcanman, I shoot that same load in two different 223 rifles, and two different 222 Mag rifles, and it shoot accurately in all four rifles. I consider it to be one of the BEST loads for that class of rifles. I use WSR primers to complete the load details for my rifles. | |||
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Trashcanman Very impressive shooting. Have you shot this load over a chronograph? Keep punching those groups!!!!! | |||
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Very nice group, Trashcan. Bet the 3 o'clock wart was the 10th shot, wasn't it?  Regards, hm 2 Chronicles 7:14: If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. | |||
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Dang it Seafire, I just used up the last of my 4064 on some 375 H&H loads, wasn't going to buy anymore becasue I'm trying to cut back on my powder choices Looks like I'm going to have to get some more now | |||
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H 380 works well too | |||
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Seafire, most of the manuals I have list 26 grains as max with 52-55 grain bullets. Did you try that much powder? Just curious as I need to load some up this weekend. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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yeah, you can probably crap and extra grain in there... but you will be right at the brim in my 223 brass... backing off a grain to 25 is not going to sacrifice that much velocity... If I want straight velocity, then I'd be using another powder... but I prefer the accuracy, over another 100 to 200 fps on a round that most of my shooting is at 200 yds or less... | |||
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Thanks. That was basically my question since my 223 is sighted in for 200 yards. I just didn't know if it would matter. As always, thanks! Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Nice group, but how do you get a measurement of .25?? Using the flyer for scale (.224) the larger "one hole" group is .74 inches. A 1/4 inch group can't be larger than .474 inches. But still, nice group. | |||
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AZW, It's a helluva good group whatever it measures! How many rifles do you own that will put at least 9 into a ragged hole like that? I like that kind of groupings from about anything from 17 thru 375!! If 9 of them don't leave any paper showing in the middle, the darn rife and the shooter are doing pretty well!! GHD Groundhog Devastation(GHD) | |||
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I am not arguing it isn't a good group. But it doesn't measure .25. Not even close. | |||
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4064 is good stuff 223 to 416 rem mag.not real meter frendly but you shuld have some under your bench. my high power budy said I dont care if it walks down range as long as it goes in the x ring. | |||
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IMR4064 is by far the most versitile powder I use. It is not always the most accurate, but very capable in all the rifle calibers I reload. I reload 16 rifle calibers. .223 to 9.3x57 | |||
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OT, slightly..  As a kid growing up, my Step Dad only had two powders in the house, ever. One was 4227 for his Model 54 Hornet, and the other...4064. He used 4064 for EVERYTHING, at least a dozen rifles in different calibers, from 22-250 to his 44-40. | |||
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I have a pair of Rem 722's in 222 Rem Mag. I couldn't find brass when I got them, so I bought Nosler Factory ammo to use. The first target posted is that ammo. I called Nosler and they told me the load data, so I've been using it for both the 222 Mag's and 223's, because it shot so well. The factory loading is 26.5 grains of H-4895, Nosler 50 grain BT's and WSR primers. I shoot 3 shot groups, and use a 20x scope for load testing. Groups were shot at 100 yards.   | |||
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