Thought this would provide some interesting responses.

Just how far have people taken varmints with the HMR and what is the largest class of varmint reliably taken?

Here in the U.K the round has proved a great rabbit cartridge particularly with the 17 grain V-Max bullet.

My own expeirences inidctae the round is certainly good enough to record one shot kills on rabbits to over 160 yards.

I have shot praire dogs that were pushing 200. I have a cousin who shot alot of jackrabbits last year with his, he says further than that, but he is notoriously short strided he said lung hits and they pretty muched tipped over.

It's been said the a 15 lb critter is about the limit, that feels about right for me. For me red fox would be biggest I would go after. I am not sure about the range on a bigger things 150 maybe.

Here is something to stirr the pot too. I am thinking that 75 -100 may be the optimal distance for larger game. The reason I think this is that the bullet would have lost enough energy so that is does not disintegrate on contact, penetrating to the vitals more reliably.

Here's some reading for ya....


http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86727&highlight=prairie+dog

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98228&highlight=prairie+dog

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98408&highlight=prairie+dog

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94892&highlight=prairie+dog

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24615&highlight=prairie+dog

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91410&highlight=prairie+dog

Jonathan Tomlinson: I am quite a proponent of the nifty litte 17 HMR! It has PROVEN its worth to me - IN PERSON so to speak!
I have a Ruger 77/17V with a Weaver KT-15 scope on it. It is a tackdriver and the 17 HMR projectiles are VERY lethal on all manner of Varmints including Coyotes.
I have killed two full grown Coyotes with my 17 HMR Rifle. Each Coyote was killed with a single shot. One was head shot and the other was lung shot. Both were taken at approximately 100 yards.
I fully intend to use this Rifle and cartridge again in a secret spot and under special circumstances that require its use in this particular area for Coyoting!
I also have killed Badger, Rock Chuck, Porcupine, Skunk, feral cats, Jack Rabbits, Prairie Dogs, Cottontail Rabbits, Ground Squirrels, Weasels and several large black flying Varmints with my 17 HMR's (I also have a S&W Custom Classic M-647 revolver in 17 HMR)!
One of these kills was of special note! I killed a large Boar Badger with one shot to the Adams Apple area of said Badger and the range was a lasered 173 yards! Just 30 minutes later my partner that day killed another Badger with his 17 HMR Rifle at the very same distance!
The one creature I especially wanted to harvest by now with my 17 HMR, was a Fox! Unfortunately the Fox were wiped out here a couple years back by the mange!
I killed a VERY large black flying Varmint (it was feeding on a Ground Squirrel carcass on the ground at the time!) this summer, again with one shot at - 239 yards!
I have killed Wild Turkeys with one shot apiece at 100+ yards twice now! My friend on one Turkey Hunt grabbed my 17 HMR out of my arms and killed an albino Wild Turkey at 125 yards last fall! He nearly dropped his fine English double barrel shotgun on the ground in his rush to harvest the trotting away Albino Turkey with my 17 HMR! He's a believer now also!
I have killed Prairie Dogs at 210 yards several times with the 17 HMR now.
I killed a largish (9 pound) Rock Chuck this spring at 120 yards using the 17 HMR!
I have probably killed 25 or 30 Rock Chucks with the 17 HMR and only recall having to shoot one of them twice!
I regularly kill several Ground Squirrels on each venture I make for them at 200 yards or slightly more!
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I witnessed a buddy of mine take out a prairie dog in the panhandle of Oklahoma at about 265 yrds. Granted, he didn't hit him on the first shot, but got him on about the 6th or 7th.

Not to sound like a jerk, but I would never shoot a badger. They are too independent and mean for me think I was justified in killing. Pretty animals. With that said, kill all groundhogs.

