I am starting to get into Varmint hunting. It is only at the research phase for now (rifle and caliber research)

I am looking into a few calibers for varmints and have come to these few to choose from

22-250
243
260

I had many other ideas but decided to stay away from widlcats and others of that nature. I would like to be able to go into a storer and buy some decent varmint loads if need be. And not have to load for the caliber just to shoot it. Although I will be loading for it anyway. I just like the idea of being able to buy off the shelf ammo if needed or stuck somewhere away from my bench. I also strongly considered 6.5-284 but was wisely talked out of it by a buddy who made me realise that I dont want a handload/caseform only caliber. Although that would be a perfect caliber. I need to have something a little more mainstream. The varmints I will be going after will be everything from chucks ans squirrels to preditors like yotes and bobcats. So these vamints will need to be taken into consideration when choosing the caliber.

So guys..........help me choose my next rifle project and varmint rifle. Give me the good and bad points of the above caliberf is you can. And if there is another mainstream caliber I have missed by all means offer it up to the table for consideration.

Thanks in advance for the advise.

Embalmer,

I'll first admit that I am bias and think the .22-250 is the best varmint cartridge to ever come down the pike. This cartridge started as a wildcat and was very successful. At one time Browning made rifles in the .22-250 when no one loaded ammo for it. Mike Walker of Remington was behind the cartridge being factory produced. Mike was also behind the .25-06 and the .222Rem.

Over the years I've had several .22-250s and have been happy with all of them. I finally settled on the Rem. M-700 BDL, in one model or another, to be the best way to go.

There is an article in the July/August issue of Rifle Shooter entitled "The great .22-250" by Terry Wieland. I haven't read it yet, but you might find it interesting. I hope that this is of some interest.

I'm currently using Varget powder, CCI BR#2 primers, Winchester cases and the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. The max load shown in the Hodgdon manual is 36.5 grains of Varget. This is the load I'm using, but suggest you work up to it from 34.0 grains in half grain steps. Good luck.

Howdy Embalmer,

Take this for what it is worth, the short answer is NO.

It all depends on what ya are going to shoot, where and how far. Here in West Texas, I use a 22-250AI, a 260, a 6.5-06AI, a 222, a 22 mag and sometimes a 7mm Rem Mag.

My varmint range from coyotes, bobcat, mountian lion and hogs to coons, possums and skunks around the house. I shoot anywhere from 5 yards to as far as I can see a yote.

Of the three calibers ya named, I would go with the 22-250, since you want to go into the store and buy some varmint loads, Walmart carries the Winchester Varmint Pack, 40 rds to a box of 22-250 loaded with their 45 grain HP bullet. I have used them out to 150 yards with great success on coyotes, they go in, but do not come out. They are advertised at 4000 fps, and I believe it, I have chronoed them while fireforming brass at 3960. I don't think the yote or bobcat is really gonna care about 40 fps.

Now that I have made things clear as mud, good luck.

Pecos

Sounds good so far. My main loads are usualy with Varget and CCI BR primers, both for my 308 and my 223 AR. So I know I like those two componatns of the recipe : )

By the way, the reason I wont consider the 223 for this varmint rifle project is becuase I already own a 223 Heavy brl Colt AR. I dont like buying multiple rifles in one round. I like to spread out over more calibers to have more options of shooting in the future. So that is why I dont want another 223.

I can use the AR for Varminting but I just dont feel right about that. It doesnt feel sporting. But thats just me. I will be using it for a couple of shoots until I get my varmint rig ordered so at least I can see how the 223 performs on the lil buggers.

Also, with the above calibers can you reccomend the best twist rate and length of brl please?

Maybe it's just me, but i think the greatest general purpose varmint cartridge to ever come down the pike is the std. .223 Rem.

