I am in the process of making a strict varmint rig. This gun will be used on Ground hogs in the east and also yotes. I got a 26" barrel for my encore in 22-250, I was pretty well set on this caliber untill I got thinking about 500-600 yard shots. Is the 22-250 enough? or should I maybe step it up to a 243...would really like to stay with the 22-250 for I have all the reloading components for that already. Also what kind of glass do you recomend. I have a great deal on a leupold VXIII 4.5-14X50 that I am pretty sure I am going to get. Is this enough to reach out to 500yards plus?

Hello redgar7mm,
No question the bullet from your 22-250 will reach the 500 yard line, but how accurate will it be is the question and a lot of that depends on the bullet itself and the twist in your barrel. Most likely your barrel is a 1/12 or 1/14 for the lighter bullets and higher velocity. Velocity sells for he mfg.'s but is not always the best arrangement.
In any case, have seen folks w/ sporting rifle barrels, slow twist, light bullets, high velocity, use their rifles at 600 yard matches and actually some do very well so all in all you could have a good varmint hunting rifle. Just have to try it out. Not sure where you are, but find a long range facility or large open field and mark it off and give a try. Suggest you find the heaviest bullet it will stabilize and gives you an advantage in bucking the wind.

As for the optics you mention, will work very well indeed for it is high quality and will serve you well. Find someone with a scope in the high twenties plus in magnification and take a look down range on a hot, muggy day. Not good. Mirage on hot muggy days is a big detrement and you certainly do not need to magnify it. In any case, best of luck and once you find the right load, you are in business!!

The first question is, how much shooting are you actually going to do at 500-600yds? With an electronic caller, you could cut that distance in half. I use both the .22-250 and the .243 on prairie dogs and coyotes while shooting on the Colorado high plains. Your .22-250 is probably a 1-14" twist; great for 40-55gr bullets, but nothing heavier for longer range. Mine has a 1-12 (rechambered .223 bbl) that handles 60-63gr bullets and keeps them stable at the longer range.
On the other hand, I use 75-87gr bullets in my .243 because it bucks the wind better and provides more killing power way out there.
You have to make the decision on what range is most likely, how much shooting you'll do each day (remember recoil?), and what tickles your fancy.

redgar7MM

I shoot PD regularly at 500 plus yards with my 22-250. The long confirmed shot todate is 565 yards. I have a 6 X 20 scope onboard but I'll have to tell you my experience says as soon as it warms up much you're going to be down around 12 to 14 power anyway. Early on in the day when it's cool the high powers will be useful.

In the wind however I switch over to 6MM it will just buck the wind much better than the 22-250. Every place I know of that has PD's has wind. The recoil on the 6MM is almost going to double the recoil of the 22-250.

With little wind inside 400 yards my work horse on the PD fields is a Remington .223 VSSF with a Leupold 4.5 X 14 X 40. Long confirmed kill with this gun is 480 yards but it has a slow twist and I only use 50 gr. bullets in it.

Something that has always bothered me is reading on the internet that the range of the .223 is 200 yards and the range of the 22-250 is 400 yards.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
The 22-250 has within 50 yards, slowed down to .223 muzzle velocities.

I have got 4127 fps with a .223 and 33 gr Vmax.
To get 50 yards on that, a 22-250, 220 Swift, or 22 Cheetah would have to do over 4500 fps. They can probably do that, but will only gain 50 yards.

quote:

Nothing could be further from the truth.
The 22-250 has within 50 yards, slowed down to .223 muzzle velocities.

I'm not sure what loads your talking about. But my .223 is about 3400 fps using a 50 gr. V-Max. My 22-250 with the same bullet and Benchmark is 3900fps. It has a MV of 3435 fps at 100 yards?

4500 fps is realistic with a 40 grain bullet, like a V Max or Ballistic tip, or Sierra HP in a 22.250.........

If you aren't concerned about brass life, I have hit 4750 fps with a 40 grain bullet...pressure is up there evidently at 4750 fps... but people individually can decide what they want... brass life or high velocity.. myself, I prefer the brass life side of the equation...

cheers
seafire

Remember AssClown?
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp.../331108533#331108533
He disappeared from AR in Sept 2005, but not before divulging some info previously not available to the gun culture.
With Von Misses calculations, he determined that for 806 Tempered C26000 cartridge brass:
1) A Mauser case head [1892 7x57 begat 22-250] would fail at 76,577 psi internal pressure, ~65ksi to the brass.
2) A .223 case head would fail at 86,427 psi internal chamber pressure, ~ 65 ksi to the brass.

Entering that into Quickload for a 26" barrel and asking for the optimum powder at those pressures and bullets we get:

50 gr. Vmax: 22-250, 39.5 gr. 748,........ 4,186 fps
50 gr. Vmax .223, 23.7 gr. 5744, ............3,861 fps
-----------------------------------------
difference from Quicktarget = 61 yards

40 gr. Vmax 22-250, 38.5 gr. H322,......... 4,513 fps
40 gr. Vmax .223, 25.9 gr. W296,.............4,268 fps
-----------------------------------------
difference from Quicktarget = 35 yards

33 gr. Vmax 22-250 39.6 gr. H322,.......... 4,848 fps
33 gr. Vmax .223, 27.8 gr. W296, ............4,623 fps
-------------------------------------
difference ~ ~ 25 yards


What does it all mean?
Not much
But the 22-250 advantage over the .223 happens with heavier bullets, and yet they put the fast twist in .223s and slow twist in 22-250s

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
But the 22-250 advantage over the .223 happens with heavier bullets, and yet they put the fast twist in .223s and slow twist in 22-250s

That never made alot of sense to me either. Many cartridges seem to fall into the black hole of barrel twist.

I guess it's just history. The 5.56NATO (and subsequent .223 Remington) was designed in the 1950s as a military cartridge and loaded to higher psi. The 22-250 was designed in the 1930s as a varminter. Light bullets moving FAST. Back in the '30s there wasn't 500 different .224" bullets to choose from either.

If you told some one back in the day you were loading 75-80g bullets in your 22-250, they probably would have laughed at you. And then asked you where you got the bullets...

Tnekkc: I agree with you whole heartedly! Not only on the internet do you read the 223 is only capable of 200 - 250 yards on Varmints but in countless magazine articles I have read over the years!
This is part of the reason I no longer subscribe to ANY blather filled monthly periodicals!
I personally have killed MANY Varmints past 400 yards with my 223's and have personally coached at least 5 newbie Varminters into making the "400 yard club" with their and my 223's!
It is simply a matter of range judgement and hold-over! The bullets from 223's have plenty of gusto even out to 500 yards - way more than is needed to kill your average Varmint!
Like Mr. Johnson relays 480 yards is real world to "us" and our 223's! It can be done and its FUN!
I am not sure where many of the internet and magazine types get their "experiences" - if indeed they actually have ANY!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

You may want to consider a fast twist 22-250 with 75gr A-Max bullets. I have a heavy barrel 223 24" on a AR-15 that has shot .3 grooups. I also have a 22-250 in a 1/7 twist and it will shoot under .5" at 200 yards. These bullets work well out to 700 yards. The Ar will shoot out to 500 yards. Pick a good optical system. My Ar has a 10X IOR scope with a MP-8 reticle. And I like it.

I use a remington 700 vssf with 37.5 grns rel 15 with a 55 bal tip mv 3866 and took a woodchuck at 820 yards a month ago try that with the 223 and 55 grn bullets

My experience is not as extensive as most of you guys but, I feel that a 600 yard shot with a 22-250 using a 55 grain bullet is a do-able shot. If you know the rifle well enough you could possibly reach further. I have personally made shots out to & probably over 500 yards with my 22-250 on prarie dogs. The velocity that I am see from my rifle is not nearly as inpressive as some I have seen listed in this thread. I do not have my notes with me but, I am seeing around 3000 - 3100 fps from Nosler 55gr Ballistic Tips & IMR3031. I am still in the early stages of load development for my rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by fireball10x:
I use a remington 700 vssf with 37.5 grns rel 15 with a 55 bal tip mv 3866 and took a woodchuck at 820 yards a month ago try that with the 223 and 55 grn bullets

That sounds like a pretty healthy load. But all my documentation shows that to be at least 2 full grains over max. If you have the documentation for that load in a manual share it with us. It might be worth a try.

Fireball 10X: Is your Remington VSSF a 220 Swift or a 22-250?
No I won't try an 820 yard shot with any of my 223's or any of my 22-250's or 220 Swifts for that matter!
Using a 200 yard zero and your bullet and your velocity just a cursory glance at one of my loading manuals ballistic chart shows a drop for it of 289.08" at 1,000 yards so I am guessing you had to hold over about 180" to make your shot there at 820 yards?
Wow!
I am gonna head over and run your numbers through an online ballistic computer to get a more exact drop figure - just out of curiousity - back in a bit!
I am back and one ballistic program shows a drop of 134.0" there at 820 yards! Less than I thought it would be but I used a high B.C. for info entry on the ballistic calculator. Anyway thats still an 11 foot 2 inch drop!
Nice shot Fireball 10X.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hi yep it's 153 inches of drop sited for 100 yards bal co .267 and 18.32 inches high at 100 I had a 5-8mph crosswind and was aiming 4ft to the left took 2 shots this is the longest shot i ever made with a 224 diam bullet.The speer manual has a load with 37 grns rel 15 with a 55 grn I'm using 55 bal tips and cci br primers 37.5 grn rel 15 at 3866 fps I'm using a ced chronograph. I'm a half grn higher but the gun likes it with no pressure signs.but work up to this load every gun is not the same.I took 4 more chucks that day over 600 one at 725.But redgar7mm for coyotes at 500 and 600 I'd use the 243 cals has alot more power the 22s with 55s at 500 has 2124fps left and 551 lbs energy at 600 1849 fps and 417 lbs the 243s on the other hand depending on cal say a 243 win with 70 grn at 3500fps has about a 100 more ftlbs at those ranges step up to say a 240 mag or 6-284 or a 6AI and shoot 87grn vmaxs started at 3650 at 500 you have 2466 fps and 1175 ftlbs at 600 you have 2264 fps and 990 ftlbs they also have less wind drift depends on what your doing and how often you will be shooting at those ranges and you have to know the gun really good for those shots I"m building a 6mm ai for long range chucks was using a 257 weatherby mag hvy barrel and thats a good cal also

I use to take some long rang shots but with my reload a Nosler 50 Gr SB at 3,800 ft/sec the ten MPH cross wind will give me about 17 inches of wind drift at 400 Yds, at 450 Yds its about 21 inches. With the rifle sited one inch high at 200 Yds the bullet drops about 20 inches at 450 Yds. I dont take shots beyound 400 Yds with my 220 Swift rifle that puts five round in a 1/2 group at 100 Yds.

Hi Tuck 2 I shoot long range alot and adjust the scope for every shot, I have all the bullet drop tables and wind data on the side of the stock for the load I'm using on all my chuck guns I use a leica 1200 rangefinder and have wind meters but I watch the mirage mostly the wind meter gives me a rough idea.I have a 220 swift also in a ruger m77 hvy barrel.

If I were going to make a varmit rig for 500 plus I would go with a 6mm of some type or a 257 of some type.

That said I have seen plenty of varmits killed past 400 with a 223 and 22-250 my farest shot with a 223 on a PD was 497 lasered. I saw my hunting buddy kill one at 646 lasered with his 223.

I do see a diffeants in bullet effect going from 223 to 22-250 then up to a 243 on up. the 223 blows p-dogs up good to 250 or so. the 22-50 adds about another 100 to that.

The 6mms and 257s blow then ups easly to 600 as long as you can hit them.

The 223 and 22-250 as no trouble killing them out there but they don't red mist out there.

I do see a differants in windage the 6mms do buck it better.

So make your choice or buy a couple of each and use the one you want.

6mmBR!.. shoots 55 grains BT and V-max at 3800fps.

That trumps the 22-250, and with higher BC.

75 grain V-max at 3300fps.. BC of 0.33


Or, why not a 223AI?
40 grain at 4000fps
50 grain at 3700fps
75 grain at 3000fps

A 75 grain A-max with a BC of 0.430 will shoot plenty flatt out o 600 yards!

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
6mmBR!.. shoots 55 grains BT and V-max at 3800fps.

That trumps the 22-250, and with higher BC.

75 grain V-max at 3300fps.. BC of 0.33


Or, why not a 223AI?
40 grain at 4000fps
50 grain at 3700fps
75 grain at 3000fps

A 75 grain A-max with a BC of 0.430 will shoot plenty flatt out o 600 yards!

Or you could just get a 6mm Rem...

I have a 6br and a 6mm Remington set up for Vermin. The 6MM Remington has a 10 twist barrel and I shoot the 87 Vmax at 3450 FPS with great accuracy. My 6BR has a 12 twist barrel and loves the 75 Vmax, spits them out at 3300 fps and will shoot in the .3's all day and in the .2's when I really focus (I am not a benchrest shooter) If I had to choose one rig over the other it would be tough? The 6BR is ultra accurate, and an accurate gun is always a fun gun. The 6MM remington hits coyotes with the 87 Vmax like they have been struck with lightning!