Can any of you guys give me some suggestions on the best varmint caliber for a high wind area? I'm leaning towards the 6mm Remington, thanks in advance.

The 6mm calibers are a really good choice for wind. The 6mm Remington or the 243 work well with the larger availability of guns and brass going to the 243.

I agree, i'd try to drive an intermediate BC bullet at high velocity, or a higher BC bullet at intermediate velocity, unless u're attempting very long-range, in excess of 500-600 yds. Then it's onto the VLD's, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by CXL:
Can any of you guys give me some suggestions on the best varmint caliber for a high wind area? I'm leaning towards the 6mm Remington, thanks in advance.

CXL,

My first choice would be the 25-06.

My second choice would be the 25-06.

My third choice would be the 25-06.

My fourth choice would be the ..........never mind, you get the idea.

Jim

PS: I sure am glad the boobs, I mean Fjold is back.

Thank you kindly for your advice, gentlemen. I've read and been told by some people that the 204 Ruger and 17 Remington drift less than a 223, any truth to that you guys know of?

I have heard similar things. It's based on less time in flight. Don't know if there's any truth to it. If there's much wind, all are gonna get blown around!

Thanks for your help guys, I just pounded seven jackrabbits with my '06 and Speer 110gr.HP varminters, three were at full gallop, what fun!

My experience with my 204 compared to my 223, 22-250AI, and 220swift is that the 204 drifts more in the wind. You notice it more with a head wind, as opposed to side winds. I personally would not use my 204 in windy conditions greater than 15mph.

A 20 cal 40 grain bullet flying at 3900fps with a bc of .27

is better then,

a 22-250 shooting a 50 grain bullet at 3800fps with a bc of .25

Pretty obvious the 20 cal will win!

Thanks guys, I found a real handy ballistics calculator for drift at www.biggameinfo.com the 6mm Rem., 260 Rem and 30-06 are all very tough to beat. According to the chart, the 204 drifts less than the 17's and 22's.

This is also a good tool..

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj/traj.html

A 6mm Rem is a great long range outfit, but if it is not on a long action, then the 243 is an equal....

Also not mentioned is the 250 Savage or the 257 Roberts with 75 grain V maxes.... out of the 257 you can get about 3500 to 3500 fps out of the VMax....

As compared to the 25/06 with that bullet, you burn a lot more powder and don't get much more velocity, but get a lot more barrel wear...

I think the 25/06 is a better candidate if you are shooting heavier bullets, like in the 100 grain range and above...

The 257 Roberts in a long action with the 75 grain V Max, is a great choice in 25 caliber...

I shoot several 6.5 mms chamberings also, and the various bullets at 100 grains and under are some dandy long range shooting choices in the wind also...

With a 26 inch barrel, 3450 to 3500 fps is possible with a 100 grain bullet out of the 260 and the larger cased 6.5 mms...6.5 mm is a darn good long range wind bucker...you can get 3100 to 3200 fps out of a 120 grain bullet with a long barrel in 6.5 mm with out doing the magnum route....

if you don't need explosive red mist on prairie dogs, there are a lot of good long range match bullets available in 6.5 mm, that will out buck the wind better than anything smaller.. in the 130, 140, 142, & 144 grain sized.. from Sierra, Lapua and Berger... that is why those 1000 yd bench shooter guys love that bore size!

This is a comment adressed to Nortman.

I would agree with you, based strictly on ballistics that the 204 should out perform the 223, however I found that not to be the case on windy days.

I was shooting Prarie dogs in on a 5 day hunt where the wind would vary from 5 to 30 mph (no gusts), comparing the 40 grain hornadays with my 22-250AI with 50 grain Nosler BT's @ 3800fps.

I can't explain it, but I found that in a head wind of 20mph at ~ 250 yards I was seeing the 204 bullets drop ~ a foot below target which surprised me. My 22-250 was hitting them fine at this range.

When the winds dropped down to below 10 mph. I didn't see any differnce in the perfomance of the two guns. I thought I was seeing things, but my dad noticed the same thing.

I do see that Nosler puts the BC of the 204 40 gr at .239 with a SD of .137 and a 50 gr .223 at .238 with a SD of .142. Maybe the sectional density has something to do with it, more than what I had read in the past. This experince kind of confused me.

Anyway, the 204 was the best (Ruger #1) out of the box at a 100 yards that I have ever bought. Averaged .4" 5 shot groups.

quote:

I can't explain it, but I found that in a head wind of 20mph at ~ 250 yards I was seeing the 204 bullets drop ~ a foot below target which surprised me. My 22-250 was hitting them fine at this range

Then your gun was not sighted in correctly. A bullet with a higher BC that is moving faster than a bullet with a lower BC will NEVER drop faster. Simple ballistics. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, that is not the case.

I rechecked the zero on the 204 on the range when the wind wasn't blowing and it was fine. I had set it up for a zero at 200 yards and it was still there. I only noticed this affect in a 20 mph head wind.

Also as I stated in the previous post, when the wind dropped to ~ 10mph my "zero" returned to what I had expected it to do.

Hornaday lists their BC as .275 and Nosler lists it at .239. From what I have observed, and if everyone agrees that it is strictly A BC thing, then I question whether the published data on the BC of the 204 is correct.

quote:

I question whether the published data on the BC of the 204 is correct.

As well you should.

"Ballistic Coefficient" has become a sales tool of the bullet manufacturers. They realize that shooters like to see a higher "listed" ballistic coefficient, just as women like to fit into a dress size with a smaller number, whether the dress is any smaller or not.