[ 06-25-2003, 11:01: Message edited by: sscoyote ]

What can I expect for distance and accuracy at said distances with these three mentioned calibers? Are all three about the same as far as trajectory and long range shooting? Or is there one that is a better long range caliber then the others? Becuase I will be looking at longer ranges hopefully. I will also target shoot with this caliber to so 500 plus shots are not out of the norm here. Will all three serve me well as far as the distance is concerned?

I can't think offhand of any varmint that can't be dispatched with a .22-250. For all practical purposes it'll do what a .243Win will do at pretty much the same ranges. There's no sense in splitting hairs here. To me a .260Rem. is out of the question as a varmint caliber. It's not going to reach much further out than the other two choices. I use both the .22-250 and the .243 for varmint, but rarely require the .243 if truth be known. The 7mm Mag. can be a varmint caliber if that's what you decide to use, but I think we're talking "practical" calibers here. Ammo is readily available, which separares it from the .220Swift. The .223 can't touch it in spite of a lot of hype saying it can. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I don't know if you would ever need to use this rifle to deer hunt with but, around here that would mean .243 or 6mm Remington. I like the 6mm but you would probably be better off with the 243. If you're sticking strictly to varmints the various .22 centerfires are the right choice.
Jeff

Of course the perfect varmint calibre exists. And anyone that doesn't agree that its the 22-250 is wrong.

Embalmer,

Of the 3 cartridges you listed the 22-250 would be my pick.

In regards to your original question "Best varmint caliber?", the 22 CHeetah MK 1 blows the 22-250 away by leaps and bounds but you didn't want a wildcat. Most 22-250's are good to around 400 yards and after that the bullet gets swallowed up.

I have been using a 22 CHeetah MK 1 for 4 seasons now and just last week killed a woodchuck at 675 yards. I have killed 47 woodchucks in the last 3 weeks using the 22 CHeetah MK 1. They shoot extremely accurate and are very predictable. As far as load development, the classic load is 44gr of IMR 4064 pushing a 52gr bullet at 4280 FPS (out of my rifle). The flatness at which it shoots and the range offers far more then any 22-250 ever will.

Since you plan to reload anyhow, why not get a varmint cartridge that can reach out.

Have fun killing those varmints,

Don

[ 06-25-2003, 21:48: Message edited by: Groove Bullets ]

Put me on the bandwagon for the .22-250. Have fun!!!

I own a nice and highly accurate 308, so I do not need this rifle for use on dear of hogs which would be the only other hunting I would ever do. I can use the 308 for anything above the varmint class of critters so I am not particularly interested in a do all cartidge. Although if the 243 is strong enough to take a hog easily I would like the idea of that. Being able to carry a lighter rifle in 243 instead of my tank of a 308 for hogs would be a wonderfull added bonus. So can the 243 take hogs? I know almost any caliber can take almost any game with a perfectly placed shot. So what I am asking is the 243 legal as far as minimum caliber for feral hogs (if there is such a thing as minumum for hogs) and is it strong enough to take a hog with a less then perfect shot? Cuz lord knows I am less then a perfect shot especially when the adrenalin starts pumping!

Just more added info to fuel the debate/fire/discussion, I would like to be able to take 500 plus shots if the opportunity arose. Not that I would. But I would like the possability to if the need arises.

So do the 243 and 260 have the distance the little 22-250 does?

I am like Cal and shoot both the 22.250 and the 243. Never shot the 260. I started out with the 243 because I had little money and wanted something for both varmits and deer. Now I have both and I would go with the 22-250 myself.

Regards,

Greg

berneticg@shaw.ca

quote:

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Whisky for my men and beer for my horses

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Currently have 22-250. Will be rebarreling to 6mm BR soon as the barrel is shot out. Even though I really like the 22-250 and have had it for years, friends say the 6mm will resist the wind more, is easier on the brass and barrel, and is more accurate. I'm giving up a little velocity for better accuracy, I'm told.
Ron

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a 22 CHeetah MK 1? A 52 grain bullet at 4200+ fps is impressive.

I am a 260 owner...