JT, I, like Varmint Guy, am a proponent of the 17HMR!! Having owned or set up and worked on over 30 of them over the last 3 years, and having shot or witnessed being shot no less than 200 eastern groundhogs and countless crows with this cartridge, I say without any reservations, it is a super 100-150 yard varmint round! Is that it's limitations? NO!! But the limitations then come from the rifleman and the glass on top of it!!
The 17HMR(NEF, Rem, Savage, Marlin, Ruger, CZ, whoever) are inherrently accurate for some reason! sub 1" groups at 100 yards are the NORM!! sub 1/2" groups at 100 yards are common and sub 2" groups at 200 yards are relatively easy!!! Couple that inherrent accurracy with a decent piece of glass, a decent proficiency of the shooter and the 17HMR is a legitimate varmint slayer!
I've personally killed a lot of groundhogs in the 150-185 yard range. Longest measured is 236 yards. I recommend only head and neck shots on the varmints for the 17HMR! But because of the inherrent accurracy, head and neck shots are fully attainable with high degree of accurracy! Never shoot a bull in the ass with a BB gun and expect him to fall!!! GHD PS: I have witnessed hideous "crawl offs" with a lot of centerfires(most notably the 30's(.308, 300Sav, 30-06) on "poorly placed" shots on varmints!!!

390ish: Good for you and YOUR position on Badgers. If thats how you feel about them again "good for you"?
In the normal place where folks post where-abouts they are from you have given no information - and I checked your profile, again no information there for me to review. And thats fine also.
BUT - in the neck of the woods I live in, Hunt Varmints in and also Hunt Big Game in Badgers are a major pain in the butt!
If ANY of the ranchers I Hunt Varmints and Big Game on their places were to find out I had a chance to shoot a Badger on their place and I didn't - I would not be surprised if they would run me off - PERMANENTLY!
Badgers are considered Varmints in Montana by the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department - this is where I live and where I do most of my Hunting anymore. And I shoot them here to the tune of about two a year.
I have also killed Badgers in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming and South Dakota.
I have probably killed 50 or more Badgers in my life. I intend on killing at least 50 more.
I have no intention of wiping them out, and if they were to become rare or much, much less of a pain in the rear for all concerned then I would quit Hunting them.
It snows a lot where I live and it gets dark at night! And the cattle, horses, Llamas, domestic sheep and many kinds of wild creatures are susceptible to stepping in the Badger holes and breaking legs.
Slow lingering deaths result from this.
You know what.... I choose to not go on with justifying my Hunting of Badgers - they are a legal Varmint here and after all this is THE VARMINT HUNTING forum! If thats not enough for you or anyone else then I wonder what you are doing here on the Varminting Forum?
So I will leave it at that before someone thinks I am "over-reacting" to your failing to see MY justification in Hunting them!
If you still have a problem with me engaging in this legal (and I think beneficial) Hunting of Badgers then address me specifically (publicly or privately) with your reasoning.
You mentioned Hunting Groundhogs and I am guessing you may be from the east. Out west "justification" has long since been established.
Long live the Badger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I am with Varmint Guy on this one.Early this spring we were riding out to gather yearlings,we were loping our horses and I was talking back and forth with a young woman who works on the ranch with me.When her horse stepped in a badger hole and went head over heels throwing her in front of him and he landed on her with his back at her hips,it broke her pelvis in 4 places.She still is on crutches and has no idea when she will be able to work.There are so many bager holes in this country its a wonder it doesent happen more often.w/regards

No Badgers here, but the foxes are everywhere.

17 HMR is great out to 150 or so on fox and 225 is my longest on crows so far...all out of a Rem 597 Mag. I was using a Marlin and a Savage bolt, but the Rem shoots at least as good and has a better trigger now that I have tweaked it a bit. Fast follow-up shots are nice too. I may get another one and make it a truck gun in place of my 22 K Hornet.....I like em a bunch!!

Gophershooter: Yikes on your Badger hole story! I hope the young lady recovers quickly!
That story made me cringe! A horse falling on you now that could be SERIOUS!
Be careful out there!
I know I have a habit of falling in the dang Badger holes when there is a snow on the ground and at night when I am trundling out across the landscape moving to a Coyote set up! I have had some bad spills in these holes - luckily no broken bones as yet!

Lowrider 49: Do you have the heavy barrelled Model 597? My 2,005 Remington catalog shows four varieties of the 597 but only one heavy barrel. I kind of like the looks of the Heavy Barrel HB-LS 597.

