lowrider49 ty ,
ive just been to local gun shop near york,uk
and was looking at the cz 17hmr, now this bloke came over and said dont bother biggest bag of shite going and thats my rifle your looking at, it needs cleaning every 15 shots, and it can only shoot rabbits out to 125 maybe push 150 yds, well i nearly fell on floor laughing at this stupid fool as he works for the shop and lost a sale,
the manager came over gave him aright bollocking for what was said,

Groundhog devastation: It might be the same contrary... aahh I mean person!
Oh well everyone has an opinion but sometimes I think some people enjoy being "contrary" for conraries sake. And not for good reason!
I KNOW what the 17 HMR will do and I won't hesitate defending it when need be.

CZ 17 HMR fans: I spent this whole spring and summer hosting shooter after shooter (on one Safari 3 at once!) who had various models of CZ's in 17 HMR (as well as 204's and 223's - and one 221 Fireball!) along.
There IS NO DOUBT the CZ 17 HMR's are both accurate and hold their points of impact very well! My friend Jim Garner was just "hammering" Ground Squirrels with his CZ 17 HMR on one trip. I asked him about noon one day how many rounds he had fired with that Rifle? He dug in his field pack and came up with 4 fully empty 17 HMR cartridge boxes and he was halfway through his fifth box that day! He was killing Ground Squirrels out to 220 yards with his rig. I ranged several of his targets with my Leica Laser Ranging device! He never cleaned that CZ once during that day. I am sure he fired 400 rounds from it that day! I put mine away at 100 rounds and clean it before firing on - whether it needs that or not I have not tested for that.
Jim was not tipping them all over at those long ranges but he was on the plus side of half of them being bonked!
Chapster1, you and I obviously know better than the poor salesman you ran into. Again I wonder what motivates some folks to speak ill of something that they obviously have no experience with???
I have killed three types of Rabbits with my 17 HMR so far here in the Rocky Mountain area of the U.S.A.! The 17 HMR is deadly medicine for our Rabbits, either with heart/lung shots or head shots.
I have not killed one past 150 yards that I recall right off hand though. I am sure that 175 yards is feasible as pretty sure death on the various Rabbits with heart/lung shots.
Our Ground Squirrels are much smaller and much more fidgety (move around a lot) than the Rabbits I am familiar with. Ground Squirrels here are very over-populated and destructive in many of the areas I Hunt them.
I Hunt Jack Rabbits here abouts often times at night with hand held spotlights - is that form of Hunting legal over North Yorkshire way?
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Vg yes i shoot quite a lot during the winter months for rabbits and hare, the main reason for so many hares to be shot is the farmers want to stop poachers driving accross fields with 4x4 and then coursing the hares with dogs, the 4x4 dont half make a mess of newly sow corn fields,
ill not say just how many ive taken off one farm in one week but it was a lot,

mark

Chapster1,

NTFW...we have lot's of blokes like that here too!!

VG hit it just right. I have three of these critters, Savage and Marlin bolts and a Rem 597 and I haven't cleaned any of them yet and they still shoot just fine!! I have a Marlin stainless 22 Mag that I used to love (and still do) but it has been replaced by the 17 and I turned it into a "barn gun".

Some folks are really anti-.17HM2 also, but I have one, a 10-22 and an EABCO barrel, that shoots to 100 yds just like the .17HMR and gives me dime size groups if I do it right. I've only shot crows with this one, but I think it would do fine on bunnies out to 75yds or a little more. My boys have used it on squirrels, but mostly under 50 yds with only head shots...otherwise you have dog food only.

I'm not usually impressed by "new fangled" stuff, but these 17's are really cool!!

I have not had a chance to visit this forum in a while. Not to hijack the thread, but back to badgers. . . .I don't really care about the game commission's classification of a particular animal, or Rancher Joe's classification. I just don't see me ever shooting a badger. It is arbitrary and subjective. I feed ducks and shoot geese, because the latter are evil. I don't dig the whole predator shooting scene because those critters have to work for a living. I am not a rancher or a farmer, so I don't have a vested interest. I leave it at that. It is a preference. I never thought much of Elmer Keith for the simple fact that he shot birds of prey or at least posed with birds of prey he shot in one of his books. Twas legal at the time, but it is still creepy to me for someone to feel the need to shoot a hawk or eagle or black snake for that matter. That being said, kill all groundhogs.