However I think in terms of flexibility and economy and brass availability, I am for the 223.

Take out economy, low cost of brass, and concern about barrel life ( as compared to the 223) then the champ is the 22/250.

The 243 offers something more than the 22/250 only if you need more bullet weight. You will end up sacraficing velocity, and will have a more arched trajectory.

That is my opinion. However not wanting to make up my mind, I own 6, 223s; 3, 22/250s, and 5, 243s & one 6mm Remington, although I am having one with a big bull barrel, built on a Mauser action. Now the 260s, I only own 3 of those, and only one is a Heavy barrel. Of course lets not consider the 3 6.5 x55s, and the one 6.5 x57 ( 6.5 Roberts). Real undecisive guy huh? ( Eh< for the Canucks like Savage49494 and Gatehouse)

Just re read a couple of the other posts.

As far as range and velocity, I can attest to the following, chronographed out of my guns:

260: 90 gr TNT Speer/ 3500 fps.( 4064, 44.4 grs)

243; 75 gr HP, Hornady/ 3400 fps.

6mm Remington: 75 gr Hornady / 3700+ fps ( real Hot load) don't use it much, recommend others work up toward that if even thinking about trying it.

22/250: 40 gr Nosler BT/ 4450fps ( RL 7/ 34 grs)

223; 45 gr Sierra/ 3650 fps ( 28 grs of Benchmark)

all in 26 inch heavy barrels/ 4064 used on the first 3 loads, have to check my log for the exact charges. RL 15 gives close to the same performance, little less velocity but not much.

You may want to look into that new 223WSSM load from Winchester. Short, fat case and you can buy the ammo over the counter. I think USRAC is the only manufacturer of the guns at this point but if the cartridge proves out, you should find other companies chambering for it as well. You could always have an action built for it by a custom maker if you really wanted to go first class.

rootbeer, I just shot my homemade custom 223WSSM last night. With unturned brass and Hornady 75 gr. amaxes it shoots groups under .5" at 100, AVERAGE. It runs 3300 fps without even starting to breath hard....... Factory loads at at least as accurate, but they only carry the lighter weight bullets.

500 yards? I think so! . Dutch.

500 shots are a lot of shots if you're talking about in one day. I have taken 500 but I was using several rifles. If you wait a minute between shots -which is minimum- 500 shots would take somewhere around 8 or 9 hours. When there are sage rats as far as you can see, its hard to wait a minute between shots. But the alternative is to re-barrel after every hunt.

I just got back from South Dakota and shooting varmints last night.

We were shooting in a continuous breeze which my wind Kestrel 4000 meter put at almost exactly 18 mph. Based on this and the chronograph 100 grain SHP 6.5 out of my .260 at 3270fps, the recommended hold by the Horus Software on my PALM was 3.2 moa or nearly a full mil-dot.

After I got the wind doped, the first shot kills became almost routine. The guys with the .22 Centerfires were guessing.

My M700 in .223 stayed in it's case and properly so. The rules of the hunt limit me to 100 grain bullets. The 139 Lapua scenar would have increased results on those 300 yard plus shots that were low probability ones in this environment.

D.

[ 06-27-2003, 00:59: Message edited by: DMCI* ]

260, 260, 260 everywhere. I don't think it is a good choice at all. Heavy bullets, medium velocity...all put together it is a recepie for a ricochet.

For medium to long range varminting the .22-250 is the best choice, closely followed by the .223. If in a heavy barreled bolt gun, the .22-250 is it.

Some will argue economy, the .223, but that really only applies to factory ammunition. When it comes to handloads I don't think 10 extra grains of powder will break the bank.

There is another alternative however, and it is the 6m/m Remington. For those of us living out here on the wind-blown high plains, sometimes the 22's don't cut the mustard.

packrat

ONe of the main reason I want aneveryday caliber and not a wildcat is becuase I shoot left handed. For me to find a decent factory offering in a left handed heavy brl is a pain in the ass. And I do not want to have to go buy a new rifle and have work done on it before I can even shoot it, like rechambering/barreling for another caliber.