Listed BC's are always suspect. For instance, Nosler lists their 55 grain 6mm Ballistic Tip as having a higher BC than their 55 grain .224 Ballistic Tip. A fatter bullet of the same weight has a higher BC? Doubtful, to say the least.

Generally speaking, bullets with similar shapes will have BC's proportional to their SECTIONAL DENSITIES.

Another erroneous assumption is that the BC is automatically inversely proportional to wind drift. In actuality, bullets of the same FORWARD BC may have different LATERAL profiles and thus be more or less subject to being accelerated laterally to their flight vector.

The bottom line is that published drop and wind drift tables are only theoretical approximations, sometimes based on inflated coefficient factors. Only actual shooting under field conditions will allow you to ascertain ballistic behavior.

And yes, for typical varmint shooting under field conditions, the 6mm's are typically the best compromise for shooting under windy conditions. Larger calibers may exhibit less wind drift, but they also come with the penalty of greater recoil, noise, heat, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

I question whether the published data on the BC of the 204 is correct.

As well you should.

.....

The bottom line is that published drop and wind drift tables are only theoretical approximations, sometimes based on inflated coefficient factors. Only actual shooting under field conditions will allow you to ascertain ballistic behavior.

.....

Guys,
Its not east but is possible to run a check on a bullets BC!

You'll need a chrono and a calm day.

• Shoot a group for trajectory at say 100, 200, 300 and 400 (if possible).
• Measure the vertical rise/drop at each distance.
• Plot this on a chart- also plot the calculated trajectory from a ballistic program using manufacturer's BC, the height of your scope and the chroned velocity.

If the BC is close, the two plots should also be close together. If they aren't, refigure the trajectory with the ballistics program adjusting the BC up or down to make the 2 plots match. Then compare the manuf. listed BC to the adjusted one you found to best fit your shooting trajectory.

PS: Helps to get the groups shot then take an aspirin or 2 before crunching the numbers!

Some people should pay as much atention to their shooting as to listed number's. We have become a nation of hair splitter's. Seem's that the only way some people can tell what their bullet is doing is to know the B.C. Here's two truth's: 1) At some point, no matter what the velocity and B.C. are, your gonna have to compensate by raising the sight's. 2) No matter what the velocity or the B.C. is, if the wind is blowing, at some range your gonna have to compensate for it.

Don,

That is too much common sense and all too technical for some guys to comprehend...

As I use to like the saying...

'I didn't ask you how to build a watch, I asked what time is it??"



IN the field, I have noted a heavier bullet, requires less compensation for wind drift...

Also shooting from a prone position at a prairie dog, there seem to be less worry about wind drift the closer to the ground my shot stayed from my barrel to distant prairie dog..

However, I wasnt' trying for the 500 yd and 1000 yd prairie dog shooting clubs...

but I have taken several at 425 to 450 yds, with a lowly 223, shooting highly untrendy 46 grain Win HPs, which are pretty unaerodynamic..
and it didn't take 10 shots to figure out the wind drift...

but the critics would say I was either lying or just plain lucky....couldn't have all been that maybe someone did spend a lot of time trying to outsmart the wind, the bullet, the rifle and themselves.. before pulling the trigger...

Ray: you could also calculate BC by placing one cronograph at the muzzle, and one at 100 or 200 yards, and measure the drop in speed. This will also tell you the BC.

Here is my rule of thumb: Practicing in the wind is the only way to learn to dope the wind. That infers, of course, you need a place to practice.

The actual drift of a bullet, within reason, is not that important - being able to dope the wind is. As Don said above, at some point you need to learn how to do it.

I'm not a ballistics expert so I'll skip all the heated debate stuff and just make a couple of suggestions.

I have and use both the .257 Roberts and .25-06 and think highly of both of them for coyotes. The .25-06 isn't very good if your wanting to save fur though. I use the 75gr Hornady HP in the Bob and push it a bit. It does pretty good at handling the wind and still doesn't damage pelts to bad at all. Many don't exit.

In high wind the winner will be a high BC bullet with enough SD to carry the speed. It won't be as fur friendly. The Berger VLD in the .257" is very good, and I will at some point be trying some of the Wildcat Bullets for the .25-06 as they have a rebatted boattail design that looks very promising. I don't expect I'll be skinning them though.

If your serious about longer range and doping the wind you should check out a 6.5mm in something from the Grendel up to a 6.5-284. I believe they'll out-do any "varmint" caliber with no fudge.
The trade off though, as has been mentioned is the higher recoil, consumtion of powder, muzzle blast, and possibly shorter barrel life.(depends on ratio not just caliber) Nate

quote:

Originally posted by CXL:
Can any of you guys give me some suggestions on the best varmint caliber for a high wind area? I'm leaning towards the 6mm Remington, thanks in advance.

Lots of opinions and advice. I'll through in my own based on years of long range rock chuck shooting in eastern Oregon. In varmint calibers using varmint bullets I've used the .222, .223, .243, 6mm, 25-06 and 6.5-06. Your lean toward the 6mm Rem is correct. with the varmint bullets available the 6mm bullets provide the best BCs and terminal balistics out to 600+ yards. The better BCs correlate to less wind drift given equal velocities. With a 6mm Remington in a 26" barrel the Sierra 85 gr HPBT at 3450 fps is very efficient and deadly out to as far as practical to shoot. A couple other of the BT bullets in that same weight range do as well. As previously stated build the 6mm Remington on a long action. For a varmint rifle only I prefer a 1-12" twist barrel. I also prefer a 12 lb+ rifle so recoil does not push me off target and I can see my own hits or misses. The recoil of the 6mm Remington is mild enough to allow this.

Larry Gibson