The only varmints I have shot with the 17 HMR round are prairie dogs .Last year I used a Cooper LVT 17 HMR w/ Burris 4-14 X scope to shoot about 1500 of them. This year I used a CZ Varmint 17 HM2 rifle w/ 4-12X Burris scope for shots out about 80 Yds and used the 17 HMR round for shot from 80 Yds out to about 150 Yds. I have hit them at longer ranges but they get back into their holes most of the time. For shot over 150 Yds I like the 204 Ruger Target rifle w/ 6-18 X Leupold scope. The 17 rimfire are fine rounds but they have their limets.

390ish: I don't think anyone anymore "feels the need" to shoot Hawks and Eagles! At least I have never heard anyone espouse that desire! And I have heard a lot of "I would like to shoot such and such, talk"!
Yes technically Badgers are predators! But that grants them no special status legally around these parts (Rocky Mountains!). They are designated as "Varmints" by the state of Montana's Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks! No license needed - no closed season!
Cougars are predators - they are legally Hunted!
Bobcats are predators - they are legally Hunted!
Coyotes are predators - they are legally Hunted!
Black Bears are predators - they are legally Hunted!
Wolverines are predators they are legally harvested (Trapped!)!
Fox are predators - they are legally Hunted!
So why not Badgers? I see no valid reason for not Hunting them.
Hmm.... I am puzzled by your condemnation or derision of those who legally Hunt Badgers!
Here in Montana, for your information, they have government employees who trap and Hunt areas with to many Badgers!
I know an 80 year old Montanan who has nuisance animal trapping legal status and he traps Badgers til you would not believe it! I once saw the rear bed of his full size pickup covered with about 40 Badgers - that he had taken off of one huge ranch in the Big Hole Valley of SW Montana (in just a few days of Trapping)!
I am happy to go Hunting Badgers!
I like Hunting Badgers and feel no guilt or hesitancy at all doing so!
Its fun to Hunt and harvest Badgers!
They make beautiful rug mounts and even more wonderful full life size mounts!
There are folks that are Hunting Badgers and selling the scrotums of the male Badgers to folks of Scottish ethnicity to make some kind of kilt accessories!
Still the Badgers are doing fine, around the Rocky Mountains at least.
How are the Badgers doing down Waynesboro, Virginia way?
Long live the Badger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, I'll answer the question for Mr390ish! Badgers aren't doing worth a damn in Waynesboro Va!! Same as porcupines!! But I would be willing to be that the RedTailed Hawk population is growing or at least staying level.....while the BobWhite Quail population has declined to the point of non-existance!! And he says, "Kill all Groundhogs"!!....and considers himself a varmint hunter? He's probably one of those folks who starts hunting groundhogs in March!!! (Because he has a little garden with 3 hills of beans that the resident groundhog seems to like to eat!!) Groundhogs are a bit different than the prairie dogs of the west! One litter/year. 3-6 young ones. Shoot an old sow in March and you have effectively erased 4-6 potential targets!!! Now if you shoot a Redtailed Hawk in March, you may have saved, 30 baby groundhogs, 100 quail!!! Or 200 little rabbits!!! GHD

Until this point, you, VarmintGuy have been the only one to deride another person posting. I stated that I did not want to shoot a badger. I did not pass judgment on you, I stated a personal preference. Kill all the badgers you want, get Schlitzed up and post a few more half-screen sanctimonious replies. If you keep it up, maybe the moderator will let you change your screen name to Sheriff Jim Wilson and everyone will know what to expect when they see you post. You need goals, VarmintGuy, I'm in your corner.