The choices I have in factory lefties are the three I mentioned. That is why I have those three to choose from. Now once I get bored with this rifle or shoot out the brl then I can have it chambered in something more interesting. But I am ictching to get out there and go varminting. So I just want to start with something I can actually get my hands on from the factory first.

I will absolutly build a 6.5-284 eventually. But that will be down the road. That is most likely be what I chamber this rifle in once I shoot it out.

But for now I am limited in what I am willing to spend on this project. It is either a Savage or a Remy lefty with a heavy brl. No other main manufacturer offers what I want for a decent price. Every other maker wants upwards of $1000 for the lefty heavy brl. Or it is a custom order.

So for now I am stuck with a left Savage/Remy in 22-250, 243, or 260.

And at this point I am stuck choosing between the 243 and 22-250.

What is the MAximumum effective range of both the 243 and 22-250? That will probably make my decision there is there is one clear choice.

DMCI, Impressive looking rig. I see the manufacturers have learned something, as the twist in your rig is 1 in 8. Most foreign rigs in 6.5 calibre are also 1 in 8 twist. This puts it squarely in the big game territory in my book, as the twist will readily handle the heavy 6.5 bullets.

The .264 Winchester had a 1 in 9 twist, and generally, failed miserably with heavy (160's) bullets. As I recall some would stabilize round nose bullets, others would not. Colt used a 1 in 10 twist in their rifles, making the situation even worse.

However it may sound, my diatribe isn't intended to be entirely negative, as I do own two 6.5's. I liked the M96 Swede so much, I bought a M38 to keep it company. Of all the post war imports, this cartridge is one of the best. The 6.5m/m is a great calibre for deer.

packrat

Packrat:

Generally, I don't get into this level of detail, but since you appear to be interested in some of the minutiae of this particular exercises, I will elaborate on this equipment a little.

Starting from the ground up:

Bench: Varmintmasters

Rest: Formerly made by and acquired from Sinclair International.

Rifle: Totally custom, assembled by Mr. Rick Freudenburg, Marysville, WA from the following components.

Pre-War Model 70 Action
Lilja .264 Fluted barrel, 1 in 8 twist, six groove, stainless
McMillan Prone Stock with Freudenberg Modifications.
Jewel two stage trigger set for about 1 pound.
US Optics SN-3 6-30x58 Super High Res scope with 35 Tube and lit reticle, Ergo Objective
US Optics Picatinni Rail and 35mm Rings.

Hat by Stetson, Boots by Tony Llama. Belt buckle, well you know....

[ 06-27-2003, 19:21: Message edited by: DMCI* ]

DCMI*, Thanx. Deifnetly not the run of the mill p dog thumper!

To start a whole other thread of debate, I'm partial to Nocona boots myself...

What are the MAX effective ranges of the 22-250 and the 243?

Hello Embalmer,

I would think the practical effective range of the .22-250Rem. is about 300yds. Possibly 50 yards more for the .243Win. You'll hear some shooters claim 500 or more yards, but these are exceptions. Most of us are simply not that good a shot to reach out that far.
Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Embalmer:

I have to disagree with Mr. Sibley ( for once as I rate his experiences from other posts as coming from a man whom has been around the block a couple of times and value his prospectives).

I shoot 22/250, 243 and 6mm Remington, along with the 6.5s ( x 55, x 57, 260) and also the lowly 223s. 500 yds is not at all a problem, for the round to shoot those distances and do so accurately. If you have a set up like DMCI, then they are chip shots.

Practice will make one a good shot with those calibers at that range easily. However, one has to have the ethics. If you DO MISS, do you know where your bullet is going? Know what is beyond as all of those have a range of well over 3 miles.

If you desire to shoot at 400 and 500 yds with either, practice. If wind is a factor, I recommend not getting so hung up on velocity as using heavier bullets and learn the trajectories of the round and your loads.

One good way is if you do have a place you can safely set out Targets ( Milk Jugs full of water for instane ) at 300-400-500 yds, work your way out. Make sure you have a scope with a target turrent on it. If you don't have one, if it is a Tasco, Simmons, Burris etc, you can get a target turrent mount for $27.50 from Stoney Point available at Cabelas or Midway. It put a lot of them on my scopes and they inexpensively turn them into different animals.

if you don't need explosions when the prairie dogs etc are hit, then use target bullets. I have participated in competition shoots at 600 yds. It is amazing what you can hit with a scope just on 6 power. I watch other guys shoot circles around me and they are shooting AR 15s with open sites.

Experience will breed familiarity. And keep away from hot loads, because once you get out there, the difference in the trajectory is really minimal.

You ought to see what some of these old timers accomplish at long range with a 45/70! that has a trajectory like me throwing a bowling ball!

My range goes to 600 yards. And my scope is a Lupy 6.5-20x50LongRangeM1 So I am ok for optics and the abillity to practice at long range. I just need the rifle to practice with now

Several weeks ago I had 3 visitors from a 1000 yard bench rest club join myself and a buddy on an all day woodchuck hunt. They used a 7mm WSM, 243 and other calibers. They used Sierra MK bullets. We had a 15 to 20 MPH crosswind that day. They did the shooting in the morning and after lunch I set-up my bench, front rest and rear bag and my 22 CHeetah MK 1. They wanted video of kills. Since the fields around here are so flat it was difficult, at best, to get accurate distances to the woodchucks. I had one chuck, located by one of the others in the group, along the edge of a the field. It was right next to a wood lot so it was easy to obtain a distance. The measured distance was 635 yards. Once I located the woodchuck with the scope set at 6 power I then zoomed in at 24 power. The video camera's were set up on the unsuspecting woodchuck. When all was set I adjusted my elevation for the distance, got on the "chuck" and killed it. After replaying the video one could see the contrail of the bullet as it traveled to and hit the woodchuck. This woodchuck was shot with a 15 to 20 MPH crosswind - one shot kill.

Anybody that thinks light bullets at high velocity get blown all over the place in wind has never used them.

I think the 1000 yard shooters that day would agree that the 22 CHeetah MK 1 outperformed their heavy bullets.

In total about 25 woodchucks were killed that day.

Don

Embalmer,

Effective range of .22-250 not sure but I can tell you that with a factory 700 VS .22-250 with Sierra 55 gr. HPBT and B&L 6-24X I have recorded groups of 3.75" at 500 yards. As others have indicated, how well you can read the wind or at least be able to adjust for misses quickly will determine how successful you will be.

[ 07-23-2003, 03:20: Message edited by: Byron ]

Best varmint calibre = .25/06

Don,

If I may be so bold as to hijack this for a second.

In the pics of your "Cheetah" - what make of front rest is that?

TBC

TBC,

Bald Eagle

Don

I am left handed also. But; on a varmint rifle as long as the stock doesn't have a raised cheekpiece ( and none of the standard companies does ) A right bolt will make no practical difference. If you choose the savage get the laminated stock as the synthetic is pitiful. I shoot a right hand short action remington varminter ( modified ). Buy the basic rifle; then blueprinting; skim glass bedding; custom barrel etc can be added on as the money comes. Your dead right on the scope; the 6x20x50 30mm efr scope is the ticket for a varmint rifle. My two cents says don't underestimate a 6mm ppc or a 6mm remington benchrest. The longer the distance beyond 350 yds. the more the BR has an advantage; but you have to go to vld bullets to get it. 500 yard pokes with a 6mmppc are not out of the question. Anything under 300 yards and a "tuned" 6mmppc is downright scary. Another option would be a gently used benchrest rifle from Benchrest central classifieds, Gunsamerica classified, or shooter's corner. Just avoid right bolt left port. The other option is a cooper.
My 2 cents.