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

i just bought a savage 17 hmr and love it im useing the 20 grain game points and they shoot great outta my rifle 50 yards .320 .420 groups all day long .750 groups at 100 yards easy.


but i have yet to shoot anything but a few crows and red wing black birds with it what projectiles are you guys using. for the badgers and larger stuff......raccoons.....fox......ect


here is the ammo im using http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=3&pg=18&prod_id=34

700 Nitro: I am using the Remington offering in my 17 HMR Rifle (and pistol!). It is the V-Max style polymer tip bullet. My ammo's projectiles weigh 17 grains and they are obviously lethal enough for my needs on Varmints.
I have not tried your favorite ammo as yet.
I also get sub M.O.A. groups at 100 yards with these polymer tipped dandies from my Ruger 77/17 V/T.
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Guys

Thanks for the thoughts and stories, here in the U.k we don't have anything like the choice of varmints you have, foxes, squirrels, crows and rabbits would be the main quarry. Badgers here are strictly protected and carry huge fines for unlawful killing.

I haven't tried any of the 20 grains yet, but have some ready and waiting.

BTW what sort of weight do full grown coyotes grow to and just how big are "groundhogs", sorry if the questions seem inane but we have neither of these critters here.

Thanks again

JT

Jonathan: Here on the high plains of the Rocky Mountains the Coyotes run an average of 30 to 35 pounds for adults. A tannery here in western Montana weighed the heaviest Coyote they ever got in, a couple years ago, and it weighed 72 pounds!!!
So the average adult Coyote is about 4 times as large as one of OUR adult Fox!
I have taken big boar (adult male) Rock Chucks that weighed 14 pounds! I have taken Badgers that I am sure weighed 20+ pounds although I have not weighed one on a reliable scale.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

.700Nitro and Jonathan T, All the groundhogs, crows shot with my various 17's have been with the HORNADY 17 grain loading. The Remington 17 grain loading is essentially the same accurracy in the Marlin 17VS, Savage 93, Remington 597, Savage Striker......and the Striker seems to prefer the Remington load for some reason or the other!! I've shot the HORNADY 20 grain loads on paper and they are "acceptable" in that realm but I have not shot a piece of game with them as of yet!
Groundhogs will be from 2 lbs(young ones) to 10 lbs(average mature weights) on up to 12,14.......biggest one I've ever seen up close and personal was 21 lbs 4 oz!!!!....and he was shot at 155 yards with a 17 Remington and a factory 25 grain loading.......taxidermist did a "horrendous" job of mounting him and he was used (with explosives up his butt) for a contest at 450 yards for target practice!!! (The "second death was more extreme than the first!!)
The 17 grain Hornady VMAX should suffice quite well on your chosen varmints!! Placed quite well "in that little dimple on the back of a whitetails neck" they can take suprisingly large game from moderate ranges!! GHD

Just got back from a great long weekend prairie dog hunt in Wyoming. My hunting buddy and I had just bought Savage 93s in .17HMR. I'd got his tuned, but not mine, so that's what we took along with .223s and .22-250s.
Sunday, we didn't shoot anything but his .17HMR! Shots were taken up to a laser measured 250yds. We didn't get all of them with the first shot, but did get them. We used both the 17grain V-max bullet in several different brands, and the 20grain HP in several brands. Found the 20gr bullets were too hard. Yeah, they killed PDs, but some penetrated then ricocheted. Didn't like that.

Guys

Thanks for the info, those coyotes are one heck of a size, we have noting like that that qualifies as varmints here.

My own .17 is a CZ BRNO "American" model, I have tuned the trigger to a low 1 lb let -off and fully floated the barrel. Best 100 yard group is a little under 5/8 for 5 shots, but at 192 yards the best group to date is 4 shots into 7/8".


Here we can use sound moderators which does make a difference and provided you zero in with the moderator in place, does not affect the accuracy. You can get off several shots or more into a colony of rabbits before they spook, without the moderator one shot will usually see them all scarper.

As for ammo, I have found the Remington 17 grain to be slightly more accurate than those of Hornady, I think someone told me they are all made by CCI, if this is the case, then I can see no reason why one brand should differ from the other, but my rifle most definitely prefers the Remingtons.

Having read the threads, I think I will be better sticking with the 17 grainers.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Thank you all again

Varmint Guy, you have got to be the biggest Dip-Shit on this forum... another move-in wannabe. Montana's overflowing with your type!

390 posted a non-judgemental, personal observation and you jumped down his feakin throat.

YOU SIR ARE NO MONTANAN... WE TREAT PEOPLE BETTER.

As to your position on Badgers... yeah, I've killed my share but I also know plenty of ranchers the DO NOT allow Badgers to be killed on their place as they're great gopher killers that work at night while we're sleeping. And no, these are not johnny-come-lately ranchers, these are guys whose families have been here over 100 years.

Brad: If you can prove you ARE superior in some way to anyone then do so!
You can't.
So quit trying to sound like it.
You say I jumped down 390's throat I say you are squeamish. I confronted 390 with facts and INVITED HIM (not you) to correct those facts! As of now they have not been corrected. Just childish and immature personal attacks aimed at me. Personal attacks that have no bearing what so ever on the subject at hand - and yes of course "O'sage of Montana" if attacked folks often respond in kind. In your case though I refuse to stoop to such immature and childish tactics as you display above. Where are your facts figures or refutations of my posting?
A real mature man (whether he lives in Montana or Zimbabwe) would join in the conversation, discusssion or argument with some basis in reality and with facts. You obviously are not up to that task! And that my Montana sage is the way reality is. Your immaturity will win no argument or influence no discussion!
I have Hunted EXTENSIVELY in Montana since the late 1960's and I have yet to come across any land owner or rancher that did not want the Badger population kept to a minimum! Shoot the Badgers is universal in my extensive Hunting experiences!
I have never heard a Montanan, an Idahoan or a Wyomingite say "please don't shoot the Badgers"!
I entirely refute your ridiculous contention to the contrary!
Yeah Bard, the Badgers are doing a REAL GOOD JOB of keeping the Gophers in check!
LOL!
That is one of the STUPIDEST contentions I have ever heard or read!
The Ground Squirrels populations have been exploding in the western 2/3rds of Montana for many many decades. It has more to do with cultivated crops than a lack of Badgers or other predators! There are now at least 4 times more birds of prey in the western states than in the 50's and 60's and if you have ever spent any time in Ground Squirrel country and sat real still for a while you will see the Hawks, Falcons and Eagles preying upon the Gophers! In addition to birds of prey dining on the Ground Squirrels there are legions of Coyotes, Bobcat, Weasels, Fox and other creatures Hunting them. The continued population increases of the "gophers" again has more to do with sage brush being cleared and cultivated crops coming into more and more places!
I shot 4,000 rounds of ammo at Ground Squirrels two years ago (I did not keep track this year or last) and the resulting number of dead Ground Squirrels from my work, I am sure had more effect on the harm they do than 60 Badgers would! And I know many many Varminters who shoot more "Gophers" each year than I do!
So your specious attempt at "coloring" how Montanans feel about Badgers is just that - without any merit at all!
So - perhaps more importantly "O'sage of Montana" - and decider of who's opinions and arguments should even be considered (apparently based upon where one is born???) what "facts and figures" can you present to anyone concerned regarding Gophers and Badgers AND just who can post, with your approval, real facts and Hunting experiences?
Or are you still in immature and childish mode and would rather make up untrue slanders and pose that as the best you can bring to a discussion?
LOL!
I stand fully by my contentions regarding 390, Badgers and Ground Squirrels!
Montana is not overflowing with anybody Drab for your information! There are ONLY 900,000 people in one of the largest states in our union! There are probably 35 or 40 CITIES in the U.S. that have more people than all of Montana! 17 of our 56 counties went DOWN in population from 2,000 to 2,005! Most counties stayed the same in population and only 10 or 11 counties had any increase!
Maybe if you were a little less judgemental, a little more fact oriented and a little less immature then maybe more people born in Montana would stay here! Ever think about that Brad?
By the way for your information and hopefully this will temper somewhat your tendency to spout off with incorrect and insulting insinuations - 64% of the people that live in Montana today were NOT born here!
So when you get the urge to "strike out" at people you do not agree with remember that fact, and also remember that many people possess the ability to correct you with facts, figures and real life well rounded experiences and will do so in a mostly congenial manner!
I consider myself congenial and won't hesitate to correct YOU when you need it - no matter WHERE you were born!
Long live Montana!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Varmint Guy, you have got to be the biggest Dip-Shit on this forum...

Nuff Said...

Drab: Its unfortunate but YOU ARE PROVING YOURSELF WRONG again!
Your immaturity and childlike behavior persists!
You have no merit to your contentions, you have no substance to your attempt at slander and you have no facts or figures OR you are simply unable to achieve an intellectual level high enough to carry on a debate, a deliberation OR a mature exchange.
And that Brad is enough said about you - BY YOURSELF!
Oh and this Bard, I forgot to correct you on one more point! You stated I am just another Montana "move-in wannabe" - well, you need correction again and I will not hesitate to correct you with real facts, real figures and reality - whenever the need be!
Here goes!
I am a Montanan! I hope that does not further upset your childlike sensibilities!
I'll give you one more chance to refute ANYTHING I have posted - otherwise the immature tone and ineffectual and childlike name calling by you will stand as your legacy!
Do you want people to think of you as an unintelligent, childlike and immature being?
If thats your choice then let it stand! If not try and compose yourself and come up with something, ANYTHING, substantive!
Or go play with yourself.
I could care less - small man!
Long live Montana!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I feel that you can shoot badgers as long as it's legal. In Wyoming it says that Badgers must be taken on a trapping license using traps. I didn't see anywhere that said that you could use a rifle.

I was in Carbon County, Wyoming hunting antelope last year and the land owner there told us not to shoot Badgers as they were protected.
I didn't see it in the regs that that was a closed area but I'm not going to question anyone that let's me hunt on his land.

Frank: Great post there. I have not Hunted Badgers in Wyoming for some time but have done so on many occassions in the past.
I double checked my Varmint Pamphlet that is published by the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department and Badgers are considered Varmints here. In other words no closed season, no limits and no license needed to Hunt them.
I will double check Idaho and Wyoming for you ASAP.
Idaho lists the American Badger as a Game Species and they are regulated in their Hunting by the Idaho Department of Fish & Game. Idaho offers non residents a small game or Varmint license and the last one I bought there was $14.00. Waiting for update here. My source for this information was the Idaho Game & Fish site and from my own experiences there.
Wyoming is slow and not thorough on their site so far!
Wyoming just returned my call and Rifle Hunting of Badgers in Wyoming is legal! There is no closed season on Badgers in Wyoming (or more lawfully stated as relayed to me, the season runs from January 1st through December 31st of each year!) but the Wyoming legislature now considers Badgers as Fur Bearering Game Animals and in order to Hunt them with firearms or trap them with traps a person needs a Furbearer license! No limits and I did not inquire if they can be Hunted at night like the Montana sage apparently prefers!
My source for this info was Wyoming Game and Fish Regional Headquarters for Cody, Wyoming 1-307-527-7125.
Also this Frank I had occassion to do some Varmint Hunting near Medicine Bow, Wyoming there in Carbon County this late spring and I saw some hellacious big Antelope while there. I hope you got drawn again for Antelope this year as its gonna be a good one. And the rancher I stayed and Hunted on his place made special mention for us to shoot the Badgers and the Coyotes when seen! I am glad I did not see a Badger as I would technically have been breaking the law by doing in the Badger without a Furbearer License!
This rancher though was recently moved to the Medicine Bow area from Montana. I had Hunted both Varmints and Big Game on his ranch when he lived in Montana. He has been in Wyoming 2+ years and has many valuable horses besides his cattle herds that I am sure he was intent upon protecting with his advisement regarding the Badgers. I may just give him a heads up on the rules now in Wyoming regarding Badgers and how they differ slightly from his old stomping grounds to the north! By the way the new owners of the ranch he sold here in Montana are also pro-Badger Hunting. I was in on killing two of them there last spring.
Long live Montana and Wyoming!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I wish I had drawn again in Carbon County. I missed on two areas that my friend has property on. (When you own 300,000 acres of land you cover a couple of different hunting areas.)

Last year I wound up shooting two antelope wounded by slobs and had to use my tag for one of them. Oh well, next year I'll try again.

Frank: I got into such a situation as you did last year once on the high country above Glenrock, Wyoming near Boxelder!
It was opening morning of the season and I had driven 1/20th the way around the earth to be there and be ready for the much awaited opener! I had stalked some Antelope and was sitting waiting for them to settle down a bit and then do the final approach on them. They were about 1,000 yards away from me when some vehicle Hunters sped up toward them and shot into the herd from the truck itself! Well the herd runs away from them and toward me and nothing fell immediately so the "Hunters" drove off!
Well sure enough a Buck Antelope had been gut shot and while the herd made it away and over the horizon this Buck could only manage 20 steps at a time! I sized him up in my spotting scope and he was no where near what I had come all the way to Wyoming for but the animals impending suffering and slow death made me wait for his approach and I sniped him from my hide!
This Buck was just 12 1/2" but I was happy in a away he did not go to waste!
That ranch also had wonderful Mule Deer and Elk on it but I could never get an Elk tag for the area and the owner wanted his kin to Hunt the Deer during the short season there then!
I looked for that pickup for the rest of our Hunt but I never saw it again!
I honestly think more Antelope are wounded by "flock shooters" than by folks that do wait for a "single" and just do not make a good shot on it!
I have seen some sickening things done by "sportsmen" and I am not talking about simply wounding an animal - that can happen to even the most dedicated and experienced of Hunters. I am talking about the "slobs" that you refer to and the flock shooters and such!
I kept seeing a truckload of "Hunters" in eastern Montana a few years back that literally had a pickup made up so 3 men could fire their Guns at Game Birds and Antelope even while moving from their "jump seats"! These "guys" made an annual thing of driving up and down the remote gravel roads and shooting Pheasants, Sharptails and Antelope from truck!
I was watching them one year on the day before the Antelope opener in my spotting scope when they veered off a county road and tore across a pasture chasing a flock of Wild Turkey and shooting at them while the rig was still bouncing along! The wardens heard about that one.
This flagrant and wasteful type of thing gives all Hunters a bad name.
Well I hope you were able to salvage the meat from the Antelope last year and better luck next year in the drawing!
I am Hunting a new ranch for Antelope this year here in Montana. It is 280,000 acres (contiguous!). That is 437 square miles!
Big tresspass fee on this place but I have Hunted Varmints on it and around it for decades! And in the fall I always travel through it at least twice on my Big Game comings and goings. It is FULL of great Antelope Bucks! I will let you know how we do.
Yeah while I am thinking about it - I think I will give you AND me a pat on the back for our "good deed" on the unfortunate Antelope!
Does that gal in the blue blouse live anywhere in the Rocky Mountians? I would kind of like to "see" her in person someday!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Here's my story from my report last year.

On opening morning, I jumped a medium sized buck with a hot doe at about 400 yards off the side of a hill and they both ran down to the flats where two guys in a pickup decided that 600 yard running shots were the way to hunt goats. On the fourth shot one of these guys hit the buck in the rear leg, breaking it. The buck then circled back toward me up on the hill and the guys in the truck started following it. I set up my 7 Mag on the bipod and started watching the buck run toward me. I figured that the truck would never catch the buck before it made the top of the hill and into the tall sagebrush where it would lay up and die so I decided to put it down. It passed me at about 250 yards at a shuffling trot and I put the cross hairs a foot in front of it and dumped a 140 grain Barnes Triple Shock through its ribs. The buck went right down so I walked up to check it dead then waited for the truck to show up. Within 5 minutes the truck came over the hill and I pointed to the downed buck. When they got to it, I told them I finished it and they just said "thanks" and heaved it into the back of the truck and drove off. (I don't even pretend to understand some people.) ................................................//
............
As I crested the hill I saw a buck standing facing away on the next hill top. Looking through the binoculars I could see that he was a young 12" buck facing away from me with blood running down its front left leg. I lasered him at 284 yards quartering away from me, so I put a Barnes 140 grain TSX up through his last rib and it exited through his throat. I walked back to the first hill and told my friends to bring up one of the ATV and then turned back to finish cleaning it.

VG and fjold, I think that girl in the blue blouse lives somewhere near Cohagen!! She probably is a regular at the "Wild Horse Bar and Saloon" !!!! She wouldn't fit at the "Hole In The Wall Supper Club"....not enough class!!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Varmint Guy, you have got to be the biggest Dip-Shit on this forum... another move-in wannabe. Montana's overflowing with your type!

390 posted a non-judgemental, personal observation and you jumped down his feakin throat.

YOU SIR ARE NO MONTANAN... WE TREAT PEOPLE BETTER.

As to your position on Badgers... yeah, I've killed my share but I also know plenty of ranchers the DO NOT allow Badgers to be killed on their place as they're great gopher killers that work at night while we're sleeping. And no, these are not johnny-come-lately ranchers, these are guys whose families have been here over 100 years.

"Brad" I come here for helpful information and do not appreciate you calling any of the forum members a "Dip-Shit" if you have nothing to say but insults keep them to your self. If you have something of interest to all of the forum members they by all means tell us post pictures of your guns, groups, etc.

What can we call each other Swede? How about sheep dip?

Dan you are a funny guy. Can I get that Sheep Dip with chips to go.

Everybody has their moments.

150 yards it your good...and steady

I shot one groundhog at about 175 yards and he still got back to his hole. A friend shot a crow at the same distance and i flew off to quickly die 15 yards away. My big problem is I bought the rifle as a squirl gun and they are just murder on a squirl. If you dont get a head shot (and thats hard 'cause they suck in the wind) you have nothing left!

highpower, Did you shoot at the "groundhog, or the groundhog's head????" The 17HMR is capable of better accurracy "in the wind" than the 22MAG and justifiably needs a scope to compliment it's inherrent accurracy!!! I've seen groundhogs that have been shot "when the shooter was shooting at the groundhog" using .22-250's, .243's, 6mm's 25-06's and the absolutely "all powerful" .308's and 30-06's that got back in their hole when bullet placement was less than perfect(the .30 caliber shooters are probably the worst for this of the lot!!)
Point is, the rifle, coupled with good glass, and a competant shooter is a lethal 150-180 yard "DRT" round on a groundhog!!
As far as a squirrel gun.......might be a bit much!! Especially if you "shoot at squirrel" rather than "squirrels head"!!! The need for nothing more than a CCI 22 Short HP and a quality 22 capable of "H.O.S."(head of squirrel) accurracy at 50 yards is adequate!! Do you use a .458 WinMag for whitetails also? And a crow flying 15 yards then dying, could have been another example of shot placement!! However that could also mean extra enjoyment!! Sometimes if you shoot one of them with a 22-250, 243 25-06 and just "wing" them a bit, they'll flop around and their "brothers from the hood" will swoop around them and sometimes land and you can shoot them too!!! KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS ON WHATEVER YOU'RE SHOOTING!! GHD

I really disagree with the accuracy in the wind. A fart half a mile away would blow it off target!

Highpower 223: If you are talking about the 17 HMR (Hornady Magnum RIMFIRE!) being overly affected by wind drift then you simply are mistaken!
The 17 HMR is the straightest shooting rimfire I have ever had the pleasure to shoot - during windy times!
I love my Ruger 77/17 V/T and always take it along when Varminting here in the Rocky Mountains and the high plains! And by the way the air is always moving (wind is blowing) here in the Rockies! The 17 HMR in the 30 months I have been using it has proven to me constantly that no other rimfire cartridge even comes close to matching its wind bucking abilities!
If you are aware of a wind drift chart that declares something different please make me aware of it.
I find that I must ask of you HIghpower 223, have you shot the 17 HMR much? Or compared it in the field with other Rimfires?
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

J T have you tried the 17hmr on hare`s as you dont live that far from me email me i you would like to try,
zoma@btinternet.com
thanks mark

Hey VG, is this the same "223 highpower" who argued with us on the merits of the .204 a couple months ago??? If so, leave it be!! He's probably never seen a "groundhog"(actual, live, hair and skin, they do exist!!!!!!) or a 1000 yard target!! He may have seen a 600 yard .223 target though!!! (GHD)

Chapster,

The 17 HMR will perform in the usual wind on the top of Menwith Hill if you can get thru the fence. 150 yds is a fair distance for hare. On a good day, it would probably take one of those sheep.

Good Morning GHD,

Can't get too much of that .204. I am so impressed with the 17 HMR in the Rem 597, I'm thinking about an AR upper in .204 just in case I'm attacked by rampaging GHogs....it's good to be prepared!!