I don't know how to edit responses on the board, so I will just make another response. I did not know VarmintGuy was laid up with a snake bite. Being sick is no fun, and I don't want to argue. Most folks come to the boards for entertainment, not aggravation. I hope you get to feeling better. I'll leave it at that.

390ish: Well thank you for being in my corner?
But please go back and peruse my last posts! It is filled with anecdotes and real life (real life, where the Badgers live!) experiences and situations we deal with (those that legally Hunt
Badgers) and why we Hunt them!
I am trying to counter your initial posting in which you state that Badgers are just to "such and such" for you to justify killing any of them!
I simply am trying to convince you that there are reasons to Hunt them, that it is legal to Hunt them, that the Badgers are doing just fine (out here where people Hunt them!) and that its fun to Hunt them!
I did not second your opinion of yourself (that you knew you would be considered a "jerk" for espousing on a Varmint Hunting site that particular Varmints not be Hunted!). Nor did I declare THAT YOU were being "sanctimonious" in your obviously "sanctimonious" posting!
Nor did I declare that the short sideness of "shooting all Groundhogs" that you apparently endorse would be terrible for other Varminters! Yeah your position would simply be shortsighted and self defeating for all Varminters.
Let me give you my personal guarantee that if Badgers were to ever become in short supply population wise I would discontinue Hunting them!
Does that ease any of your consternation?
Yes Badgers are beautiful animals! I have personally taken many of them to the Taxidermist for myself and my friends! I have two close friends that have had expensive ($250.00ish) wall mount rugs made of the Badgers they took along with me in the last year alone. I have two tanned hides of Badgers that I have taken recently myself. I often see Badger hides for sale at gift shops, sport shops, pawnshops and Gunshows throughout the west!
How about Skunks 390ish? Are they ugly enough for you to shoot with a clear conscience?
Good grief man, this is a Varmint Hunting discussion chat room!
Badgers are Varmints!
Hope all is well down your way with the approach of yet another storm! Stay dry.
If it takes a half a screen to try and get some sense imbedded in your thought process then so be it! I am a fast typer! The size of my posts should not enrage you - its the content that you should take umbrage with OR agree with!
I am simply trying to get you (who allegedly is a Varminter!) to agree with me! The electronic dots on your screen do not cost you anything more whether there are just a few of them or a "half screen" full of them!
Reality check please there also!
More later (if you don't mind?).
390ish, if you are indeed troubled by or wishing to avoid aggravation (if you consider getting a response to a controversial posting YOU made) then analyze your OWN anti-Varminting posting here on a Varmint Hunting chat site. Please.
I did not fly down to Waynesboro and seek you out to aggravate YOU!
If any aggravation was intiallized then I contend it was not me who initially agravated anyone! My arguments (aggravations?) were intended to convince you that you were wrong and indeed that it is legal, fun and necessary to Hunt Badgers! No personal aggravation intended to you - and thanks for your well wishes. I am 95% recouped from my now 40 day old injury!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Almost feel like I'm hijacking the thread after the flurry of threads up front about Badgers, but to get back to the orginal question, ".17 HRF, what varmnit and how far?

I have three witnesses who saw me take the luck shot of the century at a Prarie Dog in South Dakota two years ago.

Mature (defiantely Roland Ward class) PD at a lasered 319 meters. One shot through the chest! It wasn't exactly a catastrophic kill, the PD just sorta toppled slow-motion backwards onto the front of the mound.

I held straight on the top of the Dog's head using the bottom of the x-hair in a 56mm objective scope, so there must have been some serious elevation.

I get bragging rights one time - but I'm sure I'd be at it awhile connecting with another such shot with a .17 HRF.

Gerry: I had to do a search for a conversion table and 319 meters equals 348.862 yards!
So lets round that off to 349 yards!
Grand shot my man!
I only wish I had been there to see it for myself!
Your witnessed shot is now the longest Varmint kill I have heard about with the 17 HMR!
I killed a feathered Varmint at 249 yards this spring and the longest Prairie Dog I have harvested was right at 200 yards as I recall.
I am taking my 17 HMR Rifle along on an upcoming Big Game/Varmint Safari but I am not at all optimistic about my even coming close to your 349 yard shot!
Again congratulations on your feat!
One of the fellows I Hunted Varmints with this summer would not hesitate to try long shots with his 17 HMR and his various other Rifles! He came up with the cutest saying (at least I had not heard it before) - "as long as there's lead in the air, there's hope"!
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Gerry, CONGRATS are in order!! 349 yards is a "considerable distance" if the choice is a 17HR!!! My best is a 236 yard shot on a "mature buck" groundhog....dialed him in and killed him!!! I don't recommend the 17HMR for "novices" for over 150 yard varmint harvesting!! I do it from 150-200 yards rather frequently but "I know my limitations!!!(Clint Eastwood....."a man's gotta know his limitations!!") Still waiting for a badger to pop up down here in VA!!! Maybe I'll just shoot him and throw him in the South River and when he goes floating by 390ish's place he can fish him out and mount him!!! GHD

V-G & GD,

Great funnies, guys.

Coming from you two guys with monikers such as yourselves who I'm sure have a boatload more Varmint Hunting experience than I do - your compliment is humbly accepted, thank you.

I've hunted all over the world and only been PD Shooting one time, sadly because I am HOOKED! I had one of the greatest shooting (I don't think there is much "Hunting" involved in PD's) experiences in SD with three great friends three years ago.

Three of us flew from Frankfurt to Cincinnati (9 hours), met our cohort in crime, loaded two SUV's worth of Varmint Shooting stuff (2 hours because it was already sorted, stacked & waiting, including 18 rifles and assorted accessories) you know the drill; and directly proceeded to drive to South Dakota (18 hours). We did share the driving between the four of us though.

We stopped at Cabela's in Mitchell, SD (3 hours) 2 of that alone in the Bargain Basement and finally got out of there $$$$.$$ later. Trying to stow what we purchased in the already overflowing SUV's was another feat of major proportions!

Drove on to Pierre, SD (2 hours) to visit Varmint Shooter's HQ and sight-in the Savage .17 HRF at their range (in the standard South Dakota 35-40 mph left-to-right "breeze") which we had taken new out of the box and mounted the scope (thanks to Brownell's wonderful screwdriver sets!) Finding .17 HRF ammo at that time was a minor, although expensive challenge.

Continued driving to Murdo, SD (3 hours) and managed get a couple of shots down range by late the afternoon of the second day! Pretty good feat by any stretch of one's imagination!

On the morning og the third day I was just plinking around with the .17 HRF at PD pups that were within pretty short range of where we had set up, I'd estimate less than 100 meters or so and was just hammering them one right after the other. Fun Rifle!

My German buddy exitedly said, "Hey there's a Roland Ward Dog, way-y-y out there". After the usual "See the big mound about two hundred meters in front, go right two more big mounds and back three more" routine I spotted the Dog - Major Dog! My initial response was "That's a pretty fair poke". O.K. it was a big target as PD's go and everyone whooped and hollered when I connected. No one could have been more surpized than me!

Walked to the mound and lasered the bench I was shooting from - 319 meters - Cool! That one shot made my whole week in SD and we are still talking about it years later.

The four of us met again in South Africa this summer for another great hunt together. Yes, all of the unititiated sitting around the campfire that night looked pretty astonished when someone brought up that .17 HRF shot in SD.

Personally that is what this is all about, I cannot imagine my life without shooting, hunting and sharing it with friends. The really neat bit is that guys like yourselvs who have never met me think this is great as well!

I make no bones that my "Fair Poke" was anything less than pure Dumb Luck but it was sure alot of Fun and the stuff legends are made of!

Gerry: Thanks for the update on your Safari for Prairie Dogs! I hope all the Americans you came across were sociable and friendly!
I hope you can make it over to the high plains of America to Hunt Prairie Dogs again some day soon!
I have Hunted the area you mention and it is remote country with lots of "shooting" to be had! Its about 600 miles from where I live now.
"Uber alles" (or something Germanic!) - provst! I think is a German salute to good times and good drink